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Messages - Cramulus

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Apple Talk / Re: The Gates of Hell
« on: December 10, 2019, 05:26:54 pm »
Some people have suggested The Thinker is Rodin himself.

on that note, here's a self portrait I drew

The curious allure of hell for some thinkers may itself be the first step on the road to it. Having some kind of enarmount and fascination with evil, which inevitably ends up glorifying it no matter how you try to portray it and that goes for Dante as well as Rodin. He cannot critique Dante without being himself guilty of his same sins.

it's true - Dante was terrified of hell, but also saw it as a place of divine wisdom, a site for justice

as he takes potshots at his enemies in italy, he seeks to participate in divine justice

It also has the literal biblical metaphor, the Original Sin was to eat from the tree of knowledge and get the ability to choose.

That's a good observation - its knowledge of good and evil that allows sin to happen. That knowledge is also what makes Adam and Eve ashamed of their nudity - so it's interesting that the Thinker is naked.

I also wonder about the three figures above the thinker - the shades

It resonates with Dante's vision, which envisioned Lucifer as a three-headed monster - which is also symmetrical to the holy trinity.

But "shades" are how Dante describes the dead you see in the afterlife - so who are these three?

Apple Talk / Re: The Gates of Hell
« on: December 10, 2019, 04:43:18 pm »
Okay, so here's what it brings to mind for me...

Reason is something we have to be a little skeptical of. Because reason and intellect is not an end, it's a means. Reason is usually in the service to the emotions. It's like Wilson says - the thinker is slow.

It's very rare to use reason to actually decide something - usually, we make a decision based on emotional factors, and then build a chain of reason as a scaffold underneath it.

And because of this--the fact that most reason is slave to the emotions--you can justify anything. All the horrors of the 20th century had strong, well argued philosophical underpinnings. The thinker, sitting atop the gate to hell, is a warning - that by merely listening to "reason", you can justify hellish and terrible things.

Rodin originally called the figure "The Poet", not the Thinker. So you could imagine that it's Dante contemplating hell. But the musclebound and naked Thinker doesn't match how Dante describes himself in the poem (he's slim and ... fully clothed). I also like to think that the Thinker poised above the gates to hell might be someone lost in indecision, contemplating the suffering he could create through his plans. This positions hell as an internal state, something that's inside of us, emergent from our human sins.

Dante's vision of the afterlife is a place of justice, a place where people get what they sowed in life. Maybe the thinker is guilty, and what we see depicted on the gate is his internal experience of it, his intense experience of his own sins.

there are a few other ways to cut it, but those are some of the things that struck me about that curious image

Now knowing that Aeon Flux is an exploration of gnostic myth, I felt like I should revisit it -- watched a handful of episodes a few years ago and just cringed the whole time. It didn't land for me. Are you saying some parts are better than others? I watched a few of the short non-talky ones, and then the one with the Demiurge... didn't really sift anything from it.

Apple Talk / Re: New version of QGP site up!
« on: December 09, 2019, 10:41:14 pm »
I'm afraid QGP's website will be most operational by the time your friends arrive

(that's emperor palpatine--right? sure)

Literate Chaotic / Re: This Guy
« on: December 09, 2019, 07:30:14 pm »
I like this bit:

We learned two things on that Black Tuesday. First, robots can sexually harass each other in some kind of infinite recursive loop until they boil their coolant from overwork and explode. Second, the Dow Jones industrial average really likes it when they do that. The government tried to have economists look into it, but by that point they themselves had been replaced by robots and nothing much came of it other than a very confusing letter to Penthouse.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: MCLUHAN SAID
« on: December 09, 2019, 01:44:39 pm »
Another 12 years out from this quote from DeBord...

When I read McLuhan (and I don't know that I'm reading the same stuff Deboard did), it doesn't come off as a defense or embrace of the spectacle. McLuhan is descriptive, not prescriptive - at one point in that famous Playboy interview, MCLUHAN SAID

I’m not advocating anything; I’m merely probing and predicting trends. Even if I opposed them or thought them disastrous, I couldn’t stop them, so why waste my time lamenting? As Carlyle said of author Margaret Fuller after she remarked, “I accept the Universe”: “She’d better.” I see no possibility of
a worldwide Luddite rebellion that will smash all machinery to bits, so we might as well sit back and see what is happening and what will happen to us in a cybernetic world. Resenting a new technology will not halt its progress.

Whereas in contrast, Debord wishes we could rewind to a time when we weren't consumed by conversations about "how much your umbrella cost and where did you get it?" He advocates living one's life in a way that's radically arbitrary, a fly in the ointment of consensus. I imagine that if he lived in 2019, Deboard would not own a smartphone. And he might even be better off for it! But this is why the situationists could only exist for a moment.. they were never able to resist the tide -- except individually.

