Presidents say stupid things

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't get it, man, I thought we were supposed to be all about peace, love and understanding.

oh, you wanted the hippie forum...that's down the hall. Discordianism as I see it has absolutely nothing to do with peace, love, and understanding. In fact, it has alot to do with chaos, strife, and realizing that there is probably no understanding to be had.

But, Sweetie, what are you fighting FOR, try to keep that separate from what you are fighting against.  Fighting against the system, fighting for peace, love and understanding.  And in case you hadn't noiticed, there are a lot of hippies here  You better watch out

1.  Troof.  If you're going to fight, you're supposed to fight FOR something.

2.  Hippies aren't ALL loveburgers.  Take Efrim, for example.

Scratch that.  You're supposed to fight for pie.

[East Coast Hustle]

and cookies!

don't forget cookies!

[Zurtok Khan]

Whoops I forgot cookies.

I'm a hippy in the "hey dude I'm tripped out and want to hug everyone tonight" way, most of the time.  Of course, the rest of the time I'm a hippy in the "dude, grow a brain cell and read a book" way.

Ehh, whatever.

*wonders if he can be the Oracle of Hippiness*

Ohh, and yeah, they're all politicians.  Politician = Person who is pain by a corporation to vote in a way that makes the corporation money.  There is no difference between them.  All the same.  Give up (generally denegrates into random emo rantings about how everything is all the same and you should all give up now, or die.).

Anyway, this started as a good discussion (wow we can have one of those?) but generally turned into the same kind of shit everything on this board turns into.  Fuck, and I thought some of you were intelligent (yes, I am baiting you.)

[Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy]

Whoops I forgot cookies.

I'm a hippy in the "hey dude I'm tripped out and want to hug everyone tonight" way, most of the time.  Of course, the rest of the time I'm a hippy in the "dude, grow a brain cell and read a book" way.

Ehh, whatever.

*wonders if he can be the Oracle of Hippiness*

---->snip<-----

Anyway, this started as a good discussion (wow we can have one of those?) but generally turned into the same kind of shit everything on this board turns into.  Fuck, and I thought some of you were intelligent (yes, I am baiting you.)

I think we need an Oracle of Happiness, but you are gonna catch hell from the people who hate pies and cookies.  Oh, you said Hippiness, that's very different, well it's a little different, actually it may not be different at all  

Anyway, I was trying to get good a discussion going.  What was I thinking    

[East Coast Hustle]

are you kidding? this was a great discussion.

it just wasn't the discussion you had in mind.

[Cain]

I think the remit of this thread should be widened, to international heads of state say the stupidest things.  I can think of a few slip ups by our own elected officials which are fun...

[Horab Fibslager]

jean chretien on the wmds:

we'll shwo support when there's prooff? a proofs a proof, when we have proof of proof, we'll know they have proof.

the guy's agoldmine, but i pay as little attention to canadian politics as possible. after awhile it all blends intot ehsame scam anyway.

[Ghost In The Machine]

I'm still not sure why exactly Bath thinks Hillary's (alleged) crimes (that he hasn't identified) are somehow worse than any other politician's.

As near as I can tell, he is basing it soley on the fact that she is a woman, that is the only thing he has identified.  She has been in politics since before she met Bill, but a lot of people don't realise that.  They think she rode in on his coat tails, when it may actually be the other way around.

time for me to rip you a new one again...

please point out to me where I EVER said that her being a woman had anything to do with it? because I could give a rat-fuck about that...I also never said that her crimes were any worse than anything that every other politician does...however, none of those other politicians are the most likely person to be our next president...if she decides not to run and they put Biden or Edwards or Vilsack in as a replacement, I'll surely find something just as wrong with each one of them.

Especially Biden.

incidentally, if the Dems want to run a female candidate, they oughtta let the GOP lackeys push the constitutional amendment through to allow foreign-born citizens to be president, and then run Jennifer Granholm.

This kind of ranting, in my opinion, is part of the problem.

Nobody is good enough for your vote, these days?  Well, that's fine, as long as you are willing to pay the price for not voting.

When you get sent to a stupid, useless war on the other side of the planet, when you are thrown in jail for not being patriotic enough, when the IRS invades your life for no reason, when you are forbidden to fly because you aren't conservative enough....THEN you will realize that it really DOES matter who is president/governor/police chief.  And you will wish you HAD voted.

