Safe Spaces?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

One other "safe space" thing I've done was a mommy support group where you were allowed to say things about how much being a mom blows, which I think is an important one because moms don't get a lot of safe spaces for that kind of thing. It's a voluntary, temporary agreement: go in, bitch and moan and get it out of your system, then go back to the real world where people will call you on your bullshit and also judge you for every little thing you do ever. I can see how that can ultimately result in fart-huffing, but I think as a temporary thing hiding out in blanket forts every once in a while can be a positive experience.

I see it as a control mechanism and a fart huffing device.

I can see it being very useful in therapy, particularly for recent victims. Done outside of a medical environment, I see it at best as amateur psychology hour, and at worst, a method of telling people to SHUT UP and accept whatever is put in front of them.

Never ever go roaming on Tumblr.

Or, if you do, at least screenshot the outrage for the rest of us.

Will do.  I love me some amateur psychology gurus.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is stunting people's ability to speak freely,

The only objection I have is that the above never solves anything.  Ever.  It generates internal policing by self-appointed "community guardians" who spend their time looking for violations.

The farther you go from free speech, the closer you come to The Monkey.  And The Monkey only understands pack mentality, and their climb in status in said pack.

In addition, silence implies consent in the minds of most people, especially people who have something to validate.  Whereas I can see an exclusive support group (mothers only or even young mothers only) as being beneficial, an environment where criticism cannot be offered even by your peers (group-wise) has pretty horrific possibilities.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I also have an issue with the concept of "safe", but it's kinda complicated and far more complex than the usual "man up, sissy" objection, so I think I need some time to write it.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

My main issue is that it tends to lead to some people getting totally caught up in their self-victimization and making them even less able to function outside the safe space. They log off the internet, go outside, and spend the entire time spazzing out because someone looked at them funny or laughed at their hairstyle.

But pointing this out, however gently, gets you thrown out of the safe space.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My main issue is that it tends to lead to some people getting totally caught up in their self-victimization and making them even less able to function outside the safe space. They log off the internet, go outside, and spend the entire time spazzing out because someone looked at them funny or laughed at their hairstyle.

But pointing this out, however gently, gets you thrown out of the safe space.

Which is what I was trying to say above, concerning stunted freedom of speech.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

My main issue is that it tends to lead to some people getting totally caught up in their self-victimization and making them even less able to function outside the safe space. They log off the internet, go outside, and spend the entire time spazzing out because someone looked at them funny or laughed at their hairstyle.

But pointing this out, however gently, gets you thrown out of the safe space.

Which is what I was trying to say above, concerning stunted freedom of speech.

Sorry, went to get a sammich in between starting my post and finishing the post, and didn't see you'd already made the point.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My main issue is that it tends to lead to some people getting totally caught up in their self-victimization and making them even less able to function outside the safe space. They log off the internet, go outside, and spend the entire time spazzing out because someone looked at them funny or laughed at their hairstyle.

But pointing this out, however gently, gets you thrown out of the safe space.

Which is what I was trying to say above, concerning stunted freedom of speech.

Sorry, went to get a sammich in between starting my post and finishing the post, and didn't see you'd already made the point.

No worries.  It was a perfect illustration of what I was trying to say.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

I've always heard of "safe spaces" in the context that it is not a physical space, but a communication environment.

For example, a forum where it is not ok to be a man and post about getting emotional and crying would not be a safe space for that communication because people would mock and belittle that.

There are forums where being openly female or gay is not safe because people will harass you.

Safe spaces, in that context, exist both online and in face-to-face interactions, but they're not tied to a geographical location.

The Red and Black Cafe advertises itself as a safe space.

[P3nT4gR4m]

If you are "safe" in the context of safe spaces then you are vulnerable. Do safe spaces nurture vulnerability?

I was in a safe space, like an IRL safe space this one time. Well, a couple times actually, I'm a slow learner Initially it helped but I very quickly became institutionalised. Coming out the artificial safe space, into the real world again became harder and harder the longer I was in there.

[The Johnny]

I work in a place where people diagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenia can meet up and have discussions/conversations:

*They are stigmatized daily if not frequently because of their diagnosis in school/work/relationships.

In that place they can feel safe or, have a "safe space" to talk about things that would be minimized in any other place, like "OH, that makes you feel bad? You such pussy" or that would reinforce the stigma "What do you mean? You're crazy, you shouldnt be allowed to live in X way."... but it also isnt all flowers and sunshine, because they can discuss between each other what is reasonable and what isn't, like, being called out on what is actually just their delirium or paranoia rather than facts.

