Rev Roger, Sermon #61: Speed Freaks.

[Mangrove]

In cas you can't tell, it means that you have a house, but it's more than you can afford, so you basically have a very expensive shell that you can't furnish, you eat ramen noodles, and eventually go bankrupt, even though you "own a house."

thank you. that pretty much describes a large portion of the numbskulls i had to speak to in my old job.

Caller: My council tax is too high!!!

Me: How so?

Caller: I live in a 5 bedroom, detached converted 17th century barn, with acres of land and a scenic view. Why are you charging me so much money!!??

Me: Well, not to be a dick, but WE don't charge you anything. Your local authority charges you the tax, we simply make the value assessments on your house.

Caller: But it's too much!! Argghh. We thought we were going to be in a low tax band!

Me: Uh...why? You live in a huge frikkin' mansion in a desireable area in the countryside with a low population density. Pray tell, why would you think that would be a cheap way to live? Especially when people like you are driving up property prices, forcing indigenous residents of your village out because they can't afford to live in the communities they were born and raised in.

Caller: ARGHGHHG. We only budgeted for band C.

Me: Well your house is a whopping Band F. So you bugeted wrongly, didn't you? Looks like you gotta live somewhere cheaper or subsist on generic store brand baked beans until you kick it. Have a nice day!

[tyrannosaurus vex]

On the other hand, it is kinda fucked that somebody with no cash can put in years of hard work making his house just the way he likes it, and ends up unable to pay the taxes on property values resulting from his own hard work.

[AFK]

I guess the trick is, then, to build the perfect house that is perfect for you, but highly undesirable to everyone else to keep the value down. 

[Darth Cupcake]

That happens to me and my mum. We sold the house (well, she did, but you know what I mean) that she and my dad built literally by themselves early on in their marriage. Over the years they expanded it, made it bigger and nicer and everything. It started out as a tiny house in a blue collar neighborhood, but they kept building it up till it was a gorgeous, huge house on a nice piece of property in what became a very upperclass area, etc. Unfortunately, then my mum could no longer afford taxes. Bye bye house.

As a side note, things worked out well for her, so I'm hardly complaining; it is most important to me that she is in a good situation. But it does REALLY suck when you put blood, sweat, and tears into a house, and then can't keep it. And it happens to many many people.

I guess the trick is, then, to build the perfect house that is perfect for you, but highly undesirable to everyone else to keep the value down. 

Interestingly enough, my ideal home does pretty much fit that bill. However, in desirable areas, it won't matter. My old neighborhood is getting bought out left and right. The shitty houses are going for zillions of dollars, and then the yuppies are ripping them down completely and building brand new houses, just because the area is where they want to be. It's absolutely crazy. It used to be an adorable neighborhood full of capes and ranches, but now it's all mansions with barely a few feet between them because they're the size of their property!

[Mangrove]

On the other hand, it is kinda fucked that somebody with no cash can put in years of hard work making his house just the way he likes it, and ends up unable to pay the taxes on property values resulting from his own hard work.

true. though in most cases, the people showed a woeful lack of research and made ill-informed assumptions about the kinds of properties they were buying and developing. they were so gung-ho about getting the dream house, they forgot to work out whether they could pay for it.

and typically, the people who complained most were often the wealthiest. the people who were getting totally crapped on by 'teh system' tended to be the most reasonable and polite.

[Mangrove]

DC - same kind of thing is happening here in this town. it used to be just a little, out of the way place. but there's yuppie overspill from the next town over which has a lot of retail & offices pouring money into the town. we have low population density and commerical income is extremely small.

mrs mang & i live in what was once supposed to be a cheap & cheerful summer cottage for occasional use when the original builders wanted to be near the lake. now it's a permanent residence for 5 and we're surrounded by people with fuck-off big mansions.

