On Hyphenated-Americans.

[East Coast Hustle]

Not to butt in, but that would be extremely weird.

Yeah, it is.  It's very fucking weird.  In the space of 7 days, I have had two people I've known for years essentially state that I am in fact a second-class human.  Then they get pissed because I got pissed, because I have contradicted the high epopts of blanket fart huffing.

Let's just try this one on for size:

YOU ARE EXCLUDED AND EJECTED FROM YOUR HERITAGE BECAUSE YOU ARE A YANKEE PIGFUCKER.

Yeah, you don't get to have any fucking roots.  You don't get to have any link to your ancestors.  You have been judged and found wanting.  PASSPORT ENTITLEMENT OR GTFO, YANK.

Jesus fucking christ, dude. You're seriously picking a fight that isn't there. I mean, it's your thread so trash it if you want, but the INSTANT RAGING MASSIVE BUTTHURT at the slightest perceived slight just seems pointless.

[Faust]

I'm a hyphenated arbitrary two points in the sand.

As to Irish-Americanism here is the official Irish stance: Your lands may be different but your money is Green, cousin.

[Faust]

I was born in Greece, Lived in London, Now Live in Ireland, my mother is Irish, My grandfather and great grandfather are respectively Canadian and Egyptian.

Do I use Hyphens for all those.

What happens if any of those annex or get annexed by an another country?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I was born in Greece, Lived in London, Now Live in Ireland, my mother is Irish, My grandfather and great grandfather are respectively Canadian and Egyptian.

Do I use Hyphens for all those.

What happens if any of those annex or get annexed by an another country?

Actually, the annexation is an interesting question. I supposed it depends on how well one destroys the other's identity.

You could use hyphens for all of those, I imagine, if you identify strongly with them. But what order do you place them in? Are you an Irish-Greek or a Greco-Hibernian? Usually what we do over here is pick one and tack it on to the word American. A lot of Irish-Americans here are just as much Italian, or Polish or something. We all think of my drummer as Italian, even though he's only a quarter. He just looks and acts like an Italian-American. That's what he thinks of himself as. Calling him an Irish-Lebanese-Scottish-Italian-American is a bit cumbersome.

[Faust]

I don't really identify with any of them. The place I have lived in longest is Ireland and I carry an Irish passport but I don't FEEL Irish any more then any other place I've been.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I don't really identify with any of them. The place I have lived in longest is Ireland and I carry an Irish passport but I don't FEEL Irish any more then any other place I've been.

"Faust" should be sufficient then.

And, really, so should "Twid" but Irishness is part of being a Twid. Actually, I might describe myself as a Twid if it comes up when meeting someone new, regardless of what the question happens to be.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I actually think about death more often than my ethnicity. Maybe I should start calling myself a Morbid-American.

[Faust]

I guess, if nationality was just the equivalent of personal expression and fashion I would be happier.

Irish people don't view me as Irish, and UK people do. Both with EQUAL disdain. Nationality is something I naturally mistrust and judge people on for identifying with it. Not because there is anything inherently wrong with nationality, but patriotism is a swear word to me, and so are the idea of the Us/Them division.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I can see that. Especially in europe where lines can be less blurred. Over here it means what parade you go to and what you eat with your family. Its an interesting little factoid. Because at the end of the statement youre still an -american.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Here's a thought for you; because of my heritage I hold several different identities (as do most of us, actually, in one form or another) but the most difficult to reconcile one is of being both an American, and not-an-American, by virtue of the fact that Natives are not exactly members of the same political/social system as other Americans. So in a way I often feel like I'm inside the outside, looking in. Which probably doesn't make any sense.

I just don't feel like I belong to America, exactly. It wasn't made FOR me, it was made DESPITE of me, and I have to live in it whether I want to or not because it plonked its fat ass right on top of where I was living, and then it fucked me and made babies and that's how I was born.

Native is a kind of exception to me, at least until I get my mind around more things.

