The worst thread

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I don't see why you all think Cram is secretly a nasty backstabber who would not only sell you out at the first opportunity, but also suddenly become dumb enough to tell you about it before the opportunity even came along.

He didn't TRY to make a buck off other people. HE ASKED ABOUT IT. AND YOU SHAT ON HIM.

Demonizing Cram for wanting to be a little less broke is highly fucked up. Assuming he didn't want to share it fairly is disgusting beyond words.

on your face.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't see why you all think Cram is secretly a nasty backstabber who would not only sell you out at the first opportunity, but also suddenly become dumb enough to tell you about it before the opportunity even came along.

He didn't TRY to make a buck off other people. HE ASKED ABOUT IT. AND YOU SHAT ON HIM.

Demonizing Cram for wanting to be a little less broke is highly fucked up. Assuming he didn't want to share it fairly is disgusting beyond words.

on your face.

The East German judge awards 2/10. Needs more hysterical freaking out!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

On the other hand, P3nT wrote a great rant....

I'm glad someone took it in the spirit it was intended

FTR - I've put a fair bit of work into #6 and then Cain flounces and tells me I'm not allowed to print his shit. Wanna talk about "respect"? Fine, here's the deal - it's a two way street. If you've given me permission to use your stuff and I've already gone to the effort of putting it in, formatting, typesetting and adding gfx and context and then you decide to change your mind just cos you're having a little - toys out pram - moment. Then you just threw my respect away along with your pacifier.

For anyone who is concerned about allowing me to publish let me reiterate - I am not going to sell your work to pay for my next Ferrari.

Clear enough?

Oh, so now this:

This is shit we type on the internets. If you think you can make money on something you've written then go make some fucking money on it. Don't post it in a goddamn message board. Here's the deal - I will use whatever the hell I goddamn well please for #6 (permission or not) If you aint happy with this guess what - that's right you can go fuck yourself. Or grow the fuck up, one of the two.

I'm not planning on making money from it, you sure as hell don't seem to be. If someone else manages it then well fucking done that guy. You want to get all butthurt cos you never thought of it then be my guest but FFS we're not talking the great american novel here and if we are then save it on an encrypted hard drive an guard it with your life. Don't broadcast it in cyberspace, don't expect some joke hippy play on the word "copyright" to somehow protect you.

...was a work of fiction, and not a response to the thread?

I could give a flying fuck whether you're going to try to profit, what I have a problem with is your completely shitty, condescending attitude toward everyone who has ever written anything they gave a fuck about and posted it on this board.

And now you don't even have the respect or balls to apologize - instead you're pretending it was a joke most of us are just too stupid to get.

[P3nT4gR4m]

On the other hand, P3nT wrote a great rant....

I'm glad someone took it in the spirit it was intended

FTR - I've put a fair bit of work into #6 and then Cain flounces and tells me I'm not allowed to print his shit. Wanna talk about "respect"? Fine, here's the deal - it's a two way street. If you've given me permission to use your stuff and I've already gone to the effort of putting it in, formatting, typesetting and adding gfx and context and then you decide to change your mind just cos you're having a little - toys out pram - moment. Then you just threw my respect away along with your pacifier.

For anyone who is concerned about allowing me to publish let me reiterate - I am not going to sell your work to pay for my next Ferrari.

Clear enough?

Oh, so now this:

This is shit we type on the internets. If you think you can make money on something you've written then go make some fucking money on it. Don't post it in a goddamn message board. Here's the deal - I will use whatever the hell I goddamn well please for #6 (permission or not) If you aint happy with this guess what - that's right you can go fuck yourself. Or grow the fuck up, one of the two.

I'm not planning on making money from it, you sure as hell don't seem to be. If someone else manages it then well fucking done that guy. You want to get all butthurt cos you never thought of it then be my guest but FFS we're not talking the great american novel here and if we are then save it on an encrypted hard drive an guard it with your life. Don't broadcast it in cyberspace, don't expect some joke hippy play on the word "copyright" to somehow protect you.

...was a work of fiction, and not a response to the thread?

I could give a flying fuck whether you're going to try to profit, what I have a problem with is your completely shitty, condescending attitude toward everyone who has ever written anything they gave a fuck about and posted it on this board.

And now you don't even have the respect or balls to apologize - instead you're pretending it was a joke most of us are just too stupid to get.

