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Messages - Cramulus

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yeah, when he was emerging, it seemed like he could have just become an innocuous pop-psych guru that helps explain Jung/Campbell to lost teens that need role models

In the bible series, you can see the stormclouds of what's to come. At the end of the lecture, he opens the floor up for questions. And people really want to talk to him about his controversial social justice opinions. And he leans into it, hard, and it gradually takes over his lectures.

my fav response to Peterson is from Contrapoints

ah, I long for the naievity of this time last year

Apple Talk / Re: Spagbook
« on: August 02, 2018, 08:47:59 pm »
Me, Cainad, and Triple Zero (and some others) hanging out in Amsterdam

My new armor:

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Free Russian Orphans with Every Purchase
« on: July 18, 2018, 06:29:18 pm »
"I know you all are distracted with Trussia right now, but I think it's time to get back to the real news - as in, what the heck is happening in Tucson?"

Apple Talk / Re: Introductions, Part VI: Welcome to Our PD Party
« on: July 18, 2018, 01:06:59 pm »
Hi, Iím Puck, or Stephen, or something.  Iím sitting in my work vehicle while my coworker looks at a grenade someone found in a hole.  This is not what every day is like, but itís not as weird as I think it should be; I feel thereís something in that.  At least thereís good music on the radio.


I'm dizz. Late 20s and mostly directionless, I work a desk job and its pretty boring but I take the time to read, listen, and create. I like a little of everything macabre and spooky, occult or spiritual.

I keep reading about PD and it kept coming to my attention over and over again, especially as I was moving through literature about consciousness, Leary and Wilson and the like. Well holy shit guys, after some curious web searching, I found you. You seem like some properly open folks here.


Hello you two! As the latest two people to join the forum, you are hereby linked at the glandular level and are now required to be our leaders. Please discuss the future of the forum and decide it for us.

Principia Discussion / The New Wave
« on: July 17, 2018, 01:38:01 pm »
Discordians have spent generations writing and chattering about the freedom of this disorganized irreligion. In a lot of our writings we talk about how you can make it about anything you want, there is no true Discordia there is only My Discordia and Your Discordia and they don't have to connect because we're all popes.

So in comes baby 2017, the year of "fake news", "alt-right", pepe & kek, the new flowing of Nationalism, extreme polarization. Out goes old man 2017, in comes baby 2018, the year of Trump, the cats and dogs, living together, mass hysteria.

There's a new Discordian out there now. Mmmm, maybe they're not 'new'; there have always been jackasses -- but today, if you scroll through a Facebook Discordian group, or search the depths of the chans for Discordian presence, you'll find this dark type of Discordian...

We're talking about the right wing trolls. We're talking about the unrepentant racists. We're talking about bad faith arguments that stick it to the libs. We're not really about improving the world we live in so much as pissing off the enemy, breaking the foundation of their house, and then pissing on it. We're celebrating pain and suffering as long as it's hitting people on the other team.

It's true, Trump rides chaos, a defiance of the previous order -- I can't deny that. And Discordia has always had some libertarianism in its DNA. (Robert Anton Wilson identified as a libertarian, but more as a european-style libertarian because he thought the Ayn Rand-style libertarians are not nearly cautious enough about corporate power). But I still find it so weird that these anti-authoritarian/libertarian type Discordians have gotten on board with authoritarian demagogues. I don't sense any joy or playfulness in this crowd, nor curiosity and creativity - their lulz are meme warfare. To talk to them is to war.

So they may be shitheads, fine.

Are they "Bad Discordians"?

Does "Bad Discordian" have any meaning? I know we owe nothing to Eris, being a 'bad discordian' is not like being a 'bad christian' where you're violating some shared communal values or a moral code written on a stone tablet.  And it's not our style to pull out some book written a long time ago and point to a line and say "See? This book says you're doing it wrong."

does the new wave represent a change, or was this Discordia all along?

It falls on us, in 2018, to answer the question ---

Discordia can be anything you want it to be... Are there limits? Is there an edge?

"What you want" is probably tied up in egoistic shit and tribal warfare

As the increasingly old guard of Eris' treehouse, how should we relate to that? do we have any grounds to preach against it? (not that it would help, because most popes are all Send and very little Receive)

and to be clear, I'm not talking about political ideology.

I'm asking... Can Discordia be saved? Should it be saved?

« on: July 06, 2018, 09:22:48 pm »

Principia Discussion / Re: How Discordian are you?
« on: July 06, 2018, 02:11:27 pm »
How Discordian am I???

watch this, and you tell me:

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: July 05, 2018, 02:12:55 pm »
Hey Cramulus, have you explored Sufism much?

If so, what do you think of it compared to Gurdjieff's work? (as he is known to have been heavily inspired by it). I'm a Sufi Muslim (highly heretical mind you) myself, aside from being part Discordian, so this is an area of constant learning. I definitely like Gurdjieff a lot anyway.

I've only dipped my toe in it - listened to a lecture about it in college, and read a handful of little articles and perspectives - yeah, there's a lot of shared ground. I would love a reccommendation for something short length to read about it.

Those dances tho! Spiraling closer and closer to the center... so cool. I understand that there are sufi practices that steer the practitioner into an ecstatic trance. I wonder how much common ground there is with the Gurdjieff Movements. 

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Free Russian Orphans with Every Purchase
« on: July 04, 2018, 03:09:13 pm »
Interesting thought:  The same gene that expresses as a love for mariachi music also is responsible for polka.


I need to think about this.

It's true.  Both forms of music involve accordions and the implied need to rupture everyone's eardrums with the excessive volume needed to drown the accordions out.

