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Messages - Cramulus

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11761
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 19, 2007, 04:14:55 pm »
I think a good premise is one of the keys to funnay. Like how the principia's premise is religion - it uses a lot of religious symbolism and imagery and dressings as a disguise to present its message.

I think coming up with a good premise is much easier than thinking of the joke itself.

Like what if we wrote lollercaust in the format and layout of a high school social-studies text book
or a pop-psych self-help book
or an instruction manual
or as if is correspondence between two condescending martians talking about humanity's problems
or it's a disappointed journal entry written by time traveling ancient greeks
or some shit like that

11762
Discordianism is, of course, no more the specter that haunts industrial society than was communism the specter that haunted Europe in 1848.
- Gregory Hill, Usenet Post, 1996

Greg Hill posted on usenet?

Greg Hill is a real person?

fawkwaaaaad?!

11763
Literate Chaotic / Re: Illuminatus! Trilogy
« on: March 19, 2007, 02:48:48 pm »
I am thoroughly jealous of hunter/gatherer societies. I read somewhere that the average hunter/gatherer does less than ten hours of work a week! Srsly, industrial revolution FTL.

If only there was some way to spend my day killing deer and weaving baskets and still get indoor plumbing, heat, and internets.

11764
Bring and Brag / Re: ATTN Artists and creative types
« on: March 19, 2007, 02:23:12 pm »
GUYS I GOT IT COVERED


11765
well personally I think the future is going to fucking kick ass


but I also think watching a guy get hit in the crotch forever kicks ass, so ya know

at least we have that in common

11766
Literate Chaotic / Re: Illuminatus! Trilogy
« on: March 17, 2007, 11:05:55 pm »

Great post SP, very very interesting.

11767
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Renaming challenge
« on: March 17, 2007, 10:41:49 pm »
only one way to find out

11768
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:57:02 pm »
well we hates him, so clearly not

but I bet he's "converted" more people than Thornley.

11769
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:54:58 pm »
"Packaging"

11770
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Renaming challenge
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:42:09 pm »
Good call LMNO

Though I don't think it should be a "which metaphor is best" contest. (which will ultimately be rhetorical)

I think the goal is to get as many hands as possible on the elephant.

11771
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:39:45 pm »
I'm in the camp which believes that the packaging of these ideas is very important. The name we use is important. Are we in agreement there?

because people's decisions about whether or not they want to keep reading are made in the first fifteen seconds. Judging from my own first impression and the reactions of other people who have posted, the bleakness seems to be turning some people away. This is different from "getting it" or not.


Person 1: Did you see The Matrix?
Person 2: yeah, it was over-the-top shite
Person 1: But did you get the message? Reality is a simulation!
Person 2: sure. But it was still shite. I mean, Neo flies away at the end?!

 :p

11772
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:12:21 pm »
Again, from my perspective, I say you aren't trapped.  Refer to my post a few posts ago.  "The limits are not limits, thus, the prison is not a prison."


just to be clear, I totally agree with the content.

But the symbolism goes like this then-

  • reality is a prison
  • prisons are not prisons

So why do we call it a prison to begin with?

11773
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 03:08:06 pm »
Why do you believe in [whatever you believe in] and not, say, the Insane Clown Posse "Dark Carnival" metaphor for reality? I'll venture because it's silly and not palatable to you.

Those are the kinds of issues we're addressing here. The most common critique of the BIP is not about any of the ideas in it, it's about its packaging. In the current scheme, the person who "gets it" is the person who realizes how imprisoned they are. Freedom comes from knowing how fucked you are. Going back to an old argument, I just don't see why I would want to buy into that.

11774
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 02:53:45 pm »
It's not bad.

I just don't want to be in prison.

11775
Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Explaining the BIP to normal people
« on: March 16, 2007, 02:38:45 pm »
going back the the op, since I came in a few pages late...

I think one of the things we've all mentioned is that the metaphor of reality as a prison is a bit too bleak to be palatable. This is basic memetics - people don't want to buy into an ideology that's more emotionally costly than their previous one (see also: melioration principle). There's no reward in the extended BIP metaphor, you just escape into a different cell.

This is why the more I chew on it the more I've been likening it to a Dream Within a Dream metaphor. A dream is a reality that, if we're lucid, we can control. It's also not as damning, although some people live in self-created nightmares.

You get to choose whether its a bad dream or a good dream. Even people in Real Life Prison (the kind with physical bars and cells) have a good day once in a while. They just have to learn to tune into the things that make them happy instead of the things that piss them off.

it's your choice what kind of dream this is. Ultimately, people who are bitter have chosen to be bitter. The point of lucidity is to realize that you can choose.

In the BIP metaphor, you're trapped
In the dream metaphor, you're just going with the flow, until you realize what's going on, and then you can "wake up" and change the dream you're having



more on this later

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