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Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, January 12, 2008, 09:09:27 AM

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Darth Cupcake

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 15, 2008, 06:48:56 PM
That's why my ideal girlfriend is not programmed to judge or feel shame. My sexuality is part of who I am - and I feel no need to obfuscate it. If I'm in a relationship where I have to - well, time to move on.


Cram rides the motorcycle of infinite correctness ITT

Because if nothing else, by openly discussing what you're into, you can discover if you're both into it, or interested in becoming into it. Because no matter how compatible you are in other areas, if the sex life can't happen, the relationship is just a glorified friendship.

Sexuality SHOULDN'T be shameful. But there's a lot of people in our culture that view it as such, which is why, at the end of the day, if you KNOW something will make problems, don't instigate. Did that make sense?

Like if you KNOW your girlfriend will get upset over you jerking off to XYZ porn, but the sex life you two share covers all the bases of what you want out of shared sex, just let your jerking off habits lie. Whereas, if you jerk off to something that you'd like to bring into the relationship, then it's time to talk about it.

Did that make sense? My office is suddenly flooded with people, so my brain is a billionty different places.
Be the trouble you want to see in the world.

Cain

WHEN I WAS
\


requesting rule 34

Cain

Quote from: Darth Cupcake on January 15, 2008, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 15, 2008, 06:48:56 PM
That's why my ideal girlfriend is not programmed to judge or feel shame. My sexuality is part of who I am - and I feel no need to obfuscate it. If I'm in a relationship where I have to - well, time to move on.


Cram rides the motorcycle of infinite correctness ITT

Because if nothing else, by openly discussing what you're into, you can discover if you're both into it, or interested in becoming into it. Because no matter how compatible you are in other areas, if the sex life can't happen, the relationship is just a glorified friendship.

Sexuality SHOULDN'T be shameful. But there's a lot of people in our culture that view it as such, which is why, at the end of the day, if you KNOW something will make problems, don't instigate.


http://www.anxietyculture.com/guilt.htm


The Guilt System

Written by Marie Fraenkel, Psy.D.,
exclusively for Anxiety Culture

Most of the unpleasantness of the "real world" – the competitiveness, hostility, resentment, anxiety – can be traced to the guilt system. In a sense we each created our own version of Hell from our first encounter with guilt. The fall from grace occurred during infancy when we received the message (usually from our parents) that we're "bad" or "not good enough". This led to our first "bad" thought, resulting in the Nightmare of Guilt from which we've been running ever since.

The depth of this guilt shouldn't be underestimated. Relative to the infant's previously innocent universe, doing something "bad" was equivalent to murdering all good. Not knowing how to dispel this gnawing sense of guilt, we eventually entered "normal society", which functions essentially as a guilt-projection system for recirculating undigested guilt.
How does the Guilt System work?

We each carry a burden of unresolved guilt from our childhood. We repress it (ie hide it from ourselves, deny it) and we project it onto others. This projection takes the following form: We see ourselves in a competitive, threatening world, but we're not guilty of creating this world; it's them out there – those bastards – who are guilty of creating the unpleasantness.

Competitive society – with its constricting fear, pettiness and suppressed rage – can hurt us psychologically only if we participate in the guilt system. Our own repressed guilt makes us vulnerable to the system's effects. We've become unwitting receptacles for the rebounding projection of our own guilt at a social level. The guilt we hide in ourselves creates an attenuated expectancy of punishment, which makes us feel insecure and defensive, leading to irritability, resentment, hatred... and more guilt.

A simple solution exists: to reject the idea of guilt as meaningless. What did your first "guilty" thought mean? It meant nothing (except in your agitated mind). Neither did the next, or the next... Yet by accepting guilt as real, you created a personal Hell. "Society" is the name we give to the guilty Hell we share. Society's most popular pastime is comparing oneself to others in ways that make us seem good-by-comparison. This is just a desperate, unsatisfying attempt to compensate for our hidden feelings of "badness" and guilt.*

You can undo guilt by seeing your true innocence. Not in the sense of an arbitrary moral judgement on your past, but unconditional innocence in the present moment, which means always. In truth, you cannot "be" guilty. You can accept the guilt-programming in your personality if you want life-long misery, but to believe that you – a unique being in unique circumstances – can "be" guilty seems insane. In fact, anything but a perception of your unconditional innocence leads to insanity. Unfortunately, the socially-programmed personality rejects this perspective as "immoral". In other words, it can't escape its evaluation of its own guilt: it judges rejection of guilt as the ultimate guilty act.

Guilt originally developed as a "religious" social-control mechanism, used for keeping the slaves and peasants in line. We can do without it.** But, I hear someone asking, how will people stop doing bad things if they don't feel guilty? Guilt probably never stopped anyone doing "bad" things. Intelligence, compassion and democratic laws seem better candidates for that role.

But, but...?! I know, it's blasphemous, irresponsible, dangerous, etc, to think in this way, and God will strike you down for it. Or at least that appears to be the belief of the "guilty" and the insane. This article isn't a licence to be stupid and callous, but a licence to stop being guilty; to undo the social fiction of guilt; to wake up from your socially-programmed guilt-trance and feel the serene invulnerability of your innocence.
Your innocence cannot fail

Another way to undo guilt is to stop projecting it. We all follow destructive social programming to different degrees, occasionally leading to tragic consequences and large-scale suffering. To regard people "out there" as the guilty parties will only keep you enslaved to your own guilt (since it reflects your decision to accept guilt as an absolute reality). Better to innocently unravel and expose the faulty social programming.

So entrenched is the guilt system, that it will take more than one moment of sanity to undo its effects. The guilt will return – as will the projection of guilt. But every moment of remembered innocence weakens the guilt system and reduces its insane consequences.

