Moral cohesion and the Discordian Society

[Adios]

Damn Cain. Kudos.

And at the risk of getting flamed from every member on this board, why is it the talents and skill of everyone is being used on insignificant little forums who if left to their own devices and without our attacks forcing them to unite would more than likely dry up and blow away?
Wouldn't our efforts be of far more productive use in fighting the real enemies to freedom and finding new members?

I watch and have even participated in attacking fundie sites, and I have more than not wondered what good it does.

I have also wondered if instead of posting porn wouldn't be better replaced by well written, well thought out posts on why we think they are wrong.

Finding sites of malcontents, for whatever the reason they are malcontented, seems to me should be a much higher priority. Spending time to find those who belong here, and bringing then here. Then proactive movement to the real threats.

OK, flame away, but I really feel this way.

[Payne]

I agree with the general theme of  the OP.

Some really good things have been achieved here, at PD. It created the BIP concept by working together, even though the BIP is not a universally accepted idea, it was created through co-operation by discordians.

Yes, we need a little friction between us to work well sometimes, but all out warfare is a waste of our resources.

[East Coast Hustle]

Damn Cain. Kudos.

And at the risk of getting flamed from every member on this board, why is it the talents and skill of everyone is being used on insignificant little forums who if left to their own devices and without our attacks forcing them to unite would more than likely dry up and blow away?
Wouldn't our efforts be of far more productive use in fighting the real enemies to freedom and finding new members?

I watch and have even participated in attacking fundie sites, and I have more than not wondered what good it does.

I have also wondered if instead of posting porn wouldn't be better replaced by well written, well thought out posts on why we think they are wrong.

Finding sites of malcontents, for whatever the reason they are malcontented, seems to me should be a much higher priority. Spending time to find those who belong here, and bringing then here. Then proactive movement to the real threats.

OK, flame away, but I really feel this way.

, TITCM, , rah, 10/10, etc.

[Chairman Risus]

Major win there, Cain.  I agree alot with what vexation said, in that Discordians tend to avoid establishment, and typically try to hold tight to their individuality so much so that alliances are hard to hold within the community.  Again, the sparring idea is good, as opposed to ripping each other to shreds.  It'd be great if we could eventually get something accomplished, so this seems the right path there.

[Jasper]

Cain isn't proposing any kind of establishment.  As much was carefully detailed.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but he's saying that we respect each other-not necessarily play nice all the time- but honoring each other to the point that we can put ourselves in the same boat, so to speak.

Naturally, I'm enamored with the idea.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Games, boys and girls... Games.

If you take this forum seriously... rather, the jabs, pokes and prods of your fellow discordant, deviant, disciples of chaos, seriously.... then it seems to me that you'll have problems. However, this is an internet chat forum, with pseudonymous chaotes as regular members (rather than the lone insane troll), We shouldn't need to codify being nice to each other, we should strive to remember that debate, rant or flames from the bowels of a gargantuan red poster, can (maybe should) be remembered as a game. Games of Order, games of Disorder, but games that we can't take seriously. Taking any Internet debate seriously appears likely to cause cancer in lab mice and ulcers in humans,... how much less so Internet debate between the most confounding fools on the net?

Cain has some great points. If Discordians want to invoke creative chaos, poetic terrorism and art sabotage, then mass cooperation will be necessary. Even if I tend to disagree with the fight, it's a game and I can suspend my current model for whatever one my fellow Erisian may be smoking. Why not... I have no evidence that my view IS right. Of course, that doesn't mean that my help might not throw more thasn one monkey wrench into the works... but it won't be directly aimed at an ally.

However, I think it might be healthy to set up a forum here to vent afterwards

In fact, we could all try to make a habit of invading any and all sides of whatever particular argument may be going on. (ie take out a conservative blog and the next day take out a liberal one).Anyone too addicted to their beleifs seem a ripe target that we could.. well  mosbunal of us could agree on.

Maybe?

[LMNO]

Damn Cain, right on.


If I had to add anything, I'd say something about part of having a loose consensus with a group of Discordians not only means that they'll have you back when you get fucked with, but also that you should expect someone to call you out for being an asshole when you act it.

Meaning, if any kind of trust can really be had, there has to be an allowance of criticism as well as support under fire.


To use your V example, what if Susan said to Creedy, "man, you're really being a fuckhead about this," and Creedy was all, "yeah, I guess you're right.  I better cut that shit out."

[That One Guy]

I also have to add my voice to agree whole-heartedly with Cain.

It is the nature of smaller groups in opposition to what is perceived as "the norm" or mainstream to fall (sooner or later) into infighting and fracturing over minutae and very minor differences being exploded into earth-shattering, irreparable rifts of ideology. Discordianism has a leg up on this since it's essentially BASED on those minor rifts and the "think for yourself" meme, but as a small cult/religion we are still very succeptable to this fracturing - just look at the "lol23fnordpineal" reactions here to see that at work.

