Felix on societal futurism

[Jasper]

Early man was a unique animal.  With no natural defenses, bodies that are in no way suited to proactive hunting, we are naturally scavengers.  We have a secret weapon, though: a well-designed brain.  The main advantage of our brain is the implementation of two powerful assets, the tool and the symbol.  Their function is synergetic; Tools, by definition, reduce labor.  Symbols record data and express it.  So profoundly built-in are these powers, that every single group of humans have in some way manifested them.  It is as if they are a part of us, expressed in everything we do.  Tools and symbols are the engines of progress and understanding, and are indispensable to any intelligent entity.

Time allows for refinement of tools and symbols, or T&S as I will refer to them from here on out.  And as T&S become more refined, it becomes apparent that their ultimate application is in building them into each other.  The end result is a device that reduces labor *and* communicates.  As T&S refine, involuntary labor and miscommunication will disappear.  Look at the age of independence, how it changed since the industrial revolution.  You would notice that young people are staying in their parent,Äôs care much longer, and the rate is steadily rising.  The apt term is excessive privilege, and it is a mark of reduced need for labor due to mechanization and T&S integration.  Schooling is ever more emphasized, as privilege allows more of us to take a degree of education at leisure.  The sentiment is hackneyed, but it remains tried and true that knowledge is power, and an educated people are a respectful people.  More and more, people are free to pursue their individuality.  People are following their dreams, and finding meaning in life. 

Utopia, as it is called, is a state of ultimate societal betterment.  Intentionally vague, yes.  As men of science, we do not proclaim to see the future.  However, there are qualifiers and indicators that will signal an age of utopia.  Technology in utopia would be at a level to have eliminated all involuntary labor, and that means no need for a monetary system and no need for strong federal government.  Equality and independence of wealth, health, speech, status, political influence- Notice I do not say ,Äòfreedom,Äô.  Freedom implies impunity, which is nonconductive toward civilization.  Freedom without respect and honor got the United States in it,Äôs sorry state, circa 2007.  You cannot have freedom without responsibility, as anyone who willingly signed our Declaration of Independence would tell you.  Disrespect is the corrosion of any society, and it is promoted to ill effect by lack of education, lack of humility, and mental illness.  In short, poverty.  To the argument that this Utopia would leave us useless and selfish, I would point out that growing up and learning society,Äôs rules amongst one,Äôs peers is enough hardship and trial by fire to produce functional, principled, and productive individuals.  We teach each other how to be, no matter what level of privilege. 

In this future, there would be no room for tyranny of any variety.  The people will participate in their own governance in their own right, by whatever avenue they choose.  Assisted in this by a powerful T&S network of some kind, this society would in effect realize Thomas Paine,Äôs higher ideal of government.  His feeling was that government is ,Äúat best, a tolerable evil.  At worst, an intolerable one.,Äù  As well as Federal government, superstitious institutions would also be abolished.  It is a radical notion to cease all religious practice, I know, but is it not equally radical to let it continue to lie, cheat, steal, kill, disrespect, wheedle, and subvert truth and reason?  What entity is to answer for the dark ages?  At whom do we look whenever rational thought is sidelined, whenever compassion is trumpeted yet greed exists?  Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar, citizen?  It is religion, and all spirituality besides.  While personal spirituality cannot be truly abolished, and indeed it is a boon to those who practice it as a personal matter, institutions must never be allowed to act upon a superstitious agenda.  It is too much power to allocate to any one entity who refuses the evidence of their own sense and sensibility, and it stops now or utopia can never be realized.

The part that you play in this developing world is liquid.  It is an inevitable trend that will naturally occur, I think.  It is memetic in nature and too grand in scale for any one individual to have more than a passing effect on it, and the best any of us can do is to promote it in our own circles.  By respecting yourself and others, involving yourself in the community, thinking critically, and supporting the development of T&S you bring it ever closer just by emulating the necessary change. You could devote your life to your passions and dreams, not to someone else,Äôs dollar.

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

Interesting.

I disagree with you on saying that freedom without respect is corrosive to civilization, though. Extreme individualism is necessary to prevent society from becoming some sort of We like nightmare, where all human interaction becomes entirely rational, but devoid of that which makes us human.

[East Coast Hustle]

Felix, what you're talking about sounds alot like technology-assisted anarchy.

