MAKE MONEY TELLING STUPID PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, SRSLY.

[Lies]

Also, Amazing Randi's million dollar challenge. Still waiting for *anyone* to claim that million.

Try the other one

Yeah, nice try, but no, no. That site seems to be full of shit.

It's a site with lots of paranormal themes, of course they're going to bitch about him.
I mean, my god, they're taking jabs at his *sexual prowness*. Grow the fuck up.

Randi has many shows where he gets people with supposed psychic powers to do their thing, and he always shows they are full of shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cS6DjeBz7g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7yDLRib5CQ&feature=related "My whole idea of why I did this in the first place was to see how dumb the world was, er how dumb the world is."- Supposed psychic in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD163h4mKQA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP5_4x8eBXI&feature=related


There's a million videos of Randi Debunking people with claims of psychic ability.

But hey, you know what, I really don't care.
Believe what you want to believe, if you really want to waste your money on people who claim psychic ability, go ahead.
I'll be one of those people waiting to take your cash.

[Triple Zero]

That's not the point. Just because Randi also shows how psychics are full of shit, doesn't mean his "Million Dollar Challenge" is not full of shit as well.

Or like Derren Brown, just because he can also do some really awesome mentalist tricks, doesn't mean that his lotto trick was a huge disappointment ...

Don't forget to kill your idols, Lys.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

It's a site with lots of paranormal themes, of course they're going to bitch about him.

Pet peeve here. The site is about forteana, so they kind of need to touch upon it. Fortean types can be split into two categories: the sane and the nuts. The nuts are typically nuttier than the nuts in any other group, and the sane ones are typically saner than the sane members of any other group. I wouldn't have referenced it had I not considered this one of the sane ones -- referencing the nuts can be counterproductive.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Randi is full of shit for the same reason that the Brights and Dawkins are full of shit... they BELIEVE that they KNOW something. Their Dogma is as paralyzing to their thinking as Pat Robertsons is... just in a different direction. It's pseudo-skepticism at its finest. Randi and Dawkins both have exposed themselves as people who are out to DISPROVE rather than people who are out looking for information. Their BiP is full of NO, CAN'T and IMPOSSIBLE; Solider, Solider Solider and not one hunchback among them.

[Cain]

Doesn't Randi have an unsavoury rep amongst most serious skeptics anyway?  I'm pretty sure someone here, like Iason, mentioned that once.

That said, here is a good reason not to pretend you have psychic powers.

[Captain Utopia]

However, there is nothing about the psychic industry which isn't based upon knowingly perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species.

How exactly does "perpetuating lies" lower the average intelligence of our species?

In the specific instance of the psychic industry, it is peddling fairy tales rather than education.  It is encouraging a belief in magical thinking, you know - the sort where everybody ends up believing that God/the universe/gaia/Simon Cowell favours them uniquely ahead of the rest of the pack.  The easy-fix mentality which kept Billy Mays bathed in cocaine and hookers, $19.95* sized chunks at a time.

You can call it a placebo, which helps and comforts desperate people in times of need, I call it a poison.

Yes, it's absolutely brutal and unethical to utilize a person's life long worldview (that they never will change) in order to profit and provide them comfort.

There's no ethical problem with placebos unless it is administered as a cure, or otherwise prevents people from seeking medical help for a serious medical issue. I highly doubt that people call psychics for any sort of medical advice.

You also have offered no evidence about how simply telling a person a lie lowers everyone's intelligence. In fact, I'd say your claim is a lie and that instead of lowering people's intelligence you are provoking the truth to smack you in the face, for all to see.

I can cite several studies that demonstrate telling lies, can actually measurably raise people's performance on tests of intelligence.

Placebos, by definition, cause actual beneficial effects. You calling that poison merely demonstrates just how much you're talking out of your ass.

  Thanks for dragging me back into this after I bowed out and attempted to retract my inflammatory statements.  I appreciate that.  No, really.

Do you see the difference between:

  "perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species"

AND

  "perpetuating lies, which lowers the average intelligence of our species"

?

I said the former, you seem to be reading the latter.  If you are still feeling grammatically challenged, then let me be explicit - I was talking about an unethical shyster who strings along a mark using techniques such as those in "red hot cold reading" using psychological techniques designed to prevent the mark from seeing through the mistakes/incorrect guesses - one co-author is a Psychology Prof and makes no bones of the utility of applying his knowledge in this regard.

But by trying to ensure that the mark doesn't use their own mind to see through those lies being sold to them, I do believe that this can have a negative impact on the intelligence of that individual.  And both directly and indirectly, other people who are subsequently influenced by that individual - it is itself a tool of rhetoric, but mathematically accurate, that this would have the effect of lowering the average intelligence of our species, by an infinitesimal amount, each time it happens.

However, I was wrong to apply that con-artist label to the entire psychic industry - I was having fun with the back and forth, and in my ignorance, I over-stretched.  Perhaps I should have worn my "Captain Idealist" mask and cape while bellowing "I call it a poison!!!" over-dramatically from the nearest rooftop?  Certainly, I fear, this may have been caused by being too subtle.

[Salty]

Doesn't Randi have an unsavoury rep amongst most serious skeptics anyway?  I'm pretty sure someone here, like Iason, mentioned that once.