While jingoism does not equal patriotism, neither does being cynical...and there's nothing wrong with genuine patriotism, in a republic.  Why the hell do you think the republic is degrading into tyranny?

Because nobody cares, anymore.  They're too busy rah-rahing the war, or being too cool to give a shit.  May they all burn in hell.

[Hoshiko]

It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind. - Voltaire

The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border? - Pablo Casals

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - Albert Einstein

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. - Bertrand Russell

Screw patriotism. It's a lost term, representing am ideal that should never be attained. It's become a rallying cry for everyone trying to surface a cheap sense of duty for their side.

How about forgetting our borders and adopting a kind of humanitarianism, a basic sense of human decency and what is right? The world is too small now for patriotism to survive in it's current form. People are starting to blur their allegiances. What you see as a lack of partriotism and a gradual decay of social order is more representative of a world that realises that things are becoming more complicated, more blended.

I don't know where that will finally get us, but I can't honestly view that as a bad thing. We prevent disease, murder, destruction, and yet we condone all of these things under the umbrella of patriotism.

I love my country, but not to the exclusion of others. My allegiances are to the people that surround me and that have fought governments to make right. And to the land that supports them, wherever that may be. That's where my debt lies, not to some ideal of Motherland. I vote based on those policies and because it's in my best interests, and not because it is my "duty".

[Ghost In The Machine]

Screw patriotism. It's a lost term, representing am ideal that should never be attained. It's become a rallying cry for everyone trying to surface a cheap sense of duty for their side.

How about forgetting our borders and adopting a kind of humanitarianism, a basic sense of human decency and what is right?

No, patriotism isn't lost, it's just been co-opted, and used to represent jingoism.  That is no reason, however, to let the actions and Orwellian words of the Bastards that be dictate our behavior.

The world's a big place.  It's all I can do to worry about my country, let alone the teeming billions that live outside of it.  Our best hope, the world's best hope, is to get our nation back under control.  FDR had the right idea with his "Good Neighbor" policy.  Unfortunately, 3 nations at that time could not agree to something like that, and the results spoke for themselves.

As for the rest of your post:

Allegiances should start bottom up.  Family, then friends, then country, then world.  But these are not mutually exclusive terms.

Just one man's opinion, of course.

[Hoshiko]

Unfotunatly, there are some words that are co-opted and shall never be clean again. Patriotism is one of those words.

Actually, come to think of it, when was it ever clean? People have been using patriotism in the same dirty way since history began.

The world's a big place. It's all I can do to worry about my country, let alone the teeming billions that live outside of it.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I've got more friends outside the country than in, which may have skewed my thinking a bit, but people and the big picture are my first concern. Where has myopic nationalism gotten us?

Our best hope, the world's best hope, is to get our nation back under control.

Well, in the short term, maybe. I doubt it. The world's best hope is for people to relize that our country is not the most important one as of this moment. That we do not have the right to impose ourselves on others based on non-existant threats and paranoi. We need to think bigger. I can't see how you can think big enough to solve any problem as large as ours while still holding your interests close to the heartland of the good ol' USA.

Allegiances should start bottom up. Family, then friends, then country, then world.

Sometimes you have to protect the world before your country benefits. When everyone focuses on country before world, things go very badly very fast.

[Ghost In The Machine]

Unfotunatly, there are some words that are co-opted and shall never be clean again. Patriotism is one of those words.

Actually, come to think of it, when was it ever clean? People have been using patriotism in the same dirty way since history began.

The world's a big place. It's all I can do to worry about my country, let alone the teeming billions that live outside of it.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. I've got more friends outside the country than in, which may have skewed my thinking a bit, but people and the big picture are my first concern. Where has myopic nationalism gotten us?

Our best hope, the world's best hope, is to get our nation back under control.

Well, in the short term, maybe. I doubt it. The world's best hope is for people to relize that our country is not the most important one as of this moment. That we do not have the right to impose ourselves on others based on non-existant threats and paranoi. We need to think bigger. I can't see how you can think big enough to solve any problem as large as ours while still holding your interests close to the heartland of the good ol' USA.

Allegiances should start bottom up. Family, then friends, then country, then world.