That isn't to say that all discordians MUST support unquestioningly anyone else that claims the Erisian moniker, but the less infighting we participate in the more we can actually accomplish.

I'm a member of the UAW (there's an office professionals branch of that mega-union that covers my current position) because I am able to get better salary and benefits by allying myself in the appropriate circumstances with others of a similar situation for the benefit of ALL than I would be able to get by attempting to negotiate on my own with my employer. This doesn't mean I blindly follow the lead of the rest of the union members, nor do I expect them to blindly obey my ideals just because we all are members. It means that together we can accomplish more for the overall benefit of the group than any of us could manage on our own.

Same thing with Discordians - people in a position of power will only bow to one thing historically - a group of people unified in principle and acting in a concerted, coordinated fashion to present a common concept. Sometimes that is presented behind the barrel of a gun (as in various revolutions) and other times it is presented in the form of protests, petitions, letters to elected officials/networks/whatever. If a handful of repressed housewives or fundamentalists can almost singlehandedly censor the media with a few dozen letters, just think of what a coordinated group of discordians could accomplish!

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I DISAGREE BECAUSE MY PENILE GLAND TOLD ME NOT TO FOLLOW YUO

[Cramulus]

My two cents--

I'm not a part of the EB&G drama, nor do I have issue with anyone on this board (except myself). It seems to me that the rift between EB&G and PD have somehow decreased the quality of both locales.

But if we're going to move forward and carry this torch into the coming decades, we don't just need to all get on the same team, we need focus. And we need people to be willing to step up to the plate and lead -- and lead by example -- like Cain is doing.

I conjecture that if we were to complete a project, especially one that draws material from both PD and EB&G posters, it will give both communities the slack they need to move forward and explode like popcorn into something delicious.




Professor Cramulus

[AFK]

I agree in principle.  I just want to point out that one of the wedges with some of the people on EB&G was with the BIP-type material.  Some feared we were becoming a bit zealous and preachy with it.  This will be a hurdle we will have to contend with.  I'm not saying it can't happen.  Indeed, I'd love to see us re-connect with some of those posters, I just want to put it out there for the purposes of context. 

[LMNO]

Not to mention, all a lot of them want to do is bitch about MysticWicks.

[Mangrove]

Not to mention, all a lot of them want to do is bitch about MysticWicks.

Was going to post something snarky here. Thought better of it on account of it being too easy.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Remember though, if we're really going to embrace Discordia above all else, some of the 23FNORDPINEAL comments may need to be more thoughtful. As I mentioned before, its not the trappings that may be at issue, but rather getting trapped in the trappings. Besides, the boatload of memes that drew mosbunal of us to Discordianism shouldn't necessarily be so completely discounted. After all, 23FNORDPINEALLAWOFFIVES etc etc are Memes in the wild, propagated by a group that has some similar ideals (particularly in regard to the ideals that Cain mentions in the OP). Instead of beating the tar out of our Brothers and Sisters of the Chao, perhaps some reconsideration may be useful.

For some reason the sorting hat from Harry Potter just popped into my head. In the past I've sort of sorted our wild gang of hooligans into Erisians (the mystics and the 23FNORDPINEAL gang), Discordians (the atheist, hard edged, jaded and not necessarily as optimistic pranksters), Sub Geniuses (those actively trying to turn the poor cabbages into coleslaw) and the Illuminati (the ones that play with all the groups, play off of all the groups and play all the groups against each other.

I'm sure there are a thousand and twenty-three other ways to sort our motley gang of guerrilla goofballs, but the above should be OK for an example.

Anyway, instead of raping the souls of poor widdle Erisians that wander in, we may be able to direct their efforts. That is, if we're activly planning an attack on site X, they may make excellent distractions. What better to unleash on site X (weeks after another group of us have site ID's and appear to be normal users) than a load of Discordians (which we would post rude things to and tell them to STFU... all the while directing both sides of the mess from here)....

So, I'm in if we're gonna call a Discordian truce and alliance... but we need to keep in mind that Discord comes in many forms, each with their own special use. I'm not calling us all Tools... well ok I guess I am.

[LMNO]

I'm not sure how clear it is when we do it, but the point isn't that silly non-sequitors have no place, it's that it's incredibly boring when someone rehashes 40-year-old non sequitors on a board that's heard them 10,000 times.


If you notice, many of the posters here are no strangers to abject sillyness.  But we try to do 2 things, usually:

1. Make them original (or riff on a still-new meme).

2. Balance them with more substantative content.


There are, of course exceptions to this.


Also, when I go Discordian somwhere new, I have nothing against using the Old Phrases, because they seem to have some weight.  But I don't do it here.

It would be like a bunch of Calculus majors continually joking about long division.