That said, here is a good reason not to pretend you have psychic powers.

Probably the most compelling arguement against it I've seen so far. Then again, if done right, one should be able to afford very large stone walls with a big gate. And/or bodyguards.

Still. That's fucking scary.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

However, there is nothing about the psychic industry which isn't based upon knowingly perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species.

How exactly does "perpetuating lies" lower the average intelligence of our species?

In the specific instance of the psychic industry, it is peddling fairy tales rather than education.  It is encouraging a belief in magical thinking, you know - the sort where everybody ends up believing that God/the universe/gaia/Simon Cowell favours them uniquely ahead of the rest of the pack.  The easy-fix mentality which kept Billy Mays bathed in cocaine and hookers, $19.95* sized chunks at a time.

You can call it a placebo, which helps and comforts desperate people in times of need, I call it a poison.

Yes, it's absolutely brutal and unethical to utilize a person's life long worldview (that they never will change) in order to profit and provide them comfort.

There's no ethical problem with placebos unless it is administered as a cure, or otherwise prevents people from seeking medical help for a serious medical issue. I highly doubt that people call psychics for any sort of medical advice.

You also have offered no evidence about how simply telling a person a lie lowers everyone's intelligence. In fact, I'd say your claim is a lie and that instead of lowering people's intelligence you are provoking the truth to smack you in the face, for all to see.

I can cite several studies that demonstrate telling lies, can actually measurably raise people's performance on tests of intelligence.

Placebos, by definition, cause actual beneficial effects. You calling that poison merely demonstrates just how much you're talking out of your ass.

  Thanks for dragging me back into this after I bowed out and attempted to retract my inflammatory statements.  I appreciate that.  No, really.

Do you see the difference between:

  "perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species"

AND

  "perpetuating lies, which lowers the average intelligence of our species"

?

I said the former, you seem to be reading the latter.  If you are still feeling grammatically challenged, then let me be explicit - I was talking about an unethical shyster who strings along a mark using techniques such as those in "red hot cold reading" using psychological techniques designed to prevent the mark from seeing through the mistakes/incorrect guesses - one co-author is a Psychology Prof and makes no bones of the utility of applying his knowledge in this regard.

But by trying to ensure that the mark doesn't use their own mind to see through those lies being sold to them, I do believe that this can have a negative impact on the intelligence of that individual.  And both directly and indirectly, other people who are subsequently influenced by that individual - it is itself a tool of rhetoric, but mathematically accurate, that this would have the effect of lowering the average intelligence of our species, by an infinitesimal amount, each time it happens.

However, I was wrong to apply that con-artist label to the entire psychic industry - I was having fun with the back and forth, and in my ignorance, I over-stretched.  Perhaps I should have worn my "Captain Idealist" mask and cape while bellowing "I call it a poison!!!" over-dramatically from the nearest rooftop?  Certainly, I fear, this may have been caused by being too subtle.

So why are you so concerned about the Marks intelligence? I mean if they're so idiotic that they believe in PSYCHIC POWERZ, why not take the opportunity to suck a few coins from them? Are we 'The Good Guys _TM'?

[Lies]

That's not the point. Just because Randi also shows how psychics are full of shit, doesn't mean his "Million Dollar Challenge" is not full of shit as well.

Or like Derren Brown, just because he can also do some really awesome mentalist tricks, doesn't mean that his lotto trick was a huge disappointment ...

Don't forget to kill your idols, Lys.

Yeah, I suppose.

[Lies]

Randi is full of shit for the same reason that the Brights and Dawkins are full of shit... they BELIEVE that they KNOW something. Their Dogma is as paralyzing to their thinking as Pat Robertsons is... just in a different direction. It's pseudo-skepticism at its finest. Randi and Dawkins both have exposed themselves as people who are out to DISPROVE rather than people who are out looking for information. Their BiP is full of NO, CAN'T and IMPOSSIBLE; Solider, Solider Solider and not one hunchback among them.

Yeah, true.

Still, I have yet to meet a real psychic or see any phenomena I can't explain.

If you can point me to one real psychic, I'll go and find out myself.

[LMNO]

Still, I have yet to meet a real psychic or see any phenomena I can't explain.

Really?


You need to be paying more attention.

[Lies]

Still, I have yet to meet a real psychic or see any phenomena I can't explain.

Really?


You need to be paying more attention.

Created by humans.

[Salty]

I think Hannah Montana, and the multi-million (billion?) dollar industry that is marketing for children, does more damage to our collective intelligence than "psychics" ever will. If for no other reason than then people that seek the advice of psychics are ADULTS fully capable of making their own choices

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

But by trying to ensure that the mark doesn't use their own mind to see through those lies being sold to them, I do believe that this can have a negative impact on the intelligence of that individual.  And both directly and indirectly, other people who are subsequently influenced by that individual - it is itself a tool of rhetoric, but mathematically accurate, that this would have the effect of lowering the average intelligence of our species, by an infinitesimal amount, each time it happens.

Shouldn't it fundamentally increase the intelligence? A stupid person tries to outwit an ostensibly more intelligent shyster, and they both get some level of mental exercise out of it? It can't be any less stimulating than watching reruns of Cash In The Attic, even if it doesn't match a crossword puzzle.

[Captain Utopia]

You raise a good point, and for that, I shall ignore you.