Boy Legos and Girl Legos

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

[Pergamos]

you are thinking in binary terms, for a star, and gender is a continuum for some trans* folks. Dude in a dress that wants to be called he? probably a crossdresser, still a dude.

Kids will tell you and there are plenty of cases of kids that will tell their parents before puberty. Making an assumption that this kid is definitely going to be gender non-conforming/ trans because they prefer certain toys is bullshit.

i HATED wearing makeup, dresses, skirts until I was about 14, and honestly, I only wear makeup when I can be arsed to and feel like it.

Definitely is the important word.  I never said the boy playing with the girly legos would definitely be trans, I said it increases the likelihood.  That's a hard talk to have and I'd want as much warning as possible.   If I didn't have to explain to the kid that it is ok too, and makes life easier, but that preparation wasn't wasted because I can use it to talk to him about how to treat trans folks (the way I would have wanted him treated if he had turned out to be trans)  It also is a binary as far as a parents concern goes.  Either the kid is normal enough, gender wise, that I don't need to worry about it, or the kid is different enough from standard gender norms that he or she is going to be given hell from his or her peers. 

[AFK]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

Hmm. I'd hope marketers were open to all sorts of feedback, if only to better adjust to (hopefully) shifting market trends.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

you go after both prongs of the fork.

I wasn't suggesting that this is an either/or solution.  However your kids don't live in a vacuum, other peoiple aren't as media savvy, or watch what their kids take in media wise because they don't see how it matters. Changing representation is one part of it, and educating parents on HOW different toys foster different brain development is the other side.

I doubt a single parent working way too many jobs has as much time to be involved with their kids.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

Hmm. I'd hope marketers were open to all sorts of feedback, if only to better adjust to (hopefully) shifting market trends.

exactly. Lots of toy retailers in the UK are changing to the type of play rather than gender because of pressure from parents. shifts in culture come from media AND people.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Pink Legos are not the problem. Again, there's nothing wrong with gendered toys, on the condition that nobody's MAKING kids conform to that. THAT'S where the problems come in, assholes calling boys "sissies" and trying to limit girls to frou-frou.

Everything doesn't have to be "gender neutral". Some things just naturally ARE, like original Legos, but when you take it to the wall you get something like this:





Then everybody looks fucking MORONIC.

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

you are thinking in binary terms, for a star, and gender is a continuum for some trans* folks. Dude in a dress that wants to be called he? probably a crossdresser, still a dude.

Kids will tell you and there are plenty of cases of kids that will tell their parents before puberty. Making an assumption that this kid is definitely going to be gender non-conforming/ trans because they prefer certain toys is bullshit.

i HATED wearing makeup, dresses, skirts until I was about 14, and honestly, I only wear makeup when I can be arsed to and feel like it.

Definitely is the important word.  I never said the boy playing with the girly legos would definitely be trans, I said it increases the likelihood.  That's a hard talk to have and I'd want as much warning as possible.   If I didn't have to explain to the kid that it is ok too, and makes life easier, but that preparation wasn't wasted because I can use it to talk to him about how to treat trans folks (the way I would have wanted him treated if he had turned out to be trans)  It also is a binary as far as a parents concern goes.  Either the kid is normal enough, gender wise, that I don't need to worry about it, or the kid is different enough from standard gender norms that he or she is going to be given hell from his or her peers.

Some trans* children and teens overcompensate for gender identity confusion though, and go more stereotypically towards their birth assigned gender so why not read up on this shit anyway whatever the kid prefers?

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Pink Legos are not the problem. Again, there's nothing wrong with gendered toys, on the condition that nobody's MAKING kids conform to that. THAT'S where the problems come in, assholes calling boys "sissies" and trying to limit girls to frou-frou.

Everything doesn't have to be "gender neutral". Some things just naturally ARE, like original Legos, but when you take it to the wall you get something like this:





Then everybody looks fucking MORONIC.

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

I dunno, they look pretty stylin to me :P

i think the limiting kids to gendered toy assholes probably have some homophobia/ transphobia issues, personally. as i said much earlier upthread that the marketing and social gender roles thing is a cycle that feeds on itself.

a beauty parlour with a rugged pirate and gun turrets sounds glorious though.

