Generational belief discontinuity and the rights of the grandparents

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

One of the problems that I see with what's going on there is that it sounds like there has been a direct effort at undermining his authority and credibility as a parent already. That can be really dangerous, and I would try to address how unacceptable that is, if you can.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

The problem is that interpersonal relationships always take second place to the religious belief system. Everything is expendable in the battle to maintain the integrity of beliefs and ensure their survival to another generation. I know, because I have the same shit with parents. They identify themselves by their beliefs - they no longer see themselves as Human, they see themselves as existing solely for the propagation of the belief. Other relationships are completely disposable at worst, luxuries at best. It is their directive to make sure the beliefs are not lost or compromised, at all costs, even human ones.

So there is no "authority as a parent," if as a parent you are not propagating the belief. By failing to live up to your one and only purpose for existing, you are effectively giving up any claims you might otherwise have had to that child's upbringing.

[Freeky]

It might be that Ippie's parents are more reasonable than that, and will listen if it's spelled out WHY their behavior is unacceptable.  Anything is possible.

[Elder Iptuous]

I would say that my parents are more reasonable in a sense.  I don't think they would see their relationship with me as expendable without pushing them into thinking that, (e.g. pressing whether they would be as faithful Abraham, and bind me for sacrifice, or something)

you have my sympathies, Vex.  the same story separated only by degree can be an entirely different story emotionally.  That is to say, i cannot imagine that you bear your parents no ill will.  i certainly would, were i in your boots.
I have no such enmity.  i love my parents, and am thankful for how lucky i am to have such good folks, and it only breaks my heart to know that i break their heart.  i know it's puerile to think, but it almost seems easier in a sense, to have the ability to think 'its them.  its all them, and theyre fucking this up.'

I would say that they haven't consciously attempted to undermine my authority.  rather, they think that my abandonment of their beliefs without adopting some other structure is simply an aimless drifting, willfully ignorant, a foolish rebellion.  therefore, they are simply giving my kids some direction that i am unable to give.  (and that the holy spirit will eventually touch my heart and bring me back around to, anyways.  because they pray for me every night. which i sincerely believe that they do.)

Now for the happier side!  it seems to me that the two ways this could have been handled, is a cut that only widens and our relationship bleeds out over the rest of my life, or that the platelets of love would start the process of forming a nice beef jerky scab delineating the line between their faith and our continued harmony as an extended family.
This conversation went down on Saturday, and just today, i got txt msgs from both on trivial unrelated items.  ('check this out, aint it cool' from dad, and scheduling question from mom)  i think that's a pretty good sign that everything will be better than catastrophic.
Further, i think the intensity of the conversation, and the fact that i clearly am drawing a line will scare them into backing the fuck off with religion in order to avoid said catastrophe.

[LMNO]

I'm glad to hear it won't be a messy suppuration wound.

[deadfong]

Luke 12

⁵¹ Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! ⁵² From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; ⁵³ they will be divided:
father against son
    and son against father,
mother against daughter
    and daughter against mother,
mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law
    and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.

I think some believers see this as a justification for placing their beliefs above their relationships, that this is a prescription, rather than prediction.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Personally I'd wait til they kids find out about there being no Santa Clause and then just slip in "Oh yeah, y'know Jesus and God? Same thing."

[Elder Iptuous]

I'm glad to hear it won't be a messy suppuration wound.

Thanks, LMNO. (and i owe you 50 cents!)

Personally I'd wait til they kids find out about there being no Santa Clause and then just slip in "Oh yeah, y'know Jesus and God? Same thing."

i've had that occur to me as well, but they've already been exposed to enough that it's a muddled mess anyways.

We say our prayers before meals. "god is great, god is good, and we thank it for our food. HALLELUJAH!" (well, my wife slips in 'she' sometimes)  I do this, partly out of just tradition, partly because i want them to be mindful that having good food to eat is something to be thankful for, and partly because i like it when they go over to the grandparents and they are the first to start praying.  it's a guilty pleasure on my part that the boys insist on holding hands around the table, which my folks never did, and then yell "HALLELUJAH!" loudly at the end.  they have asked why we say 'it' rather than 'he', and i told them because god isn't a man.  god is everything.

We read stories every night.  we've gone on some jags where i read mythology stories for children.  this was intentional, not only because the stories are badass, but because i wanted them to build up a long list of gods in their little skulls that we don't believe in.
I've pointed out that there's tons of gods that different people have believed in at different places and different times, and they all have different names.  i answered their questions in such a way as to lead them to ask what the name of 'God' that my folks believe in is, so that i could answer, 'Yaweh'.

I'm sure i'll tie in the children's legends (santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, etc. ) somehow...