Magic: Who thinks they can do it, and why otherwise intelligent people buy it.

[The Johnny]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

After years of agony provoked by the complete FAIL of this thread, i can finally rest in peace knowing that i managed to last enough to actually learn something.

<dies>

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

EDITED FOR CLARITY:

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Akhenaten equated Aten and Ra as one and the same. He was the Sun God of Midday... remember the Egyptians didn't have single duty deities. They had incarnations/aspects and those incarnation/aspects were often given their own names, much like the Hindu system.

The Aten was named Ra-Horus-Aten, because he was an aspect of Ra and included aspects of Horus.

The worship of a singular deity out of the pantheon was not original to Akhenaten (he was just the guy that tried to force it down other people's throats). Ra's followers had been trending that direction since the Middle Kingdom.


As for Religion and Ritual/Magic... they are not the same.

Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose existence. It generally includes some supernatural deity and a moral code.

Ritual is a series of actions performed mostly for their symbolic value. It 'can' be religious, it 'can' be based on the society you live in and not 'religious', it can be completely devoid of religion.

Masonic rituals, for example are not religious rituals.
Magic rituals may or may not be religious depending on the context and practitioners. For example, a Wiccan coven casting a circle and performing the Great Rite is religious ritual because its tied directly to their beliefs and their supernatural views. Antero Alli, performing a ritual with Para-theatrics is not religious at all, since there's no moral code, no supernatural entity and a lack of any required 'beliefs' or views on why/how the Universe got here.

Come on Page 50... and DILDOES!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

[East Coast Hustle]

What's the position we're arguing if it's not censorship? You want me to stop or admit it's a very bad thing? I'll happily admit that a great many things are very bad things, including the trappings of religion and the occult. Are we even debating anything here anymore?

I guess we aren't.

[East Coast Hustle]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

you can't argue with someone who honestly believes we can all be right at the same time, depending on what "model" we're using.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

More than read... learn to history.

Ra, from his earliest worship at Heliopolis to the end of the New Kingdom had several names, he had aspects which at different times were kinda of worshiped as different gods and at times were all Ra.

"The Aten" at least based on the poetry we have left, was originally an object, the Egg of Ra. Eventually the object was venerated (as we have priests of The Aten at Heliopolis). Ankenaten though equated Ra and Aten (no longer The Aten, but Aten an aspect of Ra).

Wikipedia, as that bastion of great and trustworthy information does actually make this point, but only in the topic on "Ra":

During the New Kingdom, the worship of Ra became more complicated and grandeur. The walls of tombs were dedicated to extremely detailed texts that told of Ra's journey through the underworld. Ra was said to carry the prayers and blessings of the living with the souls of the dead on the sun boat. The idea that Ra aged with the sun became more popular with the rise of The New Kingdom. Eventually, during the reign of Akhenaten(mid 1350s-1330s), the worship reached the level of "uncompromising monotheism" [/i

Ra and Aten are the same 'God'... they are different incarnations and Ankenaten gave him greater power and greater importance... but it was still Ra. In fact, Ankenaten claimed that the earlier belief that he was the Sun God was merely metaphorical and in fact he was the ONLY GOD. Up until the 9th year of his reign, Aten was pictured with the traditional Hawk's Head image of Ra. This representation stopped, not because Aten was not Ra, but because Ankenaten outlawed idols etc.

Aten can be seen as a deity, but not as a deity completely separate from  Ra. He is an incarnation of Ra, an expounded, more powerful interpretation of the Sun God which eventually lead to him being the Sole God (as the 'Great Hymn'  describes).

That is, while Ankenaten was pissing on Osiris and Amon-Ra etc... He did not pit Atun against Ra, rather he equated them as the same entity, with Aten being a 'better understanding' of Ra.. the fuller view that he's NOT ONLY the god of the Sun, but the God of everything.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

you can't argue with someone who honestly believes we can all be right at the same time, depending on what "model" we're using.

Err, I definitely don't believe that. I have never said that everyone is right depending on their model. Some models are terrible. Some are useful for some things, others are useful for other things. If you use the wrong model, you're wrong.

[BabylonHoruv]

Are you confusing 'ritual' and religion?

There's no difference.

Getting ready for work in the morning is a daily ritual for me.  I brush my teeth, shave, shower, deodorize, there is a set way I do this and I stick to my little ritual, it leaves me feeling awake and ready for the day.  That doesn't mean there is anything religious about it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

you can't argue with someone who honestly believes we can all be right at the same time, depending on what "model" we're using.

I'm not arguing so much as taking the piss.  I've been wanting to do this since he trashed my psycho letter just for cheap kicks.

One good turn deserves another.

[LMNO]

"WE CAN BE DILDOES... JUST FOR ONE DAY!"
         \

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ra worshippers weren't monotheistic.  Someone is confusing "Ra" and "Aten".

ETA:  I'm gonna have to add an UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG! here, as the standard gesture of respect to the expert who gets everything wrong.

Again, you're wrong twice over.

The cult of Ra (the Sun God) during the New Kingdom, esp under the rule of Akhenaten was a monotheistic one

Learn to History.

I notice you didn't link to your source, asshole.

While it's true that Aten originally was an aspect of Ra, during the reign of Ankenaten he was viewed as a different god with a different role, as a quick trip to Wikipedia would have shown you.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten   Ra as such was NEVER worshiped monotheistically.

LEARN 2 FUCKING READ, DUMBSHIT.

you can't argue with someone who honestly believes we can all be right at the same time, depending on what "model" we're using.

I'm not arguing so much as taking the piss.  I've been wanting to do this since he trashed my psycho letter just for cheap kicks.

One good turn deserves another.

I figured you were just arguing for fun...

Ah! PD.com the real Argument Clinic 

[Shai Hulud]

Its dildoes, all the way down.

See, this made the whole thread worth it.

[The Johnny]

Thank Goddess this thread didnt make it to 50 pages.

[Freeky]

This thread needs at least one whole page of 

[Epimetheus]

  how fitting.