Motherhood

[PopeTom]

Mom already thinks I'm gay.


Or she did, before I got married.


It might have had something to do with introducing her to my boyfriend.

You live in MA, you could have married your boyfriend.

[PopeTom]

men are becoming women
women are becoming men

...


There is a problem with this?

In only so far as I do not know the first thing about being a lesbian.

For one, is there a secret handshake?

[Triple Zero]

she went through an entire pregnancy and NOBODY noticed.

She didn't have the "great with child" look, though she did appear to be putting on weight.  She was always emotionally unstable and she alwayshad weird eating habits.

I know, it sounds like something from a soap opera, but that's the way it happened dude.

this sort of scenario is seriously one of my worst nightmares evar.

i'd feel the ground crumbling away under my feet if i ever got news like that.

worse story even, sister of a friend of mine didn't even quit taking the pill (freak chance). didn't notice she stopped menstruating because of the pill. got a slightly bigger belly, and pain in her belly. got pregnancy tests, which turned out negative (due to the pill, and freak chance). doctor found out about halfway the pregnancy (or after the point were it's not okay to have an abortion anymore, i forgot), exploded into "great with child" only a few days after she acknowledged the pregnancy to herself and stopped taking the pill.
baby is -despite the pill- healthy as fuck, almost creepily healthy even.
(i probably got some of the facts wrong in this story, so don't get me on biological accuracy or anything)

oh and definitely not trying to trivialize your story here, Payne. i just had to think of it. the possibility still scares the fuck out of me (though i'm single now, so there's not much to worry about)

[B_M_W]

she went through an entire pregnancy and NOBODY noticed.

She didn't have the "great with child" look, though she did appear to be putting on weight.  She was always emotionally unstable and she alwayshad weird eating habits.

I know, it sounds like something from a soap opera, but that's the way it happened dude.

this sort of scenario is seriously one of my worst nightmares evar.

i'd feel the ground crumbling away under my feet if i ever got news like that.

worse story even, sister of a friend of mine didn't even quit taking the pill (freak chance). didn't notice she stopped menstruating because of the pill. got a slightly bigger belly, and pain in her belly. got pregnancy tests, which turned out negative (due to the pill, and freak chance). doctor found out about halfway the pregnancy (or after the point were it's not okay to have an abortion anymore, i forgot), exploded into "great with child" only a few days after she acknowledged the pregnancy to herself and stopped taking the pill.
baby is -despite the pill- healthy as fuck, almost creepily healthy even.
(i probably got some of the facts wrong in this story, so don't get me on biological accuracy or anything)

oh and definitely not trying to trivialize your story here, Payne. i just had to think of it. the possibility still scares the fuck out of me (though i'm single now, so there's not much to worry about)

Not possible. Pregnancy tests check for a different hormone that has to do with the fetus (cant remember the name of it right now), and not with leves of estrogen or progesterone. Its one of those myths that people continue to think, but isn't true. I thought it was, until my physiology professor made a point of killing it for the whole class.

[B_M_W]

men are becoming women
women are becoming men

...


There is a problem with this?

theres no problem with it

im saying it was predicted to be one of the features of these times

And what does that have to do with poor parenting, may I ask?

because in the process of this occurring, nobody seems to be looking after the kids

ill send my staff out to compile some numbers



and what in the blazes is a 'transgender' individual?

another label for 'human'?

It seems to me that you were talking about individuals whos gender identitys don't match their physical sex, thus transgender. And the line of thought seemed to be drawn between greater occurences of these, joined with poor parenting.

And even if this is only about gender roles (like who works and who stays home), I think these fatherhood and motherhood threads are ridiculously sexist as hell. Like I said, this had nothing to do with gender, but you seem to be making it this way.

[LMNO]

I'm thinking LHX was trying to say the following:

(LHX - IF I'M PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, I APOLOGIZE)


"There are some social games that men play that are detrimental to self and family, which many call 'men's roles'.

"There are some social games that women play that are detrimental to self and family, which many call 'women's roles'.

"In a screwed up sense of 'fairness', some women are adopting the detrimental 'men's roles', and some men are adopting the detrimental 'women's roles'.

"But nowhere in this is the child considered a factor."









I'm not sure I can argue this point, but that's what I got out of LHX's piece.

[LHX]

2 years of posting and suddenly i become a ignorant sexist idiot overnight


another sign of the times i guess


thanks family


here is another 3 scenarios:
1. i suck at communicating
2. a bunch of people need to go back and check their old Speak and Spells to brush up on their reading comprehension
3. it doesnt matter what got posted here - but the fact that 'gender' was even brought up was the equivalent of me putting the infra-red cross hairs on my own forehead (aka - you read whatever you want to read)


funny how yall got on Lamanite when he called everybody a racist for no apparent reason
now yall are doing the same thing in here


maybe there is a short-term memory plight going on
http://www.mind-mapping.co.uk/
check out Tony Buzan's mind-mapping - maybe it can help




classic movie line of the moment:
JEFF GOLDBLUM: "I guess we both turned out to be shitty husbands. At least I have an excuse. I'm part gay."

