On Hyphenated-Americans.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here's a thought for you; because of my heritage I hold several different identities (as do most of us, actually, in one form or another) but the most difficult to reconcile one is of being both an American, and not-an-American, by virtue of the fact that Natives are not exactly members of the same political/social system as other Americans. So in a way I often feel like I'm inside the outside, looking in. Which probably doesn't make any sense.

I just don't feel like I belong to America, exactly. It wasn't made FOR me, it was made DESPITE of me, and I have to live in it whether I want to or not because it plonked its fat ass right on top of where I was living, and then it fucked me and made babies and that's how I was born.

Native is a kind of exception to me, at least until I get my mind around more things.

If you're of Irish ancestry and raised in the south, you don't get the culture. (Boston Irish seem to know a lot of the culture.) So, (and this is ill-thought-out, I know, but I'm still hashing things.) So you're ethnically Irish but seem less Irish (to me), at least until you've learned that green beer is frowned on and visited the mother country a time or two. I guess I'm seeing degrees of "being something."

But an Irish person in the south has opportunites, they have to go out of their way more than Boston Irish, but the opportunities exist. OTOH, part of the Native experience often seems to be NOT getting the culture, because genocide/blood quantum rules/fucked up adoptions/etc.

Irish-American is a subculture. Being part Irish does not necessarily make you Irish-American. There are subcultures around the country that are distinct enough to be described and named, like the German-American communities in Wisconsin and the Italian-American communities in New Jersey.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are actual American subcultures with these hyphenated names, which are distinctly different from being of Italian or Irish descent. They also have little to do with visiting the mother country, unless that's an intrinsic part of the subculture.

[Salty]

Huh, that's interesting. I've become aware recently of such a community but could not understand it, I assumed they're just racists, until now.

There's all kinds of Nordic stuff here, Nordic Ski, Finlandia Hall, Sons of Norway. They're really active together, especially with cross country skiing, they go bananas for that ski shit. I refer to them as Ski Jerks because snowshoes are more badass and I enjoy petty, needless rivalry.

I could not figure it out, but it makes sense if people build a subculture based on heritage. Thanks for pointing that out.

It IS elaborate LARPing, kinda.

[P3nT4gR4m]

It's everywhere, in all walks of life and at all levels. Reason? Basic monkey psychology, I guess. The popular (and totally fucking wrong, IMO) opinion seems to be that you can only be doing it right if everybody else is doing it wrong.

The kayak community is no different. On one side you've got people jumping in ultra-modern carbon or polythene boats, and getting their freak on touring around, exploring, expedition or extreming and on the other you have "greenland paddlers" who use boats styled after the original sealskin hunting boats and paddles that look like lollipop sticks and they get real anal about being able to do all 32 Inuit rolls and shit. And there are arguments aplenty, all stemming from one side telling the other they're doing it wrong.

Some twat in a weird costume that looks just like the sealskin thing the eskimos used to wear tells me I'm doing it wrong? What the fuck does he even know about what I'm doing? He's part of some historical reenactment society and I'm an athlete. Who's doing it wrong?

Neither of us, from where I'm sitting. Why is it so fucking hard for everyone else to accept this?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Huh, that's interesting. I've become aware recently of such a community but could not understand it, I assumed they're just racists, until now.

There's all kinds of Nordic stuff here, Nordic Ski, Finlandia Hall, Sons of Norway. They're really active together, especially with cross country skiing, they go bananas for that ski shit. I refer to them as Ski Jerks because snowshoes are more badass and I enjoy petty, needless rivalry.

I could not figure it out, but it makes sense if people build a subculture based on heritage. Thanks for pointing that out.

It IS elaborate LARPing, kinda.

Try thinking about it like this; a group of people from the same culture who all speak the same language emigrate to an area, often a remote area, where they are strangers in a strange land. They understand each other and have the same food, holidays, and customs, so they form a community. Generations pass, and the community evolves and is influenced by the surrounding culture, and perhaps they all now speak the language of the dominant culture around them, but retain customs, cuisine, and celebrations, and continue to primarily associate with and marry within their group.

That isn't LARPing, that's how ethnic subcultures are formed.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Neither of us, from where I'm sitting. Why is it so fucking hard for everyone else to accept this?

