Boy Legos and Girl Legos

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

Maybe you are confusing "society says you must have gender identity issues because of the way you act" with "you actually have gender identity issues" ?

How did "I like pink" get confused with "in 6-10 years I will like gay sex"?

Gay and trans aren't the same thing and I never said that a trans person is more (or less) likely to be gay.

"I like pink" = "trans" now?

I call

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I think the outrage is because people love Lego, and essentially want/expect better of them.

And they could have made pink/flowery/girly all they wanted with much less outrage, had they simply integrated the pink/flowery/girly into currently existing Lego themes such as City rather than segregating it into a separate world.

Exactly.

It doesn't look even look like Lego any more—it looks like they hired some cold, calculating Barbie marketers.

And it's worked insofar as to make the company money, at least in the short-term.

[Pæs]

I started scrolling once the blocks of quoting took over the page but did someone really say they would assume their little girl had a gender identity issue if she liked guns?

[Pæs]

Jesus fucking Christ, I accidentally scrolled back up to figure out if I read that all right.

I REFUSE TO EDUCATE MYSELF ON WHETHER LIKING PINK MAKES YOU TRANS BECAUSE MY REAL LIFE TRANS FRIENDS ARE ALL GOOD WITH ME.

MY GAY FRIEND HAS ASSURED ME THAT I AM CLUED IN ON THE SITUATION WITH THE GAYS.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah it appears to be basically I WANT TO SPOUT AN UNINFORMED OPINION FUCK YOU I AIN'T GONNA LARN SHIT. So, ok, that's a valid worldview. Just not one I care about having a conversation with.

[Pergamos]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

Maybe you are confusing "society says you must have gender identity issues because of the way you act" with "you actually have gender identity issues" ?

How did "I like pink" get confused with "in 6-10 years I will like gay sex"?

Gay and trans aren't the same thing and I never said that a trans person is more (or less) likely to be gay.

"I like pink" = "trans" now?

I call

Yes, you do seem to like to troll.  Thanks for admitting it. 

Pixie read my slightly leaning toward as absolute certainty, you seem to just be reading different posts entirely, or maybe making things up.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

Right, and like I said I acknowledge that this product does nothing to improve the cultural preconceptions about gender identity and gender roles. But Lego is soft of damned if they do and damned if they don't here. Either they're preaching at little girls to do things the Girl Way, or they're preaching at everyone else to Stop Telling Little Girls What They Should Be. Being a company that exists primarily to sell toys and make a profit, they are obviously going to behave in a way that makes them money. And in this case, whatever research they did told them that they would make money selling to little girls this way.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" for them to do it this way, only that it isn't Lego's job to tell society what it believes. Society sets the standards, and Lego responds with products that fit those standards, because that's what will make them money. There's a certain cycle there, where society bases its self-image on what's sitting on store shelves, but that doesn't mean it's Lego's job to make the first move.

If it isn't Lego's job to make the first move (love how you facilely abdicated all corporations of any social responsibility, there) then it's ours, by being vocally disgusted with their product and marketing, isn't it?

Yes! Of course! I don't object to the outrage, but I don't understand the tone and the target. I agree it's unfortunate (beyond unfortunate, poor word choice, but bear with me it's late) to be marketing toys by capitalizing on gender-binary thinking when we should be well past that by now. I just think Lego is a symptom of the fucked up culture, not a source of it.

Also this particular topic sort of hits me weirdly because it sounds like "pink flowery girly stuff shouldn't exist because it reinforces stupid stereotypes," and I'd be inclined to agree if it weren't for the fact that this kind of toy is exactly what my own daughter loves, and reinforcing gender stereotypes is the last thing that's allowed in our home. So the argument can't be as simple as that.

no. I am saying that YOU MARKET SHIT ON THE TYPE OF FECKING PLAY NOT BY CONTENTS OF PANCE. YOU DON'T SPEND (AS A COMPANY), ALMOST THE LAST 30 FUCKING YEARS MAKING YOUR AWESOME CREATIVE GENDER NEUTRAL BRAND A FUCKING BOYS CLUB THROUGH MARKETING AND WONDER WHY GIRLS CANNOT DIG IT ANYMOAR.

fuck, watch the vids.

girls deserve MORE than aisles and aisles and aisles of pink shit.. don't like pink, wee lassie? oh, have some lilac. more than shit that gives them shitty body image at increasingly younger and younger ages,  tells them that they are just the supporting role in other peoples lives rather than the lead character in their own epic adventure and reinforces the bullshit of I HAVE TO BE PRETTY OR I AM WORTHLESS.

