Roger, it's making me sick.

[nerinamakani]

Hit me. Baby.


As many times as you like.

[NotPublished]

shut up

[Kai]

Unfortunately, I can't stop giving a shit and sit back and enjoy the ride. I actually give a damn, probably in some selfish evolutionarily dependent way, but I do.

And I don't want to live on a planet when all there is left is semi-conscious biped monkeys and their shit. Seriously. Because while you could stack all 6.8 billion humans like lincoln logs tucked away in some inconspicuous corner of the grand canyon, the population keeps growing and everyone wants their American sized piece of pie, until the entire planet is one giant strip mall, industrial park and soylent green outlet.

I don't want to be around to see it.

Optimist.  Actually, it's turning into desert, and most of us won't be around to see which few species manage to adapt to it.  We are kings of creation, Kai.  Until the power and the food run out.

Then we're an evolutionary dead end.

But what can you do?  Cop out and kill yourself?  Thanks a bunch.  You're one of the less than 1% of people trained to do anything about it, on the off chance that people come to their senses before we reach the point of no return  species-wise...our current civilization has already passed that point.  The next civilization will have to crawl out of the mud with far less resources than we had after the last dark ages.

Seriously, aren't we evolving as well? Would an event like this speed up our evolution?

What if we evolved into nocturnal beings who could thrive on rattlesnakes, scorpions and cactus?

If anything, humans populations are stabilizing in outward differences (melanization, hair and eye color, facial structure) and gaining diversity in other traits (like various genetic defects that used to be lethal but now are easily treated). There's no directionality ATM.

Optimist.  Actually, it's turning into desert, and most of us won't be around to see which few species manage to adapt to it.  We are kings of creation, Kai.  Until the power and the food run out.

Then we're an evolutionary dead end.

But what can you do?  Cop out and kill yourself?  Thanks a bunch.  You're one of the less than 1% of people trained to do anything about it, on the off chance that people come to their senses before we reach the point of no return  species-wise...our current civilization has already passed that point.  The next civilization will have to crawl out of the mud with far less resources than we had after the last dark ages.

1) And I don't want to see it.

2) You don't have to convince me, I'm already convinced.

3) Not seeing the destruction of everything I consider valuable is preferable. Unless I feel it possible to Bhode, there's no ending the population growth which will make life oh so miserable, and not just from a biophilia standpoint either.

[Adios]

We are stabilizing? Then would it not follow that as Dok said we are at an evolutionary dead end and therefore doomed anyway?

[Kai]

We are stabilizing? Then would it not follow that as Dok said we are at an evolutionary dead end and therefore doomed anyway?

Stabilizing selection, where traits tend toward the middle of a bell curve in variation, becoming less diverse. But thats only for things like smudgyness. Like I said, genetically inherited diseases are going up in %, due to treatments, and our earthmoving and housebuilding which keeps us warm and safe from all troubles.

The evolutionary dead end is where our minds have outraced the ability of the rest of the biosphere to simply function, and since we are dependent on it, and the evolutionary valley we're in isn't going to easily change directions, we're kinda stuck this way. At least until a bottle neck comes along, a highly selective force acts upon the collective human phenotype, or we go extinct. Because right now we're combating natural selection (interspecific/environmental based) with artificial selection (intraspecific/human based), both in body and in epigenetics of culture.

The trend could be changed by reducing birthrates to 2.1 per woman worldwide, and breeding a whole bunch of biophiliacs. But I don't see that happening.

[Adios]

We are stabilizing? Then would it not follow that as Dok said we are at an evolutionary dead end and therefore doomed anyway?

Stabilizing selection, where traits tend toward the middle of a bell curve in variation, becoming less diverse. But thats only for things like smudgyness. Like I said, genetically inherited diseases are going up in %, due to treatments, and our earthmoving and housebuilding which keeps us warm and safe from all troubles.

The evolutionary dead end is where our minds have outraced the ability of the rest of the biosphere to simply function, and since we are dependent on it, and the evolutionary valley we're in isn't going to easily change directions, we're kinda stuck this way. At least until a bottle neck comes along, a highly selective force acts upon the collective human phenotype, or we go extinct. Because right now we're combating natural selection (interspecific/environmental based) with artificial selection (intraspecific/human based), both in body and in epigenetics of culture.

The trend could be changed by reducing birthrates to 2.1 per woman worldwide, and breeding a whole bunch of biophiliacs. But I don't see that happening.

I see what you mean. I have always thought that by insulating ourselves from our natural environment we were making ourselves as a race weaker. Our climate controlled houses, soft sleeping spaces, easy access to food, and a thousand other things are reducing our ability to survive in our natural environment.

Natural selection is being thwarted by scientific and medical advances. We have no natural predator unless it is disease and even that is being fought tooth and nail.

Out of morbid curiosity do you suppose the outdoor types who have lived that way for generations will be better poised to evolve and survive?

[Doktor Howl]

Optimist.  Actually, it's turning into desert, and most of us won't be around to see which few species manage to adapt to it.  We are kings of creation, Kai.  Until the power and the food run out.

Then we're an evolutionary dead end.

But what can you do?  Cop out and kill yourself?  Thanks a bunch.  You're one of the less than 1% of people trained to do anything about it, on the off chance that people come to their senses before we reach the point of no return  species-wise...our current civilization has already passed that point.  The next civilization will have to crawl out of the mud with far less resources than we had after the last dark ages.

1) And I don't want to see it.

2) You don't have to convince me, I'm already convinced.

3) Not seeing the destruction of everything I consider valuable is preferable. Unless I feel it possible to Bhode, there's no ending the population growth which will make life oh so miserable, and not just from a biophilia standpoint either.