Passages like this still seem to hit 2019-2020 right on the head. (italics mine)

Interviewer: Are you claiming, now, that there will be no taboos in the world tribal society you envision?

McLuhan: No, I’m not saying that, and I’m not claiming that freedom will be absolute—merely that it will be less restricted than your question implies. The world tribe will be essentially conservative, it’s true, like all iconic and inclusive societies; a mythic environment lives beyond time and space and thus generates little radical social change. All technology becomes part of a shared ritual that the tribe desperately strives to keep stabilized and permanent; by its very nature, an oral-tribal society—such as Pharaonic Egypt—is far more stable and enduring than any fragmented visual society. The oral and auditory tribal society is patterned by acoustic space, a total and simultaneous field of relations alien to the visual world, in which points of view and goals make social change an inevitable and constant by product. An electrically imploded tribal society discards the linear forward-motion of “progress.” We can see in our own time how, as we begin to react in depth to the challenges of the global village, we all become reactionaries.

a lot of people read McLuhan's tone as one of reverence and awe for the bright future to come.

But McLuhan admits that he's from a previous generation (linear-literary culture), and is himself alienated by this "electric tribal culture" that was forming at the time. The hippies read this vanishing of taboos as a liberation from uptight 50s conservatism. I think McLuhan saw that in the long arc, it also represents the decay of discourse, the return of the animalistic...

Reminds me of when Nietzsche says "God is dead, we have killed him--you and I", it's in a tone of horror. Even though Nietzsche is an atheist, he is terrified by the "lack of up and down" that he imagined we were approaching.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: December 09, 2019, 01:14:39 pm »
Just want to share an exercise we're trying this week.

To Give Up Suffering

Suffering is an emotional reaction. This means that, to some extent, it just happens within us.

But a lot of suffering is what we'd call the "wrong work of centers" -- that is, the emotional part of you is trying to "do the work" for another part of you, and it can't, so we become occupied by an emotion that doesn't serve a purpose.

For example - imagine you're walking somewhere, and you need to get there--maybe you're late--so you're hurrying.  And while you're hurrying, you're stressing out, concentrating on the lateness and the urgency and the need to get there. Suffering. Maybe you can let go of that.

The emotional suffering doesn't get you there any faster. It's extraneous. It wastes energy.
The body can help you out by walking faster. The emotions want to help, but they can't.

So, in a moment of suffering, maybe you can realize -- there's no point to this feeling, I'm going to stop feeding it.

and that's how the economy of the 2020s became based on Yu-Gi-Oh cards

Much like the value of currency, I suspect the underpinning of cyrptocurrencies is people's faith in them.

And if that's true, then maybe what crypto represents is that anything can be regarded as money as long as its predicated on something incomprehensible

Which is why I'm developing a currency based on republican impeachment defense

I'll be here all night, folks.
Thank you. Thank you.  You're too kind.

Apple Talk / Re: The Official Discordian Church Apology™
« on: December 06, 2019, 12:39:34 pm »

Apple Talk / Re: The Official Discordian Church Apology™
« on: December 04, 2019, 10:21:22 pm »
ahhhh love it!!

If I could quibble? the Fi- is missing from "fingerlicking" and that leaves ngerlicking which ... doesn't taste right  :p

thank you for that!

and  :lol:, nothing says law and order like an economy-destabilizing cryptocurrency

Literate Chaotic / Re: Incel
« on: December 04, 2019, 08:26:27 pm »
Sure, and that’s your thing, and that’s fine.

My point was more “here are reasons not to”. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind here, this isn’t a place to evangelize, unless you’re using your ass to do it. I may have come across more forceful than that, but I think my reasons and my history explain why that would be the case. The intent was milder and I’m not going to call you all shitgoblins for not following my lead.

I might call Cramulus a shitgoblin anyway, but that’s for the Eastern Terror of 2019 more than for his opinions. I can’t be expected to forget the entire truck of radioactive ‘stache catching fire or the subsequent mutant Buddhists climbing buildings and howling for the end of dukkha. Nor can I be expected to FORGIVE.

Forgiving Cramulus is just another way of saying "To Cramulus is okay."  It's permission.  The Cramulus will say that he has changed, that he has turned over a new leaf.

But if he HAD, he wouldn't be Cramulus.  He'd be someone else entirely.

100 years from now, a tractor-feed printer next to your brain-vat will print out

10 I was just obeying Cramulus' mind control
20 Goto 10

this will be a valid legal defense because the entire legal system will be based on my mind control

Literate Chaotic / Re: Incel
« on: December 04, 2019, 04:37:42 pm »
I linked to her because I think the posture / attitude she uses to discuss contentious issues and the cultural rift is really effective

and QGs excellent writing felt like it was part of the same chord


call it what it is


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