There is nothing good about either genre, they are in fact the SAME genre, and that genre is based on an angry demon-god who aims to punish us for whatever the fuck we did to piss it off.  It's the only explanation.  Science cannot tell you WHY accordions do what they do.  If you chop one in half, there is NOTHING INSIDE that would make that HORRIBLE NOISE.  Like bag pipes, only with less spit.

If you remove the accordions from polka, I think it becomes ska
which is the comic sans of music genres, just saying

Quote from: Trivial

No one has made bratwurst tacos yet.
This is how Trivial made us all millionaires.

Yeah, jesus, that sounds great - taco shell with bratwurst, sauer kraut, mustard... sign me up

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: July 03, 2018, 06:45:43 pm »
So I can get self-actualization by, say, stepping into that big tank of saltwater crocodiles they have in Australia?

Or is this more of a "I'm intentionally putting 1970s Pink Floyd on infinite repeat" thing?

it depends on attitude

If you have arachnophobia, most contact with spiders will cause you to panic.

If you are treating your own arachnophobia, you have to intentionally expose yourself to them.

Part of the Gurdjieff work (and part of the Discordian Jailbreak) is approaching the spider on purpose. If you are aware of how your mind is going to react, if you can observe the automatic as it's happening, you have created something that is outside of that kneejerk automatic response. That something can moderate your automatic responses - and it can be trained like a muscle. It's kind of like willpower, but also includes self-awareness.

The attitude is key. If someone doesn't want to overcome their spider phobia, then exposure to spiders is only going to cause panic. They have to want to overcome that reaction for the exposure to be therapeutic. They have to approach the spider with a certain mindset and goal.

If we accept that the self is a collective of competing impulses, competing selves,
and one of the reasons I can't change my life is that I get obssessed with "what I find pleasurable" and repelled by "what I don't find pleasurable"

-- then the course of my life is really dicated by the law of accident.

But if I can make a conscious decision, if I can escape from the two headed trap of WANT and DO NOT WANT, then I have an opportunity to arrive somewhere else.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: July 03, 2018, 06:10:55 pm »
I think it'll just be limited to Dues, and they are flexible about how much you pay--which is generally not a characteristic of predatory cults.

One of the things I'm sensitive to is that in the Work, there's the idea of "conscious labor and intentional suffering" -- as a means of provoking presence and consciousness. That the self isn't usually found during comfort or complacency, it's easier to find it by experiencing a struggle consciously, by intentionally seeking out stuff you would normally avoid.

And so sometimes there are "work days" where people are literally just doing labor - cleaning, cooking, sorting, inventory, etc. And that's seen as a meditative practice.

But I know this - Gurdjieff got an awful lot of free labor out of his followers. I don't know where exactly the line is between asceticism and extortion. And maybe I won't know it until I get there.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: July 03, 2018, 02:23:31 pm »
Good advice, cats! Just wanted to share one more line I remembered from the previous meeting.

When you're PRESENT, the outside world leaves a stronger impression on your nervous system. Your memories of that moment are clearer. You can then think more clearly because you have better data. When the outside world and inside world are well connected, you're more alive.

Gurdjieff once said the point of the whole work was

"Everything more vivid."

Aneristic Illusions / Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« on: June 28, 2018, 11:22:20 pm »
Here's a page on the actual-ass DHS website:

14-world title beginning "We Must Secure"

arbitrary use of the number 88

dog whistle:

Is this for real?

Is this real life?

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: June 28, 2018, 03:46:52 pm »
Thank you - I appreciate that people are following! Sometimes people pull on my sleeve and tell me "I like your Gurdjieff thread, I just have nothing to add" - which is cool, and I understand that a lot of my posts are a big wall of text, but feel free to jump and give your reactions too :P

The old timers in the group tell me that sometimes these "preparatory groups" have a code of secrecy. Not because our discussions are actually secret, but because stuff said in the group has a certain quality and reality - a face to face connection, a physical presence -- which is not present if you were to listen to a recording of it, or read my typed-up notes. The Gurdjieff Work is part of the oral tradition, and all I can really share with you guys is a 1-step degraded account of it.

I remembered another little note from the meeting the other day which I wanted to share -- when talking about this question "What Do I REALLY Value?"

Anyone remember Crowley's talk about the Hunchback and the Soldier?

ie ? and !

The Question Mark is called the Hunchback. This gnarly little character pops up when you want to know something.
The Exclamation Point is called the Soldier. It's the answer to the question. Every time the hunchback pops up, we call on the soldier to beat him back down.

The Questioning part of your mind is creative, thoughtful, analytical, awake.
The Answering part of your mind is like a stop sign. Once a question is answered, the question vanishes and we rest.

Maybe the hunchback is the better part of us.
Maybe we should check the soldier before he beats down the hunchback.

Try letting the gnarly hunchback stand--he can explore the landscape in a way the soldier can not.

What do I REALLY value? is a hunchback

instead of racing to answer the question, maybe let it stand there, let it explore the landscape

Instead of searching the past and present for your values, maybe the answer is in the future - maybe there are new values that can be discovered in this moment. Maybe you can be surprised by yourself.

Quote from: That old liar, Castaneda
You see, we only have two alternatives; we either take everything for sure and real, or we don't. If we follow the first, we end up bored to death with ourselves and with the world. If we follow the second and erase personal history, we create a fog around us, a very exciting and mysterious state in which nobody knows where the rabbit will pop out, not even ourselves.

      When nothing is for sure we remain alert, perennially on our toes. It is more exciting not to know which bush the rabbit is hiding behind than to behave as though we know everything.

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