[AFK]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

Hmm. I'd hope marketers were open to all sorts of feedback, if only to better adjust to (hopefully) shifting market trends.

Well sure, but the ultimate feedback for them is the feedback that comes in a shade of green.

[AFK]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

you go after both prongs of the fork.

I wasn't suggesting that this is an either/or solution.  However your kids don't live in a vacuum, other peoiple aren't as media savvy, or watch what their kids take in media wise because they don't see how it matters. Changing representation is one part of it, and educating parents on HOW different toys foster different brain development is the other side.

I doubt a single parent working way too many jobs has as much time to be involved with their kids.

But they have impact on the trusted adults who will be watching their kids while they work all of those jobs, AND can make a point to connect with their kids when they do have the time.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

Hmm. I'd hope marketers were open to all sorts of feedback, if only to better adjust to (hopefully) shifting market trends.

Well sure, but the ultimate feedback for them is the feedback that comes in a shade of green.

Sweden has banned ads marketed at the under 12's so the pester pressure wouldn't be such an issue there.

I once watched the Barbie movie with some kids I was babysitting, and I shit you not, barbie had magickal stripper heels.

MAJICKAL. STRIPPER. HEELS.

their mum wasn't that concerned with the media her girls consume really as it's "just kids stuff", and that worried me a little, she's a single mum with depression issues and to be honest, she is an awesome mum but not that media savvy, and gives into pestering by the kids. The girls thought I was odd and listened to "boy" music because I was listening to Pearl Jam and their thinking is already incredibly inclined towards a potentially stifling view of gender, and it saddens me that even at 11 one of them is more concerned with being pretty and thin and popular than smart.  I try and reinforce how smart and not being an asshole is more important when I'm around them which I know my mate appreciates, as well as challenging assumptions about changing names when people get married and various other things as they arise. i may not have kids, or want them but I do try and challenge negative tropes in the kids of people I know as an adult in their environment.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

not enough people are media savvy enough, and kids channels are CONSTANTLY bombarded with gendered marketing.

Turn off the TV.  My daughter sees very little of this because she sees very little TV.  But when she does see it, she has me to help her process it.  And she also gets constant reinforcement and encouragement to follow the paths she wants, regardless of what the TV tells her, or her friends, or anyone else. 


It's called parenting.  Marketers can only get to your kids if you let them.

Are you with your kids all the time? Is your view prevalent in the schools in your area? I agree that an involved parent has better odds of circumventing harmful media messages but societal stereotypes are subtly enforced in pretty much every media format.

Well I'm divorced so no, but ex-Mrs. WHN and I are on the same page on this.  I don't know if my view is prevalent, but the thing is, marketers are doing their job.  Their job is to move units.  Which means you need to be able to advertise in a language those with the purse strings are going to understand.  In other words, they are filling a demand.  It's easy to blame the marketers, bit they aren't going to change so long as they are reaching parents and kids.  If parents didn't want to get things like Lego Friends for their kids, then that product and marketing would dry up fast.


So my point is that I think there are FAR more powerful elements at work that steer a kid to want gendered toys, and to make parents think it isn't a big deal.  So that is the shit you need to change,  Going after the marketers will do jack shit if those mindsets are still there.

you go after both prongs of the fork.

I wasn't suggesting that this is an either/or solution.  However your kids don't live in a vacuum, other peoiple aren't as media savvy, or watch what their kids take in media wise because they don't see how it matters. Changing representation is one part of it, and educating parents on HOW different toys foster different brain development is the other side.

I doubt a single parent working way too many jobs has as much time to be involved with their kids.

But they have impact on the trusted adults who will be watching their kids while they work all of those jobs, AND can make a point to connect with their kids when they do have the time.

not everyone has the time or the energy or health for that. you are sitting in your nice little middle class bubble and prescribing shit that doesn't always exist in reality

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

also lego was fun and wasn't broke, why the fuck did they have to try and "fix" it?

[AFK]

To get the kids who weren't buying and playing with Legos to buy and play with Legos.  The same reason any brand expands product lines.  To win more customers.