What did you do with my RWHN?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not like NINETEEN-YEAR-OLDS ever photograph looking like nineteen-year-olds, either.

ROCKSTAR TREATMENT DISRESPECTING THE VICTIMS BEAT HIM TO DEATH LIMELIGHT KIDS KIDS KIDS BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS KIDS KIDS KIDS WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE KIDS EVEN IF THE BOMBER WAS A KID TORTURE MAIM BEAT TO DEATH GENERAL POPULATION HIV HEP C PUNISHMENT PUNISHMENT ROCKSTAR.

You forgot something:

ROCKSTAR TREATMENT DISRESPECTING THE VICTIMS BEAT HIM TO DEATH LIMELIGHT KIDS KIDS KIDS BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS KIDS KIDS KIDS WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE KIDS EVEN IF THE BOMBER WAS A KID TORTURE MAIM BEAT TO DEATH GENERAL POPULATION HIV HEP C PUNISHMENT PUNISHMENT ROCKSTAR.

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There we go.

[Doktor Howl]

Except that it isn't just hicks, is it?

This once again proves my point that po'buckerism isn't a Southern thing, a race thing, or even a socio-economic thing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Except that it isn't just hicks, is it?

This once again proves my point that po'buckerism isn't a Southern thing, a race thing, or even a socio-economic thing.

I was looking for Maximum America, but anymore that guy is a remnant of an idyllic and bygone America. I could just as easily have used this guy, he's pretty much the generic face of America:

ROCKSTAR TREATMENT DISRESPECTING THE VICTIMS BEAT HIM TO DEATH LIMELIGHT KIDS KIDS KIDS BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS KIDS KIDS KIDS WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE KIDS EVEN IF THE BOMBER WAS A KID TORTURE MAIM BEAT TO DEATH GENERAL POPULATION HIV HEP C PUNISHMENT PUNISHMENT ROCKSTAR.

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[Doktor Howl]

Except that it isn't just hicks, is it?

This once again proves my point that po'buckerism isn't a Southern thing, a race thing, or even a socio-economic thing.

I was looking for Maximum America, but anymore that guy is a remnant of an idyllic and bygone America. I could just as easily have used this guy, he's pretty much the generic face of America:

This inspired a shoop.

Tonight I am going to WOMP America. 

[The Johnny]

anybody ever see this film?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_%282003_film%29

there is a HUGE difference between noting the influences that lead someone to do something horrible, to justifying the act.

in other words, there is a crime this person must pay for, but there's also a phonebook of people that should also should be punished, for they lead him to commit the crime, things dont exist in a vaccuum, its all context and influences.

EDIT: goddamn link, now fixed

[Nephew Twiddleton]

anybody ever see this film?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_(2003_film)

there is a HUGE difference between noting the influences that lead someone to do something horrible, to justifying the act.

in other words, there is a crime this person must pay for, but there's also a phonebook of people that should also should be punished, for they lead him to commit the crime, things dont exist in a vaccuum, its all context and influences.

No, but I am suddenly reminded of a movie I saw with my ex about two Palestinian guys who end up becoming suicide bombers, and the doubts that they went through. I just emailed her to see if she remembered the title.

[Suu]

Except that it isn't just hicks, is it?

This once again proves my point that po'buckerism isn't a Southern thing, a race thing, or even a socio-economic thing.

I have a totally progressive cousin and cousin-in-law living in bumfuck Alabama, and have met some serious po'bucker douches in downtown Providence. It's a state of mind, not a red state or blue state.

[Junkenstein]

Random aside, the Japanese legal system places a massive degree of importance on the motive and events leading to the crime.

Lots of other things fucked with Japanese legal system, but this always struck me as very, very, smart.

[Cain]

Random aside, the Japanese legal system places a massive degree of importance on the motive and events leading to the crime.

Lots of other things fucked with Japanese legal system, but this always struck me as very, very, smart.

Motive is a big component of common law systems as well.  Under the most traditional understanding, the motive as well as the action is critical in deciding the sentence.  That's why there are different outcomes for justified killing in self-defense, manslaughter and murder, despite all of them ending up in the same place, with someone dead.

[The Johnny]

Random aside, the Japanese legal system places a massive degree of importance on the motive and events leading to the crime.

Lots of other things fucked with Japanese legal system, but this always struck me as very, very, smart.

Motive is a big component of common law systems as well.  Under the most traditional understanding, the motive as well as the action is critical in deciding the sentence.  That's why there are different outcomes for justified killing in self-defense, manslaughter and murder, despite all of them ending up in the same place, with someone dead.

well, but to what point "events leading to the crime" are taken into account? surely not macro-economics

cartels have their origins with people that had to live on starvation thresholds or make a big break with trafficking... so part of the guilt is on the states abandonment of these people.

the general justice system is too short sighted

[Junkenstein]

A macro-economic defense may make sense if it's some kind of mass/class action against say a bank or somesuch?

I can't quite rule it out, because it would seem to be a part of social justice.

I'd say the justice system in general is short sighted, and that's probably by design.

[The Johnny]

Taking the story behind the creation of "Monster":

Aileen Wuornos was born out of a teen-pregnancy, her mother abandoned her giving her away to her grandmother, her father (schizophrenic) was incarcerated for sexual abuse; so Wuornos had a lot of negative influences over her life course, they are so strong that they could be called determinants.

She turned to tricks and crime to survive.

Where does the justice system start to account for everything? Who knows what negative influences her parents had on themselves that lead to them treating her that way? Was it lack of education, a lacking support from their families, or was it poverty, poverty caused from systemic injustice in the distribution of wealth?

I don't think we will ever know, but it's not just blood on her hands, but all the influences and context that lead her to do the things she did.

[Doktor Howl]

Thing is, while I am against the hair shirt punishment concept that America craves, I am also sort of leery of the motives/background approach, because the logical extension of that is that we FIX people based on that, and the idea of mentally fixing people leads to a pretty deep, nasty rabbit hole.

[The Johnny]

Im just saying that people that do horrible acts should be made accountable, but also those that influenced given person to do said horrible acts. But influences can become abstractions with no sole guilty individual, who would be accountable for a crime derived from systemic poverty?

[Doktor Howl]

Im just saying that people that do horrible acts should be made accountable, but also those that influenced given person to do said horrible acts. But influences can become abstractions with no sole guilty individual, who would be accountable for a crime derived from systemic poverty?

Woooo...So, basically, we would convict the parents, for example, alongside the person who committed a crime?