BILL MURRAY: "Supposedly we all are."

- Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou

[AFK]

I have to agree with LHX.  I think talking about him being a sexist is way off the mark.  I think LHX is probably one of the more thoughtful contributors to this community.  And I think he is asking as many questions in this and the other thread as he is making statements and/or opinions.  And as I stated earlier, he has some valid points.  I don't think he is arguing that our society should go back to Leave it to Beaver era of Daddy going to work and Mommy staying home with the kids.  He's acknowledged that economics these days makes that prohibitive in some cases.

What he is talking about, as I read it, is motivations.  He's talking about motivations for success and corporate success that don't figure the child into the scenario.  By default this involves women because men have ALWAYS been breadwinners.  Meanwhile there were times when the woman was the homekeeper.  If there was going to be a change, by definition, it would involve more women then men.  Do the math.  However, as he has also mentioned, it doesn't mean that the man can't stay at home and the woman become the breadwinner.  But even there, you have another societal-norm can-of-worms to deal with. 

Anyway, I personally don't view X's threads or posts as sexist.  It isn't a cut and dry issue and it involves many ingrained societal norms.  If we can't discuss those sort of things here without people being labeled then where the hell is it going to be discussed.  Or, do we just keep it in the broom closet? 

[The Lamanite]

In Japan:


The majority of the women are career driven.

They're having kids when they reach their 30's, or not at all.

As a result, there aren't enough people to take care of their elderly.

The poulation scale is tipped. More elderly than there are children.

What's wrong with this picture, I don't know i'm just an idiot.

[hunter s.durden]

I don't know i'm just an idiot.

That was all you needed to write.

[The Lamanite]

I don't know i'm just an idiot.

That was all you needed to write.

Thanks princess.

[AFK]

In Japan:


The majority of the women are career driven.

They're having kids when they reach their 30's, or not at all.

As a result, there aren't enough people to take care of their elderly.

The poulation scale is tipped. More elderly than there are children.

What's wrong with this picture, I don't know i'm just an idiot.

Well, the same is happening in America as well.  Though the aging population will have more to do with Baby Boomers retiring.  And it's not realistic to expect a rising birthrate to catch up with that population.  In Japan it may be the same thing, I'm not sure.  Did they experience a Baby Boom after WWII?

[B_M_W]

2 years of posting and suddenly i become a ignorant sexist idiot overnight


another sign of the times i guess


thanks family


here is another 3 scenarios:
1. i suck at communicating
2. a bunch of people need to go back and check their old Speak and Spells to brush up on their reading comprehension
3. it doesnt matter what got posted here - but the fact that 'gender' was even brought up was the equivalent of me putting the infra-red cross hairs on my own forehead (aka - you read whatever you want to read)


funny how yall got on Lamanite when he called everybody a racist for no apparent reason
now yall are doing the same thing in here


maybe there is a short-term memory plight going on
http://www.mind-mapping.co.uk/
check out Tony Buzan's mind-mapping - maybe it can help




classic movie line of the moment:
JEFF GOLDBLUM: "I guess we both turned out to be shitty husbands. At least I have an excuse. I'm part gay."

BILL MURRAY: "Supposedly we all are."

- Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou

I'm not calling you an ignorant sexist idiot. All I wanted was clarification. And I got it. Thank you.

[Thurnez Isa]

she went through an entire pregnancy and NOBODY noticed.

She didn't have the "great with child" look, though she did appear to be putting on weight.  She was always emotionally unstable and she alwayshad weird eating habits.

I know, it sounds like something from a soap opera, but that's the way it happened dude.

this sort of scenario is seriously one of my worst nightmares evar.

i'd feel the ground crumbling away under my feet if i ever got news like that.

worse story even, sister of a friend of mine didn't even quit taking the pill (freak chance). didn't notice she stopped menstruating because of the pill. got a slightly bigger belly, and pain in her belly. got pregnancy tests, which turned out negative (due to the pill, and freak chance). doctor found out about halfway the pregnancy (or after the point were it's not okay to have an abortion anymore, i forgot), exploded into "great with child" only a few days after she acknowledged the pregnancy to herself and stopped taking the pill.
baby is -despite the pill- healthy as fuck, almost creepily healthy even.
(i probably got some of the facts wrong in this story, so don't get me on biological accuracy or anything)

oh and definitely not trying to trivialize your story here, Payne. i just had to think of it. the possibility still scares the fuck out of me (though i'm single now, so there's not much to worry about)

Not possible. Pregnancy tests check for a different hormone that has to do with the fetus (cant remember the name of it right now), and not with leves of estrogen or progesterone. Its one of those myths that people continue to think, but isn't true. I thought it was, until my physiology professor made a point of killing it for the whole class.

yah I heard that as well
but I always wonder what creates false negatives, even personally know someone who got a false possitive
is it just the test defected, or one of those mysteries of life?

