Frequently asked questions..

[LMNO]

But I think moving away from original state alone doesn't imply something becoming arranged chaotically.  It's just a different state of order.  Kind of like changing states of matter.  You melt an ice cube in a glass.  There is still order, just order in a different form. 

So where is the balance of disorder?

Dissipation of energy expenditure. 

I was wondering how quickly we'd get to the science-y bits of it.

I am going to look into this. As a sentinent state there is an ice cube. In the change there is disorder as it reorganizes itself, then again order as it stabalizes as water.

I don't know this for fact but I think it is worth using a few brain cells on.

Did you mean to use that word?

[Adios]

But I think moving away from original state alone doesn't imply something becoming arranged chaotically.  It's just a different state of order.  Kind of like changing states of matter.  You melt an ice cube in a glass.  There is still order, just order in a different form. 

So where is the balance of disorder?

Dissipation of energy expenditure. 

I was wondering how quickly we'd get to the science-y bits of it.

I am going to look into this. As a sentinent state there is an ice cube. In the change there is disorder as it reorganizes itself, then again order as it stabalizes as water.

I don't know this for fact but I think it is worth using a few brain cells on.

Did you mean to use that word?

No, it's early, rough night.  See stable.

[Triple Zero]

than we're talking about the original, unnameable, indescribable state that existed before order or disorder. It is FROM this chaos that order and disorder can be born.

In that case, I would argue that the M&Ms were in a chaotic state before you opened the bag

SEE??

I SAID THAT

it's two against one, LMNO

this is DEMOCRATIC CHAOS

[AFK]

If we're talking about CHAOS

as in CHAOS DISCORD CONFUSION BUREAUCRACY AFTERMATH

than we're talking about the original, unnameable, indescribable state that existed before order or disorder. It is FROM this chaos that order and disorder can be born.

In that case, I would argue that the M&Ms were in a chaotic state before you opened the bag

But can that kind of CHAOS come from Order?  Because it was an orderly process, assembly line, that put the M&Ms inside the bag.  So Order and Disorder come from CHAOS, but can CHAOS come from Order?  

[LMNO]

But I think moving away from original state alone doesn't imply something becoming arranged chaotically.  It's just a different state of order.  Kind of like changing states of matter.  You melt an ice cube in a glass.  There is still order, just order in a different form. 

So where is the balance of disorder?

Dissipation of energy expenditure. 

I was wondering how quickly we'd get to the science-y bits of it.

I am going to look into this. As a sentinent state there is an ice cube. In the change there is disorder as it reorganizes itself, then again order as it stabalizes as water.

I don't know this for fact but I think it is worth using a few brain cells on.

Did you mean to use that word?

No, it's early, rough night.  See stable.

I still think it's a question of perception, though.  Ice has a hexagonal structure, it's true.  However, as you've seen on ponds and in snowflakes, the way the crystals come together and form larger structures could be considered random, as in unpredictable.

[Adios]

But I think moving away from original state alone doesn't imply something becoming arranged chaotically.  It's just a different state of order.  Kind of like changing states of matter.  You melt an ice cube in a glass.  There is still order, just order in a different form. 

So where is the balance of disorder?

Dissipation of energy expenditure. 

I was wondering how quickly we'd get to the science-y bits of it.

I am going to look into this. As a sentinent state there is an ice cube. In the change there is disorder as it reorganizes itself, then again order as it stabalizes as water.

I don't know this for fact but I think it is worth using a few brain cells on.

Did you mean to use that word?

No, it's early, rough night.  See stable.

I still think it's a question of perception, though.  Ice has a hexagonal structure, it's true.  However, as you've seen on ponds and in snowflakes, the way the crystals come together and form larger structures could be considered random, as in unpredictable.

Ok, I may have it. As in all things the disorder comes in the form of creation?

Hawk,
trying to make sense of Discordia. Needs mental help.

[Adios]

If we're talking about CHAOS

as in CHAOS DISCORD CONFUSION BUREAUCRACY AFTERMATH

than we're talking about the original, unnameable, indescribable state that existed before order or disorder. It is FROM this chaos that order and disorder can be born.

