Reid vs Rand on The Patriot Act

[Disco Pickle]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/05/25/Reid-duels-Rand-on-lapsing-Patriot-Act/UPI-33021306326539/

WASHINGTON, May 25 (UPI) -- The federal Patriot Act could briefly expire by the end of the week if U.S. Sen. Rand Paul insists on votes for controversial amendments, officials say.

The Hill newspaper said if the lapse occurs it could severely impact the law enforcement community, which uses it to track suspected terrorists.

Tuesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., tabled a motion to extend the Patriot Act in what the newspaper said was a complicated maneuver to circumvent Paul, R-Ky. The maneuver was designed to save time while Paul resists the extension of the law, which expires at 12:01 a.m. Friday, Senate aides told the newspaper.

After Reid was able to table a previous motion to proceed to the Patriot Act by a vote of 74-13, he picked up a privileged message from the House to which he added the Patriot Act extension as a substitute, The Hill said.

Reid then filed cloture on the bill, giving the Senate a chance to vote Thursday on cutting off Paul's filibuster.

But the newspaper warned if Paul insists on using all 30 hours of post-cloture debate Senate rules give him, he could force the Patriot Act to lapse for a day. And even if Paul waives post-cloture debate, lawmakers will have to rush to get the extension signed into law by Thursday because President Obama is in Europe.

The Hill said aides will have to fly a copy of the four-year Patriot Act extension to Europe if they are to prevent law-enforcement powers from expiring.

One of Paul's proposed amendments says authority to obtain information under the Patriot Act does not include certain firearms records

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

[Adios]

He's taken a few stands that forced me to side with him.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

What exactly are all the amendments hes proposing?

[BabylonHoruv]

I'm glad to see him doing this.  It's not really that meaningful if it lapses for a day, unfortunately.

[Disco Pickle]

What exactly are all the amendments hes proposing?

From here: http://www.randpaul2010.com/2011/05/senator-rand-paul-introduces-amendments-to-usa-patriot-act-extension-bill/

· Burden-Shifting Suspicious Activity Report Amendment: Requires law enforcement to initiate requests for suspicious activity reports (SARs). Shifts the burden for generating suspicious activity reports to law enforcement, requiring FBI/other law enforcement to initiate requests for SARs, rather than requiring financial institutions to automatically generate these reports.

o Supported by Kentucky Bankers Association and National Association of Federal Credit Unions

· National Security Letters Issued by Judges: States that no officer or employee of the United States may issue a National Security Letter (NSL) unless a FISA court judge finds that probable cause exists to issue the NSL. Brings NSLs into compliance with plain text of Fourth Amendment.

· Firearm Records Amendment: Clarifies that the authority to obtain info under the USA PATRIOT Act does not include authority to obtain certain firearm records. Supported by Gun Owners of America.

· Roving Wiretaps Amendment: This amendment eliminates the possibility of "John Doe" roving wiretaps that identify neither the person nor the phone to be wiretapped. Also requires government agents to ascertain the presence of the target of a roving wiretap before beginning surveillance of a particular phone or email, using the same standard that is already required for criminal roving taps.

· Leahy/Paul Amendment: This amendment consists of the substance of Sen. Patrick Leahy's (D-Vt.) PATRIOT Act reform bill (S. 193) as reported from the Judiciary Committee. The vote was 10-7 (those voting in favor included Sen. Mike Lee [R-Utah]).

o Sen. Paul is co-sponsoring Sen. Leahy's amendment.

· Section 215/Access to Business Records: Restores the pre-PATRIOT Act standard for obtaining records.

o Supported by the American Library Association (ALA) and the Association of Research Libraries (ARL).

· "Good Faith Standard" Suspicious Activity Report Amendment: This amendment would implement a reform that was previously proposed by the Financial Services Roundtable. This reform will help reduce the high number of "defensive filings" submitted by financial institutions due to their fear of being penalized for failure to file a suspicious activity report (SAR). It codifies a "good faith standard" to ensure that if a financial institution has established a SAR decision-making process, has followed existing policies, procedures, and processes, and determines not to file a SAR, the bank or credit union would not be penalized for its failure to file the SAR unless the failure was accompanied by evidence of bad faith.

Supported by Kentucky Bankers Association and National Association of Federal Credit Unions

· Judicial Review of Suspicious Activity Reports: States that the Secretary of the Treasury may not require any financial institution to submit a suspicious activity report unless an appropriate district court of the United States issues an order finding that probable cause exists to obtain the information.

· Minimization/Destruction of NSL and Section 215 Business Records Info: Directs the Attorney General to establish minimization and destruction procedures governing the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of private information by the FBI. The purpose is to ensure that private information obtained outside the scope of an NSL or Section 215 order is appropriately disposed of or destroyed.

His real wish is to let the entire thing expire but the political reality prevents that.  

[Requia ☣]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

[BabylonHoruv]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

[Disco Pickle]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

Check your facts.  Or the thread about this when it happened.

Alternatively you could just continue to pull shit out of your ass and present them as facts.

That gets you a long way these days no matter what your political leanings, apparently.

What those assholes did to her can never be excused, and his apology for it was limp dicked at best. 

That being the truth, writing what you wrote as if it were fact does allow me to call you an ignorant fuckneck who doesn't bother to check his facts, and thus you are part of the problem no less than some right wing ass hat spouting shit he knows nothing about.

That's right BH.  You're no better than the right wing fucks you criticize for not bothering to research and learn about a subject before they open their mouths about it.

Enjoy being no more informed than anyone else who apparently have vocal cords in their colon.

[Requia ☣]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

Whoops.  I'll retain some small measure of hope then.