AND P3NT WINS THE INTERBUTTS.

Also, an Irish person really has no grounds to be offended by the idea of Irish-Americans.  It's none of their business what Americans call themselves.  I mean, if we're applying their standard.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I agree with all of this. There dominant culture also tends to shun new immigrant populations so they have to stick together. And as they evolve into the hyphenated american their customs become regional celebrations for outgroups too. Hence the asians wearing the green. Another side of that is once an immigrant population becomes well established in an area new immigrants from the same point of origin favor those areas. Hence dad coming to boston for temporary work and meeting mom. And aer lingus flying directly out of boston and new york.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Huh, that's interesting. I've become aware recently of such a community but could not understand it, I assumed they're just racists, until now.

There's all kinds of Nordic stuff here, Nordic Ski, Finlandia Hall, Sons of Norway. They're really active together, especially with cross country skiing, they go bananas for that ski shit. I refer to them as Ski Jerks because snowshoes are more badass and I enjoy petty, needless rivalry.

I could not figure it out, but it makes sense if people build a subculture based on heritage. Thanks for pointing that out.

It IS elaborate LARPing, kinda.

Try thinking about it like this; a group of people from the same culture who all speak the same language emigrate to an area, often a remote area, where they are strangers in a strange land. They understand each other and have the same food, holidays, and customs, so they form a community. Generations pass, and the community evolves and is influenced by the surrounding culture, and perhaps they all now speak the language of the dominant culture around them, but retain customs, cuisine, and celebrations, and continue to primarily associate with and marry within their group.

That isn't LARPing, that's how ethnic subcultures are formed.

Ah, like Cajuns! Thanks, Nigel. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

"You don't have the right to wear the traditional clothing of my people"

"You don't have the right to sing Give Me Shelter, cos you're Justin Bieber"

"You don't have the right to open an Indian cuisine restaurant, cos you're Norwegian"

"You don't have the right to eat meat cos you're squeamish about killing animals"

"You don't have the right to call yourself Punk cos you're fifteen and/or Green Day"

"You can't attend this cultural festival cos you're the wrong colour"

Trollbait!

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of people who aren't your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have the right to pick up bits and pieces of any culture and tradition, mix them up with other shit, add your own personal invention and call it whatever the fuck you damn well please.

If you take the hump with this, then that's your bitch - go fuck yourself while you're getting over it.

What we're talking about, to a greater or lesser degree is "Racial Purity". What Hyphenated-Americans and, to the same degree, hyphenated-anythings are, is a bunch of fucking mongrels, arguing from on a stance of racial purity.

Does it get anymore retarded than than?

I'm not sure but I hate to say "never" on issues of retardedness.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"You don't have the right to wear the traditional clothing of my people"

"You don't have the right to sing Give Me Shelter, cos you're Justin Bieber"

"You don't have the right to open an Indian cuisine restaurant, cos you're Norwegian"

"You don't have the right to eat meat cos you're squeamish about killing animals"

"You don't have the right to call yourself Punk cos you're fifteen and/or Green Day"

"You can't attend this cultural festival cos you're the wrong colour"

Trollbait!

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of people who aren't your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have the right to pick up bits and pieces of any culture and tradition, mix them up with other shit, add your own personal invention and call it whatever the fuck you damn well please.

If you take the hump with this, then that's your bitch - go fuck yourself while you're getting over it.

What we're talking about, to a greater or lesser degree is "Racial Purity". What Hyphenated-Americans and, to the same degree, hyphenated-anythings are, is a bunch of fucking mongrels, arguing from on a stance of racial purity.

Does it get anymore retarded than than?

I'm not sure but I hate to say "never" on issues of retardedness.

This is kind of the correct motorcycle.

While I agree that people have the RIGHT to do all of these things, I have the right to laugh at Justin Beiber for attempting to do the Rolling Stones.  I have the right to laugh at white people wearing dashikis.  I have the right to laugh at damn near anything people do in an attempt to be someone else.

But you are correct about cultural purity being a wee bit too close to racial purity.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Huh, that's interesting. I've become aware recently of such a community but could not understand it, I assumed they're just racists, until now.