So ideally a "safe space" should provide support and feedback, while not creating a cult that validates any and all thoughts and behaviours.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I work in a place where people diagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenia can meet up and have discussions/conversations:

*They are stigmatized daily if not frequently because of their diagnosis in school/work/relationships.

In that place they can feel safe or, have a "safe space" to talk about things that would be minimized in any other place, like "OH, that makes you feel bad? You such pussy" or that would reinforce the stigma "What do you mean? You're crazy, you shouldnt be allowed to live in X way."... but it also isnt all flowers and sunshine, because they can discuss between each other what is reasonable and what isn't, like, being called out on what is actually just their delirium or paranoia rather than facts.

So ideally a "safe space" should provide support and feedback, while not creating a cult that validates any and all thoughts and behaviours.

Best way to do that, in my experience as a member of one of these groups, is a "closed group".  IE, people affected by whatever it is, and the counselors.  Nobody else.  You restrict access, not speech.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've always heard of "safe spaces" in the context that it is not a physical space, but a communication environment.

For example, a forum where it is not ok to be a man and post about getting emotional and crying would not be a safe space for that communication because people would mock and belittle that.

There are forums where being openly female or gay is not safe because people will harass you.

Safe spaces, in that context, exist both online and in face-to-face interactions, but they're not tied to a geographical location.

The Red and Black Cafe advertises itself as a safe space.

Either:

1.  It's in a dangerous neighborhood, or

2.  They have found a label to associate with, that doesn't cost them any money but causes people to connect them to whatever cause they themselves espouse.

It's cynical as hell, but...

APPROVED

[The Johnny]

I work in a place where people diagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenia can meet up and have discussions/conversations:

*They are stigmatized daily if not frequently because of their diagnosis in school/work/relationships.

In that place they can feel safe or, have a "safe space" to talk about things that would be minimized in any other place, like "OH, that makes you feel bad? You such pussy" or that would reinforce the stigma "What do you mean? You're crazy, you shouldnt be allowed to live in X way."... but it also isnt all flowers and sunshine, because they can discuss between each other what is reasonable and what isn't, like, being called out on what is actually just their delirium or paranoia rather than facts.

So ideally a "safe space" should provide support and feedback, while not creating a cult that validates any and all thoughts and behaviours.

Best way to do that, in my experience as a member of one of these groups, is a "closed group".  IE, people affected by whatever it is, and the counselors.  Nobody else.  You restrict access, not speech.

This actually happens in an open space where there is relatively numerous transit and anyone can get closer to participate or just listen, also, part of it is a live radio transmission.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I work in a place where people diagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenia can meet up and have discussions/conversations:

*They are stigmatized daily if not frequently because of their diagnosis in school/work/relationships.

In that place they can feel safe or, have a "safe space" to talk about things that would be minimized in any other place, like "OH, that makes you feel bad? You such pussy" or that would reinforce the stigma "What do you mean? You're crazy, you shouldnt be allowed to live in X way."... but it also isnt all flowers and sunshine, because they can discuss between each other what is reasonable and what isn't, like, being called out on what is actually just their delirium or paranoia rather than facts.

So ideally a "safe space" should provide support and feedback, while not creating a cult that validates any and all thoughts and behaviours.

Best way to do that, in my experience as a member of one of these groups, is a "closed group".  IE, people affected by whatever it is, and the counselors.  Nobody else.  You restrict access, not speech.

how do you do that on the interbutts? I'm thinking that some of the Safe Space thing might be simply a reaction to that dilema?

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I work in a place where people diagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenia can meet up and have discussions/conversations:

*They are stigmatized daily if not frequently because of their diagnosis in school/work/relationships.

In that place they can feel safe or, have a "safe space" to talk about things that would be minimized in any other place, like "OH, that makes you feel bad? You such pussy" or that would reinforce the stigma "What do you mean? You're crazy, you shouldnt be allowed to live in X way."... but it also isnt all flowers and sunshine, because they can discuss between each other what is reasonable and what isn't, like, being called out on what is actually just their delirium or paranoia rather than facts.

So ideally a "safe space" should provide support and feedback, while not creating a cult that validates any and all thoughts and behaviours.

Best way to do that, in my experience as a member of one of these groups, is a "closed group".  IE, people affected by whatever it is, and the counselors.  Nobody else.  You restrict access, not speech.

how do you do that on the interbutts? I'm thinking that some of the Safe Space thing might be simply a reaction to that dilema?

The same way TCC did. Impose mod law and throw out the dissenters. Which was totally a knee-jerk reaction to someone coming into their forum and shitting all over it. But it was so dead for so long it had taken on a kind of niche mentality.