[Darth Cupcake]

Heads up, this is a long post, as I am trying to catch up with everything I missed. Sorry!

Darth Cupcake, would you be willing to yield to the statement, "Biology impacts personality.

But no where near as much as culture, nurture, and society."

?

Because thats where I sum it up. Even coming from where I am.

I will agree on this. Because I'm sure to a small extent it does.

What I don't like is when gender is used to lump people together in large groups instead of taking into account the individual. My gender has had an impact on who I am, just as my race and socio-economic class and nationality have. But these are pieces of a whole, and it is naive to think that "all women are the same" anymore that we'd say "all Americans are the same" or "all middle class white girls are the same." When we start discounting the individual in favor of labels, everyone loses.

I'm thinking LHX was trying to say the following:

(LHX - IF I'M PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, I APOLOGIZE)


"There are some social games that men play that are detrimental to self and family, which many call 'men's roles'.

"There are some social games that women play that are detrimental to self and family, which many call 'women's roles'.

"In a screwed up sense of 'fairness', some women are adopting the detrimental 'men's roles', and some men are adopting the detrimental 'women's roles'.

"But nowhere in this is the child considered a factor."

I think this is a good interpretation. I like it.

LHX, as I've covered, I don't think you're a sexist idiot. I think the initial post could've been written more clearly because it does sound almost like an attack on "women's lib" or whatever we want to call it. I do not think that was your goal, though.

Gender is a loaded issue. It's hard to talk about. Particularly with as diverse of a crowd as we have here. We've got all genders, I imagine we've got all sexualities, we've got a huge spread of ages, some parents, some future parents, some never-parents... I think this thread is doing pretty well at keeping it civil and bringing the rational debate. I hope it stays that way.

That said, motherhood is a knee-jerk issue. People think of mothers as the natural caretakers of children. Even in this allegedly more enlightened age, JUST TRY to get custody of a child in a divorce as a man. My dad tried to get custody of me when my parents got divorced and he arguably had a pretty good case for it. But my mum was the one who carried me in her womb so there was just no chance. There are lots of fathers out there who were more qualified than their ex-wives to raise the kid(s) but couldn't get custody on account of being a man. It is a knee-jerk reaction to think that mothers are the more "involved" parent.

I was shopping for a mother's day card for my mum back in April and I saw a cute card that on the front was all "My mother--she knows all my hopes and dreams, my crushes, my failures, my successes, etc etc etc." And on the inside said, "My father is vaguely aware of some short people living in his house." Maybe it was really silly for me to actually feel slightly angry about that, but I did. That's the kind of stupid gender/parenting assumptions that only forward these stereotypes. There's no good reason to keep promoting them.

Anyway, I personally don't view X's threads or posts as sexist.  It isn't a cut and dry issue and it involves many ingrained societal norms.  If we can't discuss those sort of things here without people being labeled then where the hell is it going to be discussed.  Or, do we just keep it in the broom closet? 

Again, I agree. We have a lot of intelligent people on this board and if we can all keep our heads level I think some really good discussion can come out of this.

On the other hand, I think we also have some very non-normal people here, if you will. I certainly can't "speak for women" because I am, for starters, a far more radical feminist than most women, so a lot of them might be a bit peeved at my stance. I'm also coming from a fairly liberal view on sexuality, gender roles, what makes a good family, etc. I don't doubt that there are plenty of others on this board who are the same way--that we're here at all kind of indicates that we're not exactly mainstream, if you will. So my ideas of what the solutions of parenting dilemmas are most likely would not actually work in practical application.

That was a really complicated way of saying "take what I say with a grain of salt."

In Japan:


The majority of the women are career driven.

They're having kids when they reach their 30's, or not at all.

As a result, there aren't enough people to take care of their elderly.

The poulation scale is tipped. More elderly than there are children.

What's wrong with this picture, I don't know i'm just an idiot.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with this picture. I don't feel that we need to be consistently increasing our population at all times. It's okay to stabilize and/or decrease population size. I'm all for decreasing it, actually.

We should not have children simply because "we need more bricks to hold up the structure that already exists" or something like that. What is to say that the structure we have should not be allowed to crumble a bit?

In only so far as I do not know the first thing about being a lesbian.

For one, is there a secret handshake?

Yes.

Everything else is classified. For dykey eyes only. Rawr!