If you're of Irish ancestry and raised in the south, you don't get the culture. (Boston Irish seem to know a lot of the culture.) So, (and this is ill-thought-out, I know, but I'm still hashing things.) So you're ethnically Irish but seem less Irish (to me), at least until you've learned that green beer is frowned on and visited the mother country a time or two. I guess I'm seeing degrees of "being something."

But an Irish person in the south has opportunites, they have to go out of their way more than Boston Irish, but the opportunities exist. OTOH, part of the Native experience often seems to be NOT getting the culture, because genocide/blood quantum rules/fucked up adoptions/etc.

[Faust]

Here's a thought for you; because of my heritage I hold several different identities (as do most of us, actually, in one form or another) but the most difficult to reconcile one is of being both an American, and not-an-American, by virtue of the fact that Natives are not exactly members of the same political/social system as other Americans. So in a way I often feel like I'm inside the outside, looking in. Which probably doesn't make any sense.

I just don't feel like I belong to America, exactly. It wasn't made FOR me, it was made DESPITE of me, and I have to live in it whether I want to or not because it plonked its fat ass right on top of where I was living, and then it fucked me and made babies and that's how I was born.

Native is a kind of exception to me, at least until I get my mind around more things.

If you're of Irish ancestry and raised in the south, you don't get the culture. (Boston Irish seem to know a lot of the culture.) So, (and this is ill-thought-out, I know, but I'm still hashing things.) So you're ethnically Irish but seem less Irish (to me), at least until you've learned that green beer is frowned on and visited the mother country a time or two. I guess I'm seeing degrees of "being something."

But an Irish person in the south has opportunites, they have to go out of their way more than Boston Irish, but the opportunities exist. OTOH, part of the Native experience often seems to be NOT getting the culture, because genocide/blood quantum rules/fucked up adoptions/etc.

The Irony being that Irish people tend for the most part to be quite a racist people. They would not consider anyone born outside of Ireland Irish.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah thats pretty true. I hear a comment or two whenever im over. One time it was pretty overt and directed at the bartender.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I guess, if nationality was just the equivalent of personal expression and fashion I would be happier.

Irish people don't view me as Irish, and UK people do. Both with EQUAL disdain. Nationality is something I naturally mistrust and judge people on for identifying with it. Not because there is anything inherently wrong with nationality, but patriotism is a swear word to me, and so are the idea of the Us/Them division.

1st generation, off the boat paddys have a reason for all this - they remember the blarney and guiness and fuck the pope/queen

2nd and subsequent generations - WTF?

Strikes me there's a lot of bullshit going around this. Like some american tourist will get chatting to me in a bar and they'll proudly announce that their great great  grandparents were scottish. As if that means fucking anything. At all. Like they have a pass to "fit in" or some bullshit. Truth is they don't fit in. They have a funny accent and they've never gotten drunk on buckfast. Do I hold it against them? Fuck no. They have as much right to be on a given acre of this solar system as I do.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not to butt in, but that would be extremely weird.

Yeah, it is.  It's very fucking weird.  In the space of 7 days, I have had two people I've known for years essentially state that I am in fact a second-class human.  Then they get pissed because I got pissed, because I have contradicted the high epopts of blanket fart huffing.

Let's just try this one on for size:

YOU ARE EXCLUDED AND EJECTED FROM YOUR HERITAGE BECAUSE YOU ARE A YANKEE PIGFUCKER.

Yeah, you don't get to have any fucking roots.  You don't get to have any link to your ancestors.  You have been judged and found wanting.  PASSPORT ENTITLEMENT OR GTFO, YANK.

Jesus fucking christ, dude. You're seriously picking a fight that isn't there. I mean, it's your thread so trash it if you want, but the INSTANT RAGING MASSIVE BUTTHURT at the slightest perceived slight just seems pointless.

I was referencing something said in another thread.  Pretty sure I linked to it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

At the risk of derailing, when thinking about the politics of exclusion, what about Pinealists?

They call themselves Discordian, and I want to compartmentalise and exclude them from "My" Discordia.

Because fuck those guys. But aren't I doing the same thing we're saying is wrong?

I don't say they aren't Discordians.  Just that they're different Discordians than I am.