East Coast Hustle

Quote from: Cainad on January 15, 2008, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on January 15, 2008, 04:40:40 PM
You're mixing up the points.

ECH's point: images and fantasies in your head do not affect your personality.

Your point: other people's conclusions about your fantasies affect how they treat you.


Big difference.

Please to note the original point of contention:

Quote from: Nigel on January 14, 2008, 09:11:01 PMWhat you masturbate to does tend to affect your rl relationships.

Not to brag, but my point is at least within three parsecs of this one.

If the original point had been that what other people think about what you masturbate to can affect your RL relationships, I'd agree with you.

but...

that is, in fact, NOT what the original point was.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on January 15, 2008, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: Cainad on January 15, 2008, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO on January 15, 2008, 04:40:40 PM
You're mixing up the points.

ECH's point: images and fantasies in your head do not affect your personality.

Your point: other people's conclusions about your fantasies affect how they treat you.


Big difference.

Please to note the original point of contention:

Quote from: Nigel on January 14, 2008, 09:11:01 PMWhat you masturbate to does tend to affect your rl relationships.

Not to brag, but my point is at least within three parsecs of this one.

If the original point had been that what other people think about what you masturbate to can affect your RL relationships, I'd agree with you.

but...

that is, in fact, NOT what the original point was.

Hence my oh-so-witty use of the phrase "within three parsecs."


If the original point had been that what the influence on your personality of what you :fap: to can affect your RL relationships, I'd agree with you.

But that's not the point either.

I don't fucking care what the point is anymore... this is too much fun!
:troll:

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Basically, I think that people should be open about what they're into so that their prospective partners can make an informed decision about whether they want to be in that partnership.

As I said, in my experience, what people masturbate to/fantasize about does tend to leak into their rl relationships. I've had enough experience with this with different people to feel fairly strongly about it. I just want up-frontness about it, because otherwise I may be sideswiped by it AFTER I'm emotionally invested, and that's an ambush; at that point the possibility of emotional extortion emerges, and that's not cool. If you're into gay furry porn, TELL ME AT THE BEGINNING because that could be a deal-breaker.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


AFK

I dunno, I think if someone is a creep-o one would be able to figure that out on dates without delving into nitty gritty personal details. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Richter

I agree w/ RWHN, while people can be into some different stuff, I've found emotional / personality characteristics set off the alarms more frequently outside the metaphorical bedroom, before their pathos manifests maliciously in the inimate milieu.
(I'm having fun with words too.  :wink:)
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

AFK

Seriously, my wife didn't need to see the Nose Flute to know I was a bit off. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 16, 2008, 02:02:17 PM
I dunno, I think if someone is a creep-o one would be able to figure that out on dates without delving into nitty gritty personal details. 

Yes, if someone is a creep-O that does come across loud and clear. But a lot of people are not creep-Os, but perfectly nice people who happen to have some sexual proclivities that are not at all something everyone is into, and regardless of how anyone wants to semanticise the argument, there is usually some crossover from fantasy to personality to relationship, and it is best, in general, to not lie or be deceptive in your relationships if you want everything to go smoothly.

My first husband was a perfectly nice man who was also a sex addict. Not in the "has a high libido" way that some people imagine is sex addiction, but in such insidious and self-destructive ways that he was deeply (and rightfully, in this case) ashamed, and tried unsuccessfully to squash it. It destroyed our marriage.

My current husband was not honest with me about certain things in the early stages of our relationship, mostly due to wishful thinking on his part, and the deception nearly destroyed our marriage. It's nothing shameful, but his lack of honesty, and concealing of information that I needed to make an informed decision about whether I wanted to be in the relationship, severely damaged my trust in him, and that trust is only now healing.

It is best to be honest. If you feel you can't be honest with your partner, maybe he/she isn't the right partner for you, and you should keep looking until you find the right partner. Dishonesty affects relationships even if it's never found out... you cannot have the deepest level of intimacy if there is a dishonesty or a concealed truth between you.

That is my opinion, based on my experience. You are not obliged to share it, but maybe it will be useful to someone, so there it is.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

Quote from: Nigel on January 16, 2008, 06:32:08 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 16, 2008, 02:02:17 PM
I dunno, I think if someone is a creep-o one would be able to figure that out on dates without delving into nitty gritty personal details. 

Yes, if someone is a creep-O that does come across loud and clear. But a lot of people are not creep-Os, but perfectly nice people who happen to have some sexual proclivities that are not at all something everyone is into

Like Ted Bundy.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Nigel on January 12, 2008, 09:09:27 AM
HEARTACHE TO HEARTACHE WE STAND

NO AIR CONDITIONING JUST FANS
Molon Lube

Suu

Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

BabylonHoruv

I agree that being open about your fantasies, early in the relationship, is a good idea.  I have some really disturbing fantasies, If these were to come up after I was involved with someone it could cause serious trouble in the relationship.  I 'd really prefer that they come up early.  Rape fantasies are an easy example.  If I am starting to get involved with someone who has been raped I want to make sure that she knows that I have rape fantasies.  I don't want her thinking I have hidden this from her and have it pop out and have her feel that we grew close under false pretenses.
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Xochipilli on September 10, 2010, 12:11:44 AM
I agree that being open about your fantasies, early in the relationship, is a good idea.  I have some really disturbing fantasies, If these were to come up after I was involved with someone it could cause serious trouble in the relationship.  I 'd really prefer that they come up early.  Rape fantasies are an easy example.  If I am starting to get involved with someone who has been raped I want to make sure that she knows that I have rape fantasies.  I don't want her thinking I have hidden this from her and have it pop out and have her feel that we grew close under false pretenses.

Totally! That's a great example. With the right partner, that's totally hot... with the wrong one, it might be a deal-breaker, and the only way to know is to be as up-front as possible.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."