Yet another healthcare topic

[Maria]

Well clearly I can't ask a question without getting the "horrible death" argument,

It is a perfectly good argument.

What with the roughly 45,000 preventable uninsured deaths per year, it kind of seems like the main argument.

According to the arguments of the local conservatives, 911 would have to happen 15 more times before it would be significant.

Yeah, but fuck consistency when it interferes with their notions of what's best for themselves. 

What makes me laugh is that half of them don't have health insurance, and argue against national health care.  That level of stupidity is frustrating.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well clearly I can't ask a question without getting the "horrible death" argument,

It is a perfectly good argument.

What with the roughly 45,000 preventable uninsured deaths per year, it kind of seems like the main argument.

According to the arguments of the local conservatives, 911 would have to happen 15 more times before it would be significant.

Yeah, but fuck consistency when it interferes with their notions of what's best for themselves. 

What makes me laugh is that half of them don't have health insurance, and argue against national health care.  That level of stupidity is frustrating.

Well that's because if it wasn't for the damn liberals taking their tax money, they'd be rich! And Dr. visits would only cost $5! (Meanwhile disregarding that they don't earn enough to pay taxes in the first place.)

I love listening to windbags go off on "MY TAX DOLLARS" when I know they don't pay any and are on food stamps (But that's not welfare, that's just them getting through a rough patch.)

[Maria]

Well clearly I can't ask a question without getting the "horrible death" argument,

It is a perfectly good argument.

What with the roughly 45,000 preventable uninsured deaths per year, it kind of seems like the main argument.

According to the arguments of the local conservatives, 911 would have to happen 15 more times before it would be significant.

Yeah, but fuck consistency when it interferes with their notions of what's best for themselves. 

What makes me laugh is that half of them don't have health insurance, and argue against national health care.  That level of stupidity is frustrating.

Well that's because if it wasn't for the damn liberals taking their tax money, they'd be rich! And Dr. visits would only cost $5! (Meanwhile disregarding that they don't earn enough to pay taxes in the first place.)

I love listening to windbags go off on "MY TAX DOLLARS" when I know they don't pay any and are on food stamps (But that's not welfare, that's just them getting through a rough patch.)

Yes, Roger will rant about these folks for days, if you let him.  It's starting to rub off on me.  I wasn't paying attention to it before.  I'm not sure I want to thank him, if you get me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, Roger will rant about these folks for days, if you let him.  It's starting to rub off on me.  I wasn't paying attention to it before.  I'm not sure I want to thank him, if you get me.

Yeah, totally. It's one of those "I can't un-know!" things. 

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm sure there is a reason that govt. health care would work only at the national level, and not at the state level?

People would pour in from neighboring states to free healthcare land when they got injured.

I haven't seen that effect here. Relocating is expensive and difficult; moreso when you're poor and sick.

this isn't quite the same thing, but if I or ECHGF has to go to the ER for anything not immediately life-threatening, we go across the river to Vancouver because by law in WA unpaid medical bills cannot go on your credit report and any unpaid debts have a statute of limitations of 7 years from the date of last contact from the creditor. IOW, if you can duck them for 7 years, the debt gets wiped clean with no impact on your credit at all.

[Freeky]

I'm sure there is a reason that govt. health care would work only at the national level, and not at the state level?

People would pour in from neighboring states to free healthcare land when they got injured.

I haven't seen that effect here. Relocating is expensive and difficult; moreso when you're poor and sick.

this isn't quite the same thing, but if I or ECHGF has to go to the ER for anything not immediately life-threatening, we go across the river to Vancouver because by law in WA unpaid medical bills cannot go on your credit report and any unpaid debts have a statute of limitations of 7 years from the date of last contact from the creditor. IOW, if you can duck them for 7 years, the debt gets wiped clean with no impact on your credit at all.

Lucky bastard. 

[Triple Zero]

I don't want anyone dying a horrible painful death because they can't pay for it. 

I agree 100%... except I would make one modification:

I don't want anyone dying a horrible painful death because they can't pay for it, unless they choose to.

Well I think that's rather strange, but whatever you like.

However, some of us (I would even like to think, a lot of us), just don;t want anyone dying a horrible painful death because they can't pay for it, regardless whether they "choose" to or not. Because guess what? I believe that there are zillions of people that are terribly stupid. And they will choose, and no, I'd prefer them to be able to afford healthcare instead of dying or suffering. Because it's not just about dying a horrible death, healthcare is about not suffering in general and being healthy in general.

Now what?

[Reginald Ret]

Regarding taxation=theft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLxYNM1ziFI

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Regarding taxation=theft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLxYNM1ziFI

Fatcats swindling tax money into their bank accounts is theft, not taxation itself.

Do try again.

[Doktor Howl]

Regarding taxation=theft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLxYNM1ziFI

Fatcats swindling tax money into their bank accounts is theft, not taxation itself.

Do try again.

Taxation is lawful, thus not theft.

[Remington]

Relevant:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201002260026?lid=1099780

LIMBAUGH: You know I'm getting so many people -- this Louise Slaughter comment on the dentures? I'm getting so many people -- this is big. I mean, that gets a one-time mention for a laugh, but there are people out there that think this is huge because it's so stupid. I mean, for example, well, what's wrong with using a dead person's teeth? Aren't the Democrats big into recycling? Save the planet? And so what? So if you don't have any teeth, so what? What's applesauce for? Isn't that why they make applesauce?

Limbaugh previously told a caller who could not afford the $6,000 it would cost to treat a broken wrist that he "shouldn't have broken [his] wrist."

Beck mocks Slaughter's story: "I've read the Constitution ... I didn't see that you had a right to teeth."

[Doktor Howl]

The problem with this outright callousness is that none of his fans will care unless something happens to them, personally.

[Juana]

It's this kind of conversation that made me miss this place.

Nigel,
that's why i think everything that can possibly be done at the state level should be left to the states,  there would be competition of systems, and those that wish to be governed one way could move to the appropriate state, and the others to another state.
saying, "love it or leave it" in regards to the entire country is silly when we could simply have more variation domestically. (and, in fact, should by the original intent)

California is positively swimming in debt. If your system were in place and I were on public insurance, I'd be fucked until things were ok again because my condition is expensive to treat and I probably wouldn't be all that high on the to-treat list anyway.

A national system would be exclusive of the states (presumably) so people like me with expensive, but not life threatening, conditions would still be able to get treatment. And actually, doing that might help cut down on the homelessness rate. That usually caused by mental illnesses, right? Mental illnesses would be treated as soon as they were caught and perhaps there would be fewer homeless.

[Doktor Howl]

It's this kind of conversation that made me miss this place.

Guido?

[Juana]

It's this kind of conversation that made me miss this place.

Guido?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just saying I haven't seen many forums with conversations quite like this and I missed it when I left. That's all.