[Triple Zero]

On the other hand, it is kinda fucked that somebody with no cash can put in years of hard work making his house just the way he likes it, and ends up unable to pay the taxes on property values resulting from his own hard work.

true. though in most cases, the people showed a woeful lack of research and made ill-informed assumptions about the kinds of properties they were buying and developing. they were so gung-ho about getting the dream house, they forgot to work out whether they could pay for it.

i don't get it, what are these taxes for?
let me get this straight, so you buy this piece of land, you pay taxes for it, okay.
what i don't get is, if you build a house on it, and improve the house you have to pay more taxes?

i have no idea if we have a similar problem over here, but as far as i know once you own a house, you own it. if you are really filthy rich you get to pay some sort of "wealth taxes" thing (but that's a laughable amount and you can deduct it from all sorts of stuff if you got a good accountant).
it's just that hardly anybody here really "owns" their house. even if they bought it, they bought it with a mortgage loan thing. that's just the way we do it over here, i was quite surprised to learn that in Austria (for example) once a couple gets together, they'll live in a cheap rented apartment for some 7-10 years, save up as much money as possible and then srsly just really buy the house

[Darth Cupcake]

It's the value of the property that you are paying taxes on.

So you can own a really nice house in a shitty neighborhood and pay low taxes. Or you can own a shitty house in a really nice neighborhood and pay higher taxes. Because it's all about property value.

But what happened to me and my mum is that our taxes went up as the desirability of our neighborhood went up, thus upping the property values. So although our half acre never changed in size, the elementary school across the street from us went from being an empty shell into being the newest and most desirable elementary school in the district, tons of yuppies moved in and tore down the capes that had characterized our neighborhood and built McMansions, thus making it a "family oriented neighborhood," as the realtors call it, and eventually people were willing to pay out the ass for utter shit in that neighborhood. Thus, the property values went up, and so went the taxes.

I THINK.

I was busy being an angsty early adolescent at the time, so I'm a bit hazy on the details. Plus I've never owned property in my life, only rented, so I might be REALLY off on the whole property taxes thing. Anyone who wants to smack me around and tell me what's what is quite welcome to.

[AFK]

No you've pretty much nailed it.  The actual house on the lot is probably less of a factor on the property value then where the property is.  For example a shack on ocean-front property is going to be worth a helluva lot more than my moderately nice house on it's property. 

As far as what they are for, education and other local services. 

[Triple Zero]

hmmm that's pretty weird

i mean it's not really "property" if you have to keep paying for it, right? especially not if you can't be sure the monthly pay might go up in the future or not.

but all i know about mortgages over here is the price of the house that is built somewhere .. but i'm pretty sure the price of the ground it's built on should factor into it as well somewhere, i just doubt that it's very much .. but on the other hand i'm pretty sure ground isn't particularly cheap in the netherlands as well, seeing how densely populated we are ..

[AFK]

Usually, the property tax is figured into your monthly mortgage payment, though I think you can pay it separately if you wish.  But, when you have a yearly tax bill in excess of $3000.  (yay me!) It seems less painful when it's worked into the mortgage. 

[Darth Cupcake]

Usually, the property tax is figured into your monthly mortgage payment, though I think you can pay it separately if you wish.  But, when you have a yearly tax bill in excess of $3000.  (yay me!) It seems less painful when it's worked into the mortgage. 

Ahahahahahaha... Property taxes in southern CT are downright ABSURD.

That is one thing I do just love about renting!

[Mangrove]

DC - what you said totally describes the situation in my town currently.

000 - in the UK, you don't get penalized for improving your property. What happens is that the property is revalued if you sell it, so next person gets hit for the value of your improvements.

The exception to that is this: You buy say, an old barn and then convert it into a nice house. Although the structure itself pre-existed (as a barn) when the conversion is finished it is considered and valued as a brand new domestic residence.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

In my area taxes aren't really that much to worry about.  If you have to pay $3000/yr for property taxes here, then chances are good that $3000 is less than you blow with your weekly call to the Home Shopping Network.

[PEAS]

i figure the best solution is just to not pay your taxes...
that way you get to go to jail and don't have to pay for anything...