Sometimes you have to protect the world before your country benefits. When everyone focuses on country before world, things go very badly very fast.

Actually, our country IS the most important one right now...for all the wrong reasons...the same reasons that made Germany pretty important in, say, 1938.

As for your last comment, if everyone focused on what's ACTUALLY best for their own country, the world would be a much nicer place.  For example, the current warmongering being done by the USA is NOT in our best interests.  Peaceful trade and wealthy neighbors are.  The rising tide lifts all boats actually does work, providing the tide really IS rising.

Words like patriotism only belong to the bastards if you let them.  I find it very patriotic to hate what the current administration is doing to my country, for example.

[East Coast Hustle]

This kind of ranting, in my opinion, is part of the problem.

Nobody is good enough for your vote, these days?  Well, that's fine, as long as you are willing to pay the price for not voting.

When you get sent to a stupid, useless war on the other side of the planet, when you are thrown in jail for not being patriotic enough, when the IRS invades your life for no reason, when you are forbidden to fly because you aren't conservative enough....THEN you will realize that it really DOES matter who is president/governor/police chief.  And you will wish you HAD voted.

While jingoism does not equal patriotism, neither does being cynical...and there's nothing wrong with genuine patriotism, in a republic.  Why the hell do you think the republic is degrading into tyranny?

Because nobody cares, anymore.  They're too busy rah-rahing the war, or being too cool to give a shit.  May they all burn in hell.

show me where I said I didn't or wouldn't vote? I've voted every chance I've gotten since I turned 18 so long ago. Your implication seems to be that I should vote the party line even if I don't think any of that party's candidates are the right person for the job. I think it's that kind of thinking that is a large part of what is wrong with american politics these days and both sides are equally guilty. There shouldn't even be "sides". And even though I would probably fall into the "liberal" category (I prefer the term "progressive"), if the '08 election ends up being Hillary vs. McCain, as seems so likely, I am going ot vote for McCain. not because of party politics, but because I think he's a better choice for the job. Does that mean I can't turn around and vote for a Democrat for senate, congress, county commissioner, school board, etc? of course not, and that's probably what I'll do. But I refuse to let my vote be influenced by labels. Sorry if that bothers you.

[Ghost In The Machine]

This kind of ranting, in my opinion, is part of the problem.

Nobody is good enough for your vote, these days?  Well, that's fine, as long as you are willing to pay the price for not voting.

When you get sent to a stupid, useless war on the other side of the planet, when you are thrown in jail for not being patriotic enough, when the IRS invades your life for no reason, when you are forbidden to fly because you aren't conservative enough....THEN you will realize that it really DOES matter who is president/governor/police chief.  And you will wish you HAD voted.

While jingoism does not equal patriotism, neither does being cynical...and there's nothing wrong with genuine patriotism, in a republic.  Why the hell do you think the republic is degrading into tyranny?

Because nobody cares, anymore.  They're too busy rah-rahing the war, or being too cool to give a shit.  May they all burn in hell.

show me where I said I didn't or wouldn't vote? I've voted every chance I've gotten since I turned 18 so long ago. Your implication seems to be that I should vote the party line even if I don't think any of that party's candidates are the right person for the job. I think it's that kind of thinking that is a large part of what is wrong with american politics these days and both sides are equally guilty. There shouldn't even be "sides". And even though I would probably fall into the "liberal" category (I prefer the term "progressive"), if the '08 election ends up being Hillary vs. McCain, as seems so likely, I am going ot vote for McCain. not because of party politics, but because I think he's a better choice for the job. Does that mean I can't turn around and vote for a Democrat for senate, congress, county commissioner, school board, etc? of course not, and that's probably what I'll do. But I refuse to let my vote be influenced by labels. Sorry if that bothers you.

No, I guess you didn't say that.  However, what you DID say was that you intend to find serious fault with ANYONE who runs.

[East Coast Hustle]

true, but it's more with the intention of getting all of the relevant information out in the open than anything else. America loves to get it's informed opinions from 30-second sound bites. I just think that we should gather all of the available information about a candidate, including and especially all of the serious dirt. They've all got it, but some of it may be more relevant to the issues confronting POTUS than others. Do I care about a sex scandal? not really. Do I care about influence-peddling and shady land deals? probably more so.