I'll type this real slow, try to keep up. My response was a deliberate overreaction to what I saw as a lot of people overreacting to something really fucking stupid. Apologise? Kiss my ass. As far as I'm concerned the only person due an apology is Cram. Poor guy tried to open a discussion about the prospect of making some money on Intermittens which, the way I see it, would only benefit the community (by paying for a slice of the server costs) or the individual authors/editors by sharing profits. Okay so he might have worded some of it in a way that could be misconstrued but FFS it's not some muppet from a money grabbing publishing company who started this fread its Cramulus. Bit of perspective people. If you honestly think Cram is the kind of person who would seriously consider ripping everyone here off then your head is up your arse and I sure as hell aint apologising for trolling you about it.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

On the other hand, P3nT wrote a great rant....

I'm glad someone took it in the spirit it was intended

FTR - I've put a fair bit of work into #6 and then Cain flounces and tells me I'm not allowed to print his shit. Wanna talk about "respect"? Fine, here's the deal - it's a two way street. If you've given me permission to use your stuff and I've already gone to the effort of putting it in, formatting, typesetting and adding gfx and context and then you decide to change your mind just cos you're having a little - toys out pram - moment. Then you just threw my respect away along with your pacifier.

For anyone who is concerned about allowing me to publish let me reiterate - I am not going to sell your work to pay for my next Ferrari.

Clear enough?

Oh, so now this:

This is shit we type on the internets. If you think you can make money on something you've written then go make some fucking money on it. Don't post it in a goddamn message board. Here's the deal - I will use whatever the hell I goddamn well please for #6 (permission or not) If you aint happy with this guess what - that's right you can go fuck yourself. Or grow the fuck up, one of the two.

I'm not planning on making money from it, you sure as hell don't seem to be. If someone else manages it then well fucking done that guy. You want to get all butthurt cos you never thought of it then be my guest but FFS we're not talking the great american novel here and if we are then save it on an encrypted hard drive an guard it with your life. Don't broadcast it in cyberspace, don't expect some joke hippy play on the word "copyright" to somehow protect you.

...was a work of fiction, and not a response to the thread?

I could give a flying fuck whether you're going to try to profit, what I have a problem with is your completely shitty, condescending attitude toward everyone who has ever written anything they gave a fuck about and posted it on this board.

And now you don't even have the respect or balls to apologize - instead you're pretending it was a joke most of us are just too stupid to get.

I'll type this real slow, try to keep up. My response was a deliberate overreaction to what I saw as a lot of people overreacting to something really fucking stupid. Apologise? Kiss my ass. As far as I'm concerned the only person due an apology is Cram. Poor guy tried to open a discussion about the prospect of making some money on Intermittens which, the way I see it, would only benefit the community (by paying for a slice of the server costs) or the individual authors/editors by sharing profits. Okay so he might have worded some of it in a way that could be misconstrued but FFS it's not some muppet from a money grabbing publishing company who started this fread its Cramulus. Bit of perspective people. If you honestly think Cram is the kind of person who would seriously consider ripping everyone here off then your head is up your arse and I sure as hell aint apologising for trolling you about it.

This is the same sentiment that set me off as well...

Out of all the people on this board, Cramulus and Telarus would be among the last I would suspect of trying to rip someone off. Lys, of course, is an evil capitalist pig...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't need to apologize to Cramulus because I didn't accuse him of anything. Direct your ire at an appropriate person, please.

You think you don't need to apologize for raining shit on EVERYONE who posts their work here, because you think a couple of people overreacted? You basically flipped the bird to me and everyone else who contributes, and you think it's completely justified and you don't need apologize, and can in fact continue being insulting toward me, because someone ELSE got pissed at Cram.

OK then.

I will definitely not ever voluntarily contribute anything to any project you try to organize, knowing how you feel about the "help".

[AFK]

I just thought P3nt was saying, if you have something you think is really good, and that you think you would like to maintain some rights over it, don't post it here.  He wasn't suggesting, I don't think, that because people are posting stuff here then that stuff is shit, but that if any of us are going to have problems with losing control over how our stuff might get spread, repackaged, etc., we should consider whether it is wise to put it here at all.  Not just because of what someone HERE might do with it, but the myriad of anonymous people who never sign up here.  The Internet is still pretty much the wild west. 

