Vs. Organized Religion

[LMNO]

Human?

[Cainad (dec.)]

"Primate"

[P3nT4gR4m]

"sectarianist"

That's the religion I was brought up with, btw.

Dirty fenian bastards 

[Cain]

I can't wait until Scotland secedes from the Union, and takes Northern Ireland with it.

It will be like having our own little Lebanon, only with shitty weather and incomprehensible accents.

[Voodoo]

I can't wait until Scotland secedes from the Union, and takes Northern Ireland with it.

It will be like having our own little Lebanon, only with shitty weather and incomprehensible accents.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Meanwhile, back at the Original Topic of this thread:

In a general context, I dislike organized religion because it is a drop-in replacement for personality and character. It presents a set of rules that cover, in theory, every single situation you might ever be faced with. It doesn't even try to hide the fact that its purpose is to program you and remove your responsibility and desire to think for yourself. It's also easy to abuse, easy to hijack, and easily gets out of control. It approaches life with a formula, when life is anything but formulaic or predictable. It drives a wedge between you, and anything and anyone you don't already know, effectively castrating your ability to expand your personal horizons. It rewards ignorance and bigotry. It reinforces the Us-vs-Them paradigm in every activity and every situation.

Specifically, the reason that is all bad as far as I'm concerned is because I have watched organized religion become the root cause of a lot of unnecessary suffering in the people surrounding me throughout my life. It robbed my cousin of his sense of humor, leaving instead an impenetrable cloud of self-loathing and guilt. It infected my father with a chronic lack of ambition and motivation. It has put strain on relationships that have no business being strained. Worst of all, it drove me to literally kill my grandmother, the closest friend I had until I met my wife.

Organized religion has no place in a modern society if that society wants to outgrow the tribalism and separatism that continues to define the Human race long after we have any real evolutionary need for such views.

[Cramulus]

while I mitten you and agree with every single one of your points,

I'm kind of glad that the motivating force, the background noise in the forebrain of most of this country
says "Be a Good Person".



suckers. 

[Triple Zero]

to Vex and :agreement: to Cram

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Interesting that you would say "program", Vex.  It turns out that organized, hierarchical religion came about with the advent of cities (ie the Sumerian city of Eridu).  Cities are the first living situation in which not everybody knows everybody, so the previous social controls of shame and peer pressure no longer work.  Thus, organized religion, to set out a systemized rule of behavior in the framework of morals and ethics.  In Sumerian culture the government and the religious hierarchy were the same thing.

[Honey]

Interesting thoughts on organized religion ('specially Vex & RBOG)  Organized religion remains because it continues to be one of the most effective ways of controlling people.  Patriotism or nationalism is a type of religion too I think.  Combining the two systems has been used throughout history & continues to be used to control people. 

I dislike organized religion for all the reasons that have been stated.  Organized religion continues to haunt us because organizations tend to be self-perpetuating & have no natural life span.  The one thing you can say about anything that exists in the world (as opposed to the many things that don't) is that whatever exists somehow works, has some sort of function maybe? 

Organizations often continue way on past their usefulness.  Most organizations are self-preserving.  The organization wants to continue to exist even after their mission or goal has been fulfilled.  Organized religions continue to exist because they seem to serve some sort of purpose (as a control? or so maybe people don't have to think for themselves? (schmucks))

The art of medicine grows with knowledge.  The art of science advances with discovery.  Improved technologies replace the old.  Products become better with improved design.  Empires, countries, entire civilizations go through periods of renaissance & decay & sometimes even vanish completely.  Organized religions multiply & mutate & continue to exist in various forms.  The new forms are not necessarily an improvement on the old forms (as is truer in science, technology, products, etc.) but they continue to serve some sort of purpose even if it's only to control people.

Organized religions seem to borrow from various older myths & sacred stories.  They have a way of mutating, splintering off & multiplying.  They're like viruses.   

Human beings are still human beings even though we continue to evolve.  We're still here until we are no longer still here.   

Organized religion may have no place in modern society but unfortunately cannot be ignored.  The predominant religion of a country seems to have a hangover effect on its people.  Even when you are not schooled in that religion, you are subtly & sometimes not so subtly effected.  The main tenets of the religion become engrained in the country's culture.  In the USA, religionists are currently conflating atheism with secularism.  They began to do this zealously in the 1950's with the communist scare & continue to advance their crazy ass notions today.  The theocons, neocons, & whatever else kind of cons have been working diligently to introduce an American style theocrazy.  They added the word god to the pledge of allegiance, added in god we trust to the money & get this, there are still 6 states, (Texas, Massachusetts, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee) that require state office-holders to have particular religious beliefs.  The required beliefs include belief in a Supreme Being, and belief in a future state of rewards and punishments.  Theocracy, American style.  The xian right in the USA continues to push this agenda. 

The term Christian right is used by people from a wide range of political and religious viewpoints, for self identification and outside commentary. Some 15% of the electorate in the United States tell pollsters they align themselves with the Christian right, which serves as an important voting bloc within the U.S. Republican Party. In recent years, Christian right groups have appeared in other countries than the United States. However, the Christian right remains a idiosyncratic phenomenon most commonly associated with the United States.

...

"Most Americans still do not realize how extraordinary their brand of conservatism is. While the American Left - unions, academics, public-sector workers - have their equivalents overseas, Dustin [Hastert], Maura, Focus on the Family, the angry taxpayers and the militant gun owners are distinctly American."  While the Christian Right is a stronger movement in the United States, other western nations have their own Christian right movements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

I dunno how accurate the above quote is but 15% of the electorate in a country where so many people are disillusioned enough not to even bother to vote? 

[Voodoo]

was watching God's Warriors on CNN, saw a segment on Teen Mania (thought that was a porn site).  It is everything we have talked about that is wrong with Organized Religion.  They have an entire reprogramming program.  Scary stuff.

http://www.teenmania.com/corporate/index.cfm

Am looking for a phone number/forum for us to troll.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Forum: http://www.teenmania.com/discussion/
This came up when I tried to enter it:  http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://www.teenmania.com/discussion/

[Mourning Star]

Forum: http://www.teenmania.com/discussion/
This came up when I tried to enter it:  http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://www.teenmania.com/discussion/

Weird

[nurbldoff]

I was pretty much an atheist before encountering Discordianism/Illuminatus. We practically never even discussed religion in my family, except for my grandmothers, but they were really pretty harmless. I didn't really know anyone who was very religious either, at least nobody who would discuss it at length. So I can't say I grew up with any strong feelings about any kind of religion. Later I entered the "scientific/materialistic" world view and I guess atheism came with the deal, or so I thought anyway. I was probably even an asshole about it at times. You've got to love fundamentalist atheists...

Now I've become much more of an agnostic. The discordian world view just seems fundamentally sane to me.

[Iason Ouabache]

to Vex.