There's all kinds of Nordic stuff here, Nordic Ski, Finlandia Hall, Sons of Norway. They're really active together, especially with cross country skiing, they go bananas for that ski shit. I refer to them as Ski Jerks because snowshoes are more badass and I enjoy petty, needless rivalry.

I could not figure it out, but it makes sense if people build a subculture based on heritage. Thanks for pointing that out.

It IS elaborate LARPing, kinda.

Try thinking about it like this; a group of people from the same culture who all speak the same language emigrate to an area, often a remote area, where they are strangers in a strange land. They understand each other and have the same food, holidays, and customs, so they form a community. Generations pass, and the community evolves and is influenced by the surrounding culture, and perhaps they all now speak the language of the dominant culture around them, but retain customs, cuisine, and celebrations, and continue to primarily associate with and marry within their group.

That isn't LARPing, that's how ethnic subcultures are formed.

Think there's such a thing as cultural speciation? Like at some point (maybe when the hyphen's dropped, or the pidgin becomes a creole) does the subculture become a wholly unique culture? Are Cajun or Gullah their own thing?

[P3nT4gR4m]

I laugh at most shit. I don't even think that's part of the same issue although maybe it's related. I don't feel the need to campaign to have my government ban those people from making me laugh, I guess is what I'm talking about. On a side note, laughing in their face about it is rude.






... even when I can't help it 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

On a side note, laughing in their face about it is rude.

So is farting in an elevator, and if you say you don't do that, I'm going to laugh in your face.

TGRR,
Lights that bastard up.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Every people and their associate culture is a mutt anyway. In the case of the irish were a mix of gael scandinavian saxon french and whatever. Irish culture isnt the same as it was when we kidnapped that patrick dude since were not in the habit of animal sacrifice or owning slaves and the such. The idea of purity in any form is ridiculous since culture tends to be assimilative or it stagnates. Simultaneously people tend to resist change so it happens slowly. But i imagine more irish  americans drink guinness than the irish do. Irish people drink stuff like carlsberg. I drink guinness because i like it. I also drink sam adams cuz i like it. I drink pbr if its priced appropriately.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Every people and their associate culture is a mutt anyway. In the case of the irish were a mix of gael scandinavian saxon french and whatever. Irish culture isnt the same as it was when we kidnapped that patrick dude since were not in the habit of animal sacrifice or owning slaves and the such. The idea of purity in any form is ridiculous since culture tends to be assimilative or it stagnates. Simultaneously people tend to resist change so it happens slowly. But i imagine more irish  americans drink guinness than the irish do. Irish people drink stuff like carlsberg. I drink guinness because i like it. I also drink sam adams cuz i like it. I drink pbr if its priced appropriately.

In other words, the culture being emulated stopped existing in Ireland some time ago.  So it moved from one place to another.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

"You don't have the right to wear the traditional clothing of my people"

"You don't have the right to sing Give Me Shelter, cos you're Justin Bieber"

"You don't have the right to open an Indian cuisine restaurant, cos you're Norwegian"

"You don't have the right to eat meat cos you're squeamish about killing animals"

"You don't have the right to call yourself Punk cos you're fifteen and/or Green Day"

"You can't attend this cultural festival cos you're the wrong colour"

Trollbait!

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have as much right as anyone else to take an interest in the customs and traditions of people who aren't your ancestors whether you bear any resemblance to those ancestors whatsoever, or not.

You have the right to pick up bits and pieces of any culture and tradition, mix them up with other shit, add your own personal invention and call it whatever the fuck you damn well please.

If you take the hump with this, then that's your bitch - go fuck yourself while you're getting over it.

What we're talking about, to a greater or lesser degree is "Racial Purity". What Hyphenated-Americans and, to the same degree, hyphenated-anythings are, is a bunch of fucking mongrels, arguing from on a stance of racial purity.

Does it get anymore retarded than than?

I'm not sure but I hate to say "never" on issues of retardedness.

At what point does respect come into play, though? I'm thinking here of the gay bar which is plenty friendly to straight people who wanna come in sit and have a drink, but more than a little off-put by weird ass gawkers who's sole purpose is to come in and call dude's "girlfriend," while they giggle and take pictures of their safari into gay culture.