Not necessarily an ignoble premise, but one that seems to run counter to observed human nature. Is there any evidence to back up the assertion that as technology advances it will quell humanity's basest instincts?

[Cain]

Without wanting to sound like a Luddite, technology enforces the status quo.  Detailed explanation on request.

[guest7654]

But doesn't it also enforce the fringe?  With the freedom of having so much knowledge at your fingertips and access to the extremes of society?

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

Without wanting to sound like a Luddite, technology enforces the status quo.  Detailed explanation on request.

Requesting detailed explanation. You cannot fathom how much I disagree with that statement, so I'd like to know more about how you reached that conclusion.

[Cain]

Easy.  Who does the research into advanced technology?  And who funds it?  What are they aiming for?  Usually, the people who fund research into advanced technologies want them for one major purpose - weaponry or related programs for national defence.  Or to make a shit ton of cash on the markets.

Technology leads to centralized governments, more powerful governments, with bigger and better databases, advanced analysis and surveillance techniques and near perfect real time coordination of man power.

A few years down the line, we get hold of the second rate material, usually a knock off of the original with half the viability, and thats if we're lucky.

And then there is the corrosive effects of technology on the economy and its impact on society.  Ask yourselves, if robots can do pretty much most of the manufacturing jobs, and our lives are meant to get easier as a result of technology, why is it that all over the industrialized world work hours are on the rise?  Why are more and more people thrust into jobs a machine could do, alienating and mostly pointless jobs they care nothing for, if technology itself is the cure?

[guest7654]

Because we have changed from 'sheep' to more of a beast of burden.  The more they can get us to work, the more wealth for them. 

Capitalism sucks that way. 

But 'we' just take it like good little boys and girls because they have us competing with eachother for more stuff to better impress the ladies.

[Cain]

I just wanted to see if I could make a convincing argument for the opposition.  Anything that works in our favour can, theoretically, work in the favour of the CoN too.  The internet is pretty much the exception, but it looks like that too may be put firmly back under control soon (Net Neutrality).

[Trojan Man]

Could be.  I like some of Felix's ideas.  There is no utopia, but paradise never died.  The Devil wrote the dictionary, and Jesus never lied.  Hey, that rhymed!  A poom!  I wrote a poom everybody!

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

Easy.  Who does the research into advanced technology?  And who funds it?  What are they aiming for?  Usually, the people who fund research into advanced technologies want them for one major purpose - weaponry or related programs for national defence.  Or to make a shit ton of cash on the markets.

Technology leads to centralized governments, more powerful governments, with bigger and better databases, advanced analysis and surveillance techniques and near perfect real time coordination of man power.

A few years down the line, we get hold of the second rate material, usually a knock off of the original with half the viability, and thats if we're lucky.

And then there is the corrosive effects of technology on the economy and its impact on society.  Ask yourselves, if robots can do pretty much most of the manufacturing jobs, and our lives are meant to get easier as a result of technology, why is it that all over the industrialized world work hours are on the rise?  Why are more and more people thrust into jobs a machine could do, alienating and mostly pointless jobs they care nothing for, if technology itself is the cure?

I disagree with you about your placing of causation. Yes, the government is responsible for a lot of scientific achievement, and technology does allow for greater governmental tyranny. However, technology does allow for greater efforts to resist the government. Sadly, technological advances aren't being used nearly to the degree they can be, and there isn't nearly enough of an effort to take away power from centralized authority, but that's not a result of technology so much as it is the result of a failing culture. The same holds true with the increase in hours for manual jobs. Technology does ultimately allow for more work to be done in less time, but a culture which enforces rigid hierarchy and class exploitation (the bosses demanding more and more work be done of those beneath them) has undone that entirely.

*reads the other posts in the thread*

Oh, you were trying to make a convincing argument for the opposition. Damn. Here I was getting all worked up.

[Cain]

Of course, going by your own argument, technological benefits cannot be used to their full potential without cultural change.  Which suggests that may be a better area of focus 

[Jasper]

ECH, is anything less than an aspritual technocratic respectocracy a likely candidate for utopia?

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

Of course, going by your own argument, technological benefits cannot be used to their full potential without cultural change.  Which suggests that may be a better area of focus 

What exactly did the wink signify?

[Jasper]

Without wanting to sound like a Luddite, technology enforces the status quo. 

The status quo is connected to society's level of mutal respect, which leads me to believe that technology enforces respect.