Employment is exploitation

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Employment should be a mutually beneficial arrangement, yes. It isn't always, unfortunately, especially for people who are less intelligent and have more limited choices.

I did at some point have a lot more to it than this, but I don't know where it all is. It'll turn up eventually, I think. My friend was doing  this zine in the 90's called "Retarded Whore" and it inspired me to write a lot of anti-corporate rants.

I think it's interesting that more people get stuck on the first part, which is just a factual description of the necessity for employers to profit from the labor of employees. People get really stuck on the word "exploitation", which is pretty much why I used it in the first place... it's a hot button of sorts. I was really into this stuff ten years ago, but at the moment I believe there are much more major issues to address, such as the rapid erosion of democracy, freedom, and human rights in the US. And slavery. Have you guys heard about the recent slavery in North Carolina? NOT SHITTING YOU. I'll try to find that news story.

[Messier Undertree]

Nigel, I think I love you.

However, I don't think it's viable for everyone to be petty bourgeois, like you seem to be advocating.

Capitalism cannot exist without exploitation.

[Messier Undertree]

the BEST thing that can happen is that every aspect of your economy will decline and settle out at the lowest common denominator.

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

by the way, there's a term for that sort of economic system. It's called "communism".

That's one weird definition of communism you have there.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, not North Carolina, Oklahoma. And it's happening all over the place... totally crazy.

http://www.indiaresource.org/news/2003/4166.html

[East Coast Hustle]

the BEST thing that can happen is that every aspect of your economy will decline and settle out at the lowest common denominator.

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

by the way, there's a term for that sort of economic system. It's called "communism".

That's one weird definition of communism you have there.

1. because that's what happens when you remove any sort of incentive for personal success from a larger economic system.

2. no, I think that "an economic system in which the workers are in control of the means of production" is pretty much the textbook definition of communism.

[East Coast Hustle]

Oh, not North Carolina, Oklahoma. And it's happening all over the place... totally crazy.

http://www.indiaresource.org/news/2003/4166.html

that's certainly fucked up, but it's not slavery.

[Messier Undertree]

1. because that's what happens when you remove any sort of incentive for personal success from a larger economic system.

2. no, I think that "an economic system in which the workers are in control of the means of production" is pretty much the textbook definition of communism.

1. Do you have any evidence of this? Or is it just pure speculation?

2. That isn't what you said though. What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think that one thing that should be made perfectly clear is that an
employee is -NEVER- paid their full value.  If they were, the employer
would make no profit off of them, and that is the purpose of employing
people in the first place.

To put it VERY simply, employment is a form of exploitation.

I make handcrafted goods and sell them at a profit.  I reap the full
value of my employment as an artist, because it is self-employment.

So everyone should make knick knacks and we would live in a utopia.

Gotcha.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Nigel, I think I love you.

However, I don't think it's viable for everyone to be petty bourgeois, like you seem to be advocating.

Capitalism cannot exist without exploitation.

It's a pack of bullshit.

What are stupid people going to do?  Is EVERYONE or even the MAJORITY of people  able to run their own business?

This is nothing more than Ayn Rand Libertarian bullshit.

[East Coast Hustle]

1. because that's what happens when you remove any sort of incentive for personal success from a larger economic system.

2. no, I think that "an economic system in which the workers are in control of the means of production" is pretty much the textbook definition of communism.

1. Do you have any evidence of this? Or is it just pure speculation?

2. That isn't what you said though. What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

1. pure speculation in that I have never taken any formal economic theory classes....experiential evidence, however, stemming from my time as a business owner.

2. what?

[Messier Undertree]

1. because that's what happens when you remove any sort of incentive for personal success from a larger economic system.

2. no, I think that "an economic system in which the workers are in control of the means of production" is pretty much the textbook definition of communism.

1. Do you have any evidence of this? Or is it just pure speculation?

2. That isn't what you said though. What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

1. pure speculation in that I have never taken any formal economic theory classes....experiential evidence, however, stemming from my time as a business owner.

2. what?

1. Economic theory classes hardly give you clairvoyance. And how does owning a business give you experiential evidence of communism?

2. Exactly what I said.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

2.  What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

Nonexistent.  Ever. 

[Messier Undertree]

2.  What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

Nonexistent.  Ever. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

2.  What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

Nonexistent.  Ever. 

Deal with it, hippie.  Communism has failed for exactly the same reason as capitalism has (though in a different way).

[Messier Undertree]

2.  What you did say was more like your biased opinion of what a communist economy would be like.

Nonexistent.  Ever. 

Deal with it, hippie.  Communism has failed for exactly the same reason as capitalism has (though in a different way).

The state?