[Requia ☣]

Apparently, Rand is really interested in making the gun lobby happy, not trying to block the Patriot act.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/vote-on-patriot-act-extension-delayed-as-rand-paul-pushes-for-amendment-on-gun-rights/2011/05/25/AGhzDJBH_blog.html

[Disco Pickle]

Apparently, Rand is really interested in making the gun lobby happy, not trying to block the Patriot act.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/vote-on-patriot-act-extension-delayed-as-rand-paul-pushes-for-amendment-on-gun-rights/2011/05/25/AGhzDJBH_blog.html

I debated with myself on whether or not to even respond to this post.  I don't yet hold the sort of vitriol you get from others on this board, but you're doing yourself no favors ITT.

You apparently didn't read the link I posted originally, or the one in answer to Lord Snatch.

Oh, and forget entirely that The Washington Post would NEVER deliberately leave out the other amendments he's trying to get added and only focus on the one that would get a liberals' blood all a fiar.

Nope, would never happen.

They can remove liberties as long as they get those nasty people who want to have guns too, right?

[BabylonHoruv]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

Check your facts.  Or the thread about this when it happened.

Alternatively you could just continue to pull shit out of your ass and present them as facts.

That gets you a long way these days no matter what your political leanings, apparently.

What those assholes did to her can never be excused, and his apology for it was limp dicked at best. 

That being the truth, writing what you wrote as if it were fact does allow me to call you an ignorant fuckneck who doesn't bother to check his facts, and thus you are part of the problem no less than some right wing ass hat spouting shit he knows nothing about.

That's right BH.  You're no better than the right wing fucks you criticize for not bothering to research and learn about a subject before they open their mouths about it.

Enjoy being no more informed than anyone else who apparently have vocal cords in their colon.

I'm pretty sure I never criticized them for that actually.

What I was criticizing for was hiring jackbooted thugs as security.  Something I am pretty sure I am not guilty of.

[Disco Pickle]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

Check your facts.  Or the thread about this when it happened.

Alternatively you could just continue to pull shit out of your ass and present them as facts.

That gets you a long way these days no matter what your political leanings, apparently.

What those assholes did to her can never be excused, and his apology for it was limp dicked at best. 

That being the truth, writing what you wrote as if it were fact does allow me to call you an ignorant fuckneck who doesn't bother to check his facts, and thus you are part of the problem no less than some right wing ass hat spouting shit he knows nothing about.

That's right BH.  You're no better than the right wing fucks you criticize for not bothering to research and learn about a subject before they open their mouths about it.

Enjoy being no more informed than anyone else who apparently have vocal cords in their colon.

I'm pretty sure I never criticized them for that actually.

What I was criticizing for was hiring jackbooted thugs as security.  Something I am pretty sure I am not guilty of.

Never happened.

I'm not going to do your research for you. 

Do it yourself, or don't. 

Willful ignorance used to really piss me off and still does when I'm not busy otherwise really fucking enjoying not listening and reading the thoughts of the uninformed.   You don't qualify as important enough to piss me off.
 

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

dislike him for his other positions, but he seems to be the only one on either side riding the correct motorcycle on this one.

Which is a great indicator of just how screwed we are.

Ron Paul is an excellent political barometer, if he says it should be done it will never happen, ever.

This isn't Ron Paul, this is Rand Paul.  Ron's son, who had his security beat up a woman journalist.

Check your facts.  Or the thread about this when it happened.

Alternatively you could just continue to pull shit out of your ass and present them as facts.

That gets you a long way these days no matter what your political leanings, apparently.

What those assholes did to her can never be excused, and his apology for it was limp dicked at best. 

That being the truth, writing what you wrote as if it were fact does allow me to call you an ignorant fuckneck who doesn't bother to check his facts, and thus you are part of the problem no less than some right wing ass hat spouting shit he knows nothing about.

That's right BH.  You're no better than the right wing fucks you criticize for not bothering to research and learn about a subject before they open their mouths about it.

Enjoy being no more informed than anyone else who apparently have vocal cords in their colon.

I'm pretty sure I never criticized them for that actually.

What I was criticizing for was hiring jackbooted thugs as security.  Something I am pretty sure I am not guilty of.

Never happened.

I'm not going to do your research for you. 

Do it yourself, or don't. 

Willful ignorance used to really piss me off and still does when I'm not busy otherwise really fucking enjoying not listening and reading the thoughts of the uninformed.   You don't qualify as important enough to piss me off.
 

Yes, do your research BH.  The thug who stomped on that woman's head was wearing tennis shoes, not jackboots.

[Requia ☣]

Apparently, Rand is really interested in making the gun lobby happy, not trying to block the Patriot act.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/vote-on-patriot-act-extension-delayed-as-rand-paul-pushes-for-amendment-on-gun-rights/2011/05/25/AGhzDJBH_blog.html

I debated with myself on whether or not to even respond to this post.  I don't yet hold the sort of vitriol you get from others on this board, but you're doing yourself no favors ITT.

You apparently didn't read the link I posted originally, or the one in answer to Lord Snatch.

Oh, and forget entirely that The Washington Post would NEVER deliberately leave out the other amendments he's trying to get added and only focus on the one that would get a liberals' blood all a fiar.

Nope, would never happen.

They can remove liberties as long as they get those nasty people who want to have guns too, right?

They did in fact mention the other amendments.  I fail to see why changing the Patriot act to better reflect what he wants is worth a damn though.  Hell, even the ammendment that seems like a good idea, the one to require a judge's signature on the NSLs, moves it to the goddamned FISA court.