THAT CULTURE CAN GO FUCK ITSELF.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

HOW ABOUT OUTLANDISH, AND HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY READ SOME NARRATIVES WRITTEN BY ACTUAL TRANS* PEOPLE THAN ASSUME A KID IS DEFECTIVE FOR WANTING TO USE GIRLS TOYS.

I am not saying YOU are sexist. Your assumption and default narrative is. Keep reading.

[Pæs]

Everyone knows that girls only want to play with toys related to raising chillins, looking pretty for the boys or working in the kitchen (commercial or otherwise; lots of cafe legosets).

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Everyone knows that girls only want to play with toys related to raising chillins, looking pretty for the boys or working in the kitchen (commercial or otherwise; lots of cafe legosets).

omg i must be  queeer.

oh wait.

nope.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

http://www.seejane.org/downloads/FullStudy_GenderRoles.pdf

this is an interesting study of film and tv media and how they are by and large male-centric.


only 3% of kids shows are heavily female centric, 39% are heavily male centric.

Our default narratives are not apolitical, dudes.

[Sita]

I will preface this with saying that I only read the first and last page of this thread. But wanted to throw my feeling about gender marketed toys.
It absolutely sucks! There were a great many toys I wanted as a kid, but because my parents couldn't afford them I had to rely on grandparents giving for birthday or Christmas. And if it was 'clearly' a boys toy (Castle Greyskull is an example I still remember wanting very much) there was no way I was getting it.

But oh they had no problem getting me all kinds of dolls and Barbie and makeup and clothes...

[Golden Applesauce]

(skipping most of the thread)

Lego used to be one of the best toy companies at making toys for kids, regardless of gender. They still at least care about it, which is nice.

I remember seeing an old Lego ad somewhere (couldn't find it after 5 min of searching, gave up) which showed a little kid holding a bunch of random blocks stuck together. Caption was something along the lines of "To her, this is beautiful." and some sentences about how very young children enjoy just sticking blocks on top of each other and using lots of colors, as opposed to slightly older kids who wanted to build specific things out of Legos. Basically trying to say that even kids who just build randomly are still exercising all the their creativity bits and not too young for Legos, but their model was a four year old girl in (IIRC) overalls.

Found this old TV ad while searching. Their ads were a lot more gender-neutral when they primarily sold to the parents vs. the children, I think.
http://www.themarysue.com/old-lego-tv-advertisement/
Brother and sister playing with the same set, boy builds a really simple plane, girl builds a much more sophisticated house.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I will preface this with saying that I only read the first and last page of this thread. But wanted to throw my feeling about gender marketed toys.
It absolutely sucks! There were a great many toys I wanted as a kid, but because my parents couldn't afford them I had to rely on grandparents giving for birthday or Christmas. And if it was 'clearly' a boys toy (Castle Greyskull is an example I still remember wanting very much) there was no way I was getting it.

But oh they had no problem getting me all kinds of dolls and Barbie and makeup and clothes...

i was lucky in that respect, all my dolls were action figure type toys,  but when they were based from cartoon (he-man, Thundercats, Ghostbusters ect) it seems cruel to deny kids the merch

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Can we talk about how the "girl" lego figures have bobble heads and tiny waists for a minute?

We HAD female lego people when I was a kid. They were exactly the same as the male ones, you just slapped some "girl" hair on them and called it a day. Sometimes you had a head that had makeup, or (in the case of the pirates) some cleavage painted on, but they were all the same shape, totally interchangeable, and could use all the same equipment. When you're a kid THAT'S WHAT BOYS AND GIRLS ARE LIKE. YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT'S IN THEIR PANTS BEYOND WISHING THE BOYS ACROSS THE STREET WOULD STOP THINKING IT'S FUNNY TO PEE IN THE ROAD LIKE THAT. Excessive differences in appearance between boy and girl characters are unrealistic and totally not helping.