Well, Kai, there you go.  You and everyone else here came here for many reasons, but you all have one thing in common:  You wanted to know just what the fuck is going on.  Hell, that's why you went to school for a real education, and not some rubber stamp MBA, isn't it?  Obviously.  You value knowledge over money or consumerist crap we are destroying the planet to churn out.

Well, you're starting to see the truth, and it's far, far uglier than any dystopian science fiction novel.  The masses of today will spend tomorrow begging for the existence portrayed in Brave New World or Logan's Run.  At least those places had food.  At least they had heat.  At least their governments, awful as they were depicted, didn't start wars for the purpose of deliberately destabilizing countries so that entire regions would be able to avoid the awful chaos you're just starting to see?  Why would they do that?  Isn't it obvious?  If it isn't, say so, and I'll be happy to explain...And it's not as conspiracy-theory-ish as you may think.  It's actually quite banal...Most evil is.

I've spent the last 15 years trying to make sense of things, trying to learn how to see things for what they really are, without filters.  I have recently, to some degree, succeeded.  And thus I am a Doktor.

And I told you all that I was a Doktor, but I never told you what KIND of Doktor.

I am a Doktor of Horror, and this is in fact my century.  

And I don't like it any more than you do.

But all this talk of "not being there to see it" makes me think that maybe you're having some unhealthy thoughts these days (I have some experience in unhealthy thoughts, you see), and while I can't in good conscience say that it would be a "stupid" thing to do, it certainly would be wasteful.  I mean, why check out, why back down and quit, when you can have a little revenge on the people who've been pooping all over everything you love?

Seriously, where are all the mad, mad Discordians?  What, exactly, are we all here for?

[Kai]

I know why. They want to bring about the second coming, but Jesus isn't coming to save them, so they're flat out of luck. Just don't know it yet.

I don't want revenge. I want my planet back. That's all. They can have Mars or something. Revenge won't bring back that which is gone forever. And it won't save what's still here.

I'm gonna go take some pills and "call" you in the morning, Dok. You know a thing or two about Horror, so how do you get rid of that sickness? How does a person treat heartache for the planet?

[Doktor Howl]

I know why. They want to bring about the second coming, but Jesus isn't coming to save them, so they're flat out of luck. Just don't know it yet.

Naw.  It's market control.  If you want oil, you just BUY it.  If, however, you want to control who gets to buy oil, and for how much, you need to have some form of control in the area.  Iraq fit the bill perfectly.  Former stable nation, now utterly dependent US vassal, sitting on a ton of oil, and threatening the rest of the region.

I don't want revenge. I want my planet back. That's all. They can have Mars or something. Revenge won't bring back that which is gone forever. And it won't save what's still here.

But it will make me feel a whole lot better.  

I'm gonna go take some pills and "call" you in the morning, Dok. You know a thing or two about Horror, so how do you get rid of that sickness? How does a person treat heartache for the planet?

Bug bomb it.

Naw, just kidding.  Humans fuck faster than you can kill them.  

Let me think about this for a bit.

[Kai]

I meant my own heartache, but I guess that as well.

[Doktor Howl]

I meant my own heartache, but I guess that as well.

Oh, my bad.  I totally misunderstood you.

Let me bounce this around, post a proper response tomorrow.  The retard has thrown me out of the zone.

[Kai]

I meant my own heartache, but I guess that as well.

Oh, my bad.  I totally misunderstood you.

Let me bounce this around, post a proper response tomorrow.  The retard has thrown me out of the zone.

Retards will do that.

[Captain Utopia]

Do you feel the same sadness for the dinosaurs, or for the countless species that existed and became extinct before there was anything around to even document them, and if not, why not?  Don't those unknown species outnumber the ones you mourn today?  Because to put it in the perspective of an anthropomorphised biosphere, it seems to me to be a creature which will outlive it's human phase -- I don't think we have the capability to destroy all life on the planet.  And what doesn't kill the biosphere only evolves it into something stronger?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Do you feel the same sadness for the dinosaurs, or for the countless species that existed and became extinct before there was anything around to even document them, and if not, why not?  Don't those unknown species outnumber the ones you mourn today?  Because to put it in the perspective of an anthropomorphised biosphere, it seems to me to be a creature which will outlive it's human phase -- I don't think we have the capability to destroy all life on the planet.  And what doesn't kill the biosphere only evolves it into something stronger?

WE'RE EXERCISING TROPICAL OLD-GROWTH: BIODIVERSITY IS GOING TO GET RIPPED.

OVERWEIGHT MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL: THE WATERSHEDS ARE GOING TO BE SO RIPPED.

OIL SPILLS ARE SURPRISE TRAINING SESSIONS: THE GULF IS GOING TO BE RIPPED.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Kai, this may or may not help, but I'm going to give it a stab.

I think that I saw Vladimir Poopin at one point post that it's never too late even if you are literally dying. It ain't over until it's over, and at that point, it's not going to matter to us anyway.

I'm presuming that, in your funk, and previously, you have made alterations to your life and etc., to make whatever positive impact that you can. Well, you're the scientist, what are they? Yeah we're a bunch of spags, but this spag doesn't want the planet to go down the shitter either. I'm presuming the rest of us don't either. So what should I do without going anarcho-primitivist? If we're going to/have already fuck(ed) this planet up beyond our survivability as a civilization, at least we tried to save our asses.

If we can't pull it off, well, the sun's gotta go nova some day anyway. And even further in the future there's that whole heat death/Big Rip problem.

But I'm not about to get depressed over it. We're still here aren't we? That means it's not too late.