Who is 'Us'?

[AFK]

Selective Flocking.

You certainly don't want to be a part of "Them" because "They" are emo/goths/republicans/liberals/pagans/madjicksians/whatever

But, you don't want to be alone in your "Not Them-ism" 

It seems like you can never, ever really be apart from wanting to flock with someone. 

So, really, we're all sheep to some degree.  Some like to hang out in the grass fields.  Others like to be "edgy" and hang out by the cliff overlooking the chasm.  But, if we are ever alone, we're more susceptible to the wolves.

Also it's a numbers game.  There are enough in the "We" to substantiate the idea that it is possible to be "Not Them" and not be totally whacked. 

[Jenne]

Ok, on the "groupthink" thing.  It's a phenomenon in sociology that means when a group comes together over an idea, the consensus shifts on the basis of what each member of the group wants to be thought of AS.  Not the actual idea itself.  So people are apt to change their minds or go along with an idea they don't agree on just to be part of the group.

It usually has a negative outcome.

So, there is always potential for groupthink, especially in a highly-motivated, very intelligent and somewhat cohesive (which is what I consider this particular substratum of PD to be) set of people such as this.  What needs to be watched for is the aspects you have all already pointed out.  The agreeing to agree, disagreeing only when it's expected, etc.

If all individual ideas are still respected and thought out (as long as they make some sort of sense and fit into the issue at-hand), then groupthink is not likely to occur.  It usually happens when some overt prestige factor is presiding over the group, delineating which group member(s) everyone should be following, rather than their own mindset.

That's not to say that no one should internalize and learn from others, either.  Of course.  Etc.

[Triple Zero]

So, really, we're all sheep to some degree.  Some like to hang out in the grass fields.  Others like to be "edgy" and hang out by the cliff overlooking the chasm.  But, if we are ever alone, we're more susceptible to the wolves.

wolves? who are the wolves, if not more sheep?

if there are actual wolves, they are just made out of several sheep.

like a sheep mecha robot wolf.

i know, it's pretty fucking ridiculous, but the poor sheep can't help it!

that is why it is up to us to pull out the bottom sheep, become the bottom sheep, step out of line, and the whole thing comes clattering down in a woolly flurry of lulz.

[LMNO]

SHEEP JENGA!

[Triple Zero]

SHEEP JENGA!

sometimes i wonder what is not on the internets.

[LHX]

i dont know

is a cluster of stars the same as a group of sheep?

they shine on their own, but they are in the same general vicinity


sheep seems to have a connotation of stagnation + easy to be moved or rounded up

[AFK]

Well to go into total astronomy geek mode if you take gravitational forces into consideration you could probably stretch the sheep metaphor to stars or other celestial bodies. 

As far as the wolves, why do the wolves have to be people?  I would think of wolves more as environmental forces then non-sheep humans. 

[LHX]

so some sheep are good sheep now

dam


we dismantle every metaphor


ninja sheep wiff the kung fu grip

[P3nT4gR4m]

Wolves are biological organisms that look, think and act a different way from sheep. They also feed on the sheep and sometimes fight with other wolves. How they came to be is another question. Maybe sheep can learn to be wolves. Maybe wolves are just born that way. One thing is for shure - I've never met a wolf wanted to be a sheep.

[AFK]

so some sheep are good sheep now

dam


we dismantle every metaphor


ninja sheep wiff the kung fu grip

to be honest, I'm working on 3 hours of sleep at best and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
The probability of me being full of shit this morning is approximately 95%. 

[LMNO]

Best time for fre-flowing creativity, imo.

[AFK]

so some sheep are good sheep now

dam


we dismantle every metaphor


ninja sheep wiff the kung fu grip

I don't know that there are "good" and "bad" sheep.  I'm sure there are "flocks" we all would rather avoid.  The flock of christianity, the flock of Republicans, the flock of MCR fans.  I guess it depends on why we don't want to be part of the flock as to whether or not they are "good" or "bad".  Even then, subjectivity is the order of the day. 

[Triple Zero]

i'm a bit too giddy on coffee and sugar to contribute much useful besides some puns as well, so i was waiting a bit what you guys came up with.

but i'll give it a shot.

LHX: i don't get wtf you are talking about with that cluster of stars business?

RWHN: i think the most fearsome wolves for our sheep are clearly made up of flocks of other sheep (basically this is just machine metaphore, wrapped in wool).
environmental forces? like tornados?

Silly > I've never met a wolf wanted to be a sheep.

but they do cross-dress in sheep's clothing.

so you get this sheep-wolf-mecha wrapped in wool. kind of like that constitution/flag business, and just as confusing.
translation: this is when big companies (wolves/flocks of sheep) are getting the same value-treatment as individuals, while the reverse is not true.
a lot of the worse RIAA/DMCA copyright bullshit is like this (even people that think copyrights are a good idea have to admit the RIAA/DMCA/Mickey Mouse acts are going rather over the top, and are using arguments that pretend what's fair/unfair to individuals is also fair/unfair to large conglomerations of companies)




how's that for free-flowing?

[AFK]

RWHN: i think the most fearsome wolves for our sheep are clearly made up of flocks of other sheep (basically this is just machine metaphore, wrapped in wool).
environmental forces? like tornados?

Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of social environment as an influence on development.  The premise I'm working off is that everyone is a sheep because someone is always part of some flock, even if it is the flock of not being a flock.  So if everyone is a sheep what are the wolves?  Maybe there aren't wolves, maybe the sheep are cannabalistic.  But, I would think that if there are wolves they wouldn't be people so what's left.  So, maybe peer pressure is a wolf.  Maybe alcoholism is a wolf.  Maybe, fear of the unknown is a wolf.  I don't know.  I still stand by my prior disclaimer that I'm most likely just talking out of my ass right now.   

[Triple Zero]

ok then we're on the same line.

because social environment is caused by the group.

so if a wolf is (bad/dangerous) social environmental factors, it's pretty much made up of sheep.

at least that was what i was getting at with the mecha robot wolf.