Who is 'Us'?

[AFK]

Of course, if we really want to get carried away with the sheep metaphor we can talk about shepherds.  Those elements of the social environment that are "good/safe" maybe?

[Triple Zero]

any shepherd must stand helpless when the sheep flock together and form their own wolves

[DJRubberducky]

Of course, if we really want to get carried away with the sheep metaphor we can talk about shepherds.  Those elements of the social environment that are "good/safe" maybe?

ITYM "those elements of the social environment that have convinced us they are good/safe", usually by hyperactively reminding us about the wolves who weren't them.  I mean, just look at how frighteningly easy it was to propagate the thought that if we didn't do exactly as Dubya and the DHS said, then every tiny podunk town in the middle of friggin' nowhere was at risk for terrorist attack.  I mean, shit, even McVeigh decided to go with a LARGE CITY in the midwest.

[LMNO]

That sounds more like wolves in shepards clothing.

[LHX]

LHX: i don't get wtf you are talking about with that cluster of stars business?

flocking

[Triple Zero]

darn those flocking stars

[AFK]

That sounds more like wolves in shepards clothing.

That's what I would say.  I think there are elements in the social environment, that at least, a majority could identify as a positive reason to flock.  A really basic, or simple one, would be art.  People flocking together to appreciate a band, a performance, a painter, etc., etc.  Another example, this forum and sub forum.  It's flocked us all together to be discussing this.

Of course, these elements can be used for ill, as well.  To use the forum example again, the flocking together of personalities to flame or intiimdate another.  I know, then you get into the realm of subjectivity again, but I maintain that there can be constructive elements of flocking, they may well be outnumbered by the wolves, or wolves in shepards clothing, but I believe they are there. 

[Jenne]

Are the wolves just another incarnation of the "us" vs. "them" argument, though?

Is a shepherd just a wolf-gone-good, and vice-versa?

And what's the difference between "head-sheep" and shepherd?

[AFK]

I don't see shepherds and wolves being humans.  The wolves and the shepherds are elements of the social environment that cause the sheep (humans) to flock together.  Except, that the wolves and shepherds, as you point out, aren't cut and dry.  A shepherd can become a wolf.  Something that causes people to come together, and flock, for positive thought exchange could easily become something that causes strife and turmoil.  Democracy for example. 

[Jenne]

That seems a bit difficult to gauge.  I'm not saying that anthropomorphizing the deal is necessary, but how can an innate concept be a wolf?

Isn't it the usage of that concept that preys upon the sheep?  (and don't they deserve it?  for what are sheep but prey?  even the shepherd must eat...)

So who implements the concept such that it preys upon the flock?  I submit there has to be an instigator.  Someone in control.  I don't see how apartheid, low voter turnout and bankruptcy are wolves.  (sorry!)

[LMNO]

Have I mentioned how much I love these forums?


These conversations are awesome.  No troll.

[Jenne]

*blushes*

Well this stuff is brain candy to me.  You'll have to forgive my indulgences here, but the BIP is like a playground.

I'm sick, I know.

[P3nT4gR4m]

*blushes*

Well this stuff is brain candy to me.  You'll have to forgive my indulgences here, but the BIP is like a playground.

I'm sick, I know.

The BIP is only a prison til you realise it is. Then the bars are just something else to climb on  :-D

^^^ You just made me brainfart - thanx for that

[Jenne]

*blushes*

Well this stuff is brain candy to me.  You'll have to forgive my indulgences here, but the BIP is like a playground.

I'm sick, I know.

The BIP is only a prison til you realise it is. Then the bars are just something else to climb on :-D

^^^ You just made me brainfart - thanx for that

Heh.  You're welcome...I think. 

I meant the BIP section of PD, but you flipped that one on me, didncha? 

[AFK]

That seems a bit difficult to gauge.  I'm not saying that anthropomorphizing the deal is necessary, but how can an innate concept be a wolf?

Because it is something that causes the sheep to flock.  Safety in numbers.  
Honestly it's probably an imperfect metaphor, but I do think it is true that it is virtually impossible, short of being stranded on a deserted island, to not be a part of some type of flock.  

Isn't it the usage of that concept that preys upon the sheep?  (and don't they deserve it?  for what are sheep but prey?  even the shepherd must eat...)

I suppose I didn't take into account that the shepherd eventually will eat the sheep.  Again, another example of why this metaphor is possibly not the best.  Although, maybe that can take into account something in society that is seemingly good and safe but that will eventually turn on the sheep.  I don't know, I think I need to ponder this more.  

So who implements the concept such that it preys upon the flock?  I submit there has to be an instigator.  Someone in control.  I don't see how apartheid, low voter turnout and bankruptcy are wolves.  (sorry!)

The Machine?  The Con?  The System?  
again, probably needs further reflection on my part.