In that case, I would argue that the M&Ms were in a chaotic state before you opened the bag

But can that kind of CHAOS come from Order?  Because it was an orderly process, assembly line, that put the M&Ms inside the bag.  So Order and Disorder come from CHAOS, but can CHAOS come from Order?  

Even the seemingly disordered color mixture is a calculated, orderly process.

[LMNO]

Ok, I may have it. As in all things the disorder comes in the form of creation?

Hawk,
trying to make sense of Discordia. Needs mental help.

Order is our ability to make patterns in what we percieve.

Disorder is when we can't find any patterns.

So, whether something is Ordered or Disordered is completely up to the person's ability to find a pattern.

[Cramulus]

If we're talking about CHAOS

as in CHAOS DISCORD CONFUSION BUREAUCRACY AFTERMATH

than we're talking about the original, unnameable, indescribable state that existed before order or disorder. It is FROM this chaos that order and disorder can be born.

In that case, I would argue that the M&Ms were in a chaotic state before you opened the bag

But can that kind of CHAOS come from Order?  Because it was an orderly process, assembly line, that put the M&Ms inside the bag.  So Order and Disorder come from CHAOS, but can CHAOS come from Order?  

yeah,

chaos is "the uncarved block" - the rock which has not yet been carved into a statue. It contains a million possible statues.

Even after you order something, it is still in a state of chaos because that thing still has potential to be other things.

for example

If you order the M&Ms into piles based on colors,
and eventually you're going to eat the M&Ms,
then the M&Ms are still in a state of chaos regarding whether or not they've been eaten.

If you order the M&Ms into "smashed up" and "not smashed up" piles, (and put all the M&Ms into the smashed up pile)
they are still in a state of chaos regarding their eventual status as a cookie ingredient

[LMNO]

[MATH-ish]

In a chosen Set, you have a criteria for Order.  Things in that Set are either ordered, or disordered.

However, those Things can also be part of a completely different Set of Order/Disorder.

So, in Set₁ the M&Ms in the bag are disordered (i.e. they have not been arranged in a pattern by the student).

However, in Set₂ the M&Ms in the bag are ordered, because someone took melted chocolate, formed it into an oblate spheroid, and wrapped a candy shell around it.


So, it all depends upon what you choose your set to be.  The Things are simply Things; it is only when you apply the Set that Order and Disorder arise.  And they arise because of what we choose not to include as criteria for our Set. 

It depends on what we Filter Out.

[Adios]

This is one of the best conversations I have been involved in for quite q while.

LMNO suggests, if I am reading right, that my perception of a pattern or lack of one is capable of creating disorder.

RWHN and Cram suggest that disorder exists in the uncertainty of a things future in spite of it's current condition.

Take a volcano. If a volcano erupts is this disorder or is the ordered behavior of a volcano just being a volcano?

[LMNO]

Actually, I think RWHN and Cram are saying CHAOS is the state of potential and uncertainty.


So, while Things can be Ordered or Disordered within a Set, the ability to choose multiple Sets for the same Things is CHAOS.

[Adios]

Actually, I think RWHN and Cram are saying CHAOS is the state of potential and uncertainty.


So, while Things can be Ordered or Disordered within a Set, the ability to choose multiple Sets for the same Things is CHAOS.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

[LMNO]

I could be wrong; we haven't fully defined our terms yet.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The best way to provide M&M's in a chaotic way would be to stuff them all in your mouth, chew them a bit and then open your mouth.

I agree with Cram and RWHN on the view of Chaos being No Pattern, (Gnopats, like Gnosis with less fap). I also think LMNO hit it on the head with the point that order and disorder are in the perception of the observer...

The correct answer to the M&M question then, would be to separate them all into different groups, put them back together, make new groups, put them back together, make yet another grouping, put them back together etc... by ordering, disordering and reordering the Chaos of the M&M's becomes apparent.