That was my interpretation anyway. 

[Richter]

I just thought P3nt was saying, if you have something you think is really good, and that you think you would like to maintain some rights over it, don't post it here.  He wasn't suggesting, I don't think, that because people are posting stuff here then that stuff is shit, but that if any of us are going to have problems with losing control over how our stuff might get spread, repackaged, etc., we should consider whether it is wise to put it here at all.  Not just because of what someone HERE might do with it, but the myriad of anonymous people who never sign up here.  The Internet is still pretty much the wild west. 

That was my interpretation anyway. 

TITCM

[Cainad (dec.)]

If I have ideas that I want to make money from or keep my IRL name exclusively attached to, I don't post it here. That means shite like The Iconoclast's Manifesto is up for grabs, in terms of publication. It's already published on Verwirrung under my interwebs name, so anyone could theoretically steal it and make buttloads of money by claiming it as theirs, but at least I and everyone else here would know they were a stinking liar. That's good enough for me, personally.

[Telarus]

For fucks sake. ALL I WANT is a "professional looking" (and preferably as-cheap-as-possible) version of Intermittens to leave around coffee shops and other strategic locations. I want to present you bloody irritable spags in the best light possible in future jakes/gasms instead of having people immediately dismiss the work as "just some crappy zine on stapled together printer paper".


I also think Danny's idea was good, and I'll put some planning towards that. If/When that happens, I'll make sure to run it by each author/submitter and if they don't want the free exposure, then that's their choice.

[Triple Zero]

As far as I'm concerned the only person due an apology is Cram. Poor guy tried to open a discussion about the prospect of making some money on Intermittens which, the way I see it, would only benefit the community (by paying for a slice of the server costs) or the individual authors/editors by sharing profits. Okay so he might have worded some of it in a way that could be misconstrued but FFS it's not some muppet from a money grabbing publishing company who started this fread its Cramulus. Bit of perspective people. If you honestly think Cram is the kind of person who would seriously consider ripping everyone here off then your head is up your arse and I sure as hell aint apologising for trolling you about it.

THIS.

I could give a flying fuck whether you're going to try to profit, what I have a problem with is your completely shitty, condescending attitude toward everyone who has ever written anything they gave a fuck about and posted it on this board.

And now you don't even have the respect or balls to apologize - instead you're pretending it was a joke most of us are just too stupid to get.

most? please to speak for yourself. i got it just fine. you're the one making a big deal about an obvious hyperbole.

We could have ended this easily at the first page if one or two authors would have said "I don't give consent to have my works used for profit".

Somebody did. He was angry, and worded it strongly, but he was very clear.

yes but he also flipped the fuck out, denied use of any of his pieces for Intermittens (regardless of whether the issue would be sold), flounced and threw in his mod-hat over it. A complete overreaction, charging the rest of the discussion in a very negative colour instead of the open constructive manner about ways of distributing Intermittens in print it could have been.

Everybody knows Cramulus, Lys or Telarus wouldnt have gone against the wishes of the authors. Just stating "I dont want my stuff used for profit" would have been enough, even if it's a reminder.

If all the positive creative energy over the Intermittens projects washes out because of this thread, it is not Cram or Lys that are to blame for merely bringing up a subject.

Okay, that being said, and having read most of the thread, I see no reason to continue ranting, or to finish the handbook, or post podcasts. I did it for FUN, not so some fucking tapeworm could make a quick buck off of my writing.

gee why doesnt that surprise me it was only a matter of time before something, *anything* would happen. last time (POEE, 3 years ago) you didnt get past chapter one, was there a similar situation, someone pissed you off? I just got around these places, I never heard anything about it.
so you're gonna let P3NT scare you into silence over this? even though he obviously wasnt serious. but this is SERIOUS BUSINESS to you, isnt it? what's that you said about fun? no? which is it? see P3NT wasnt serious, but any moron on the internet could come here, copypasta your work, try and make a profit, and you wouldnt even know about it. but you never let that bother you, did you? but P3NT makes a remark and no more candy for PD.

if anyone, it would be the PD spags that would drop such a publication at the merest statement of discontent from an author. not the random anonymous moron from the internet. the PD spag would receive so much public scorn from it, it would not be funny, outcast from the tribe, worst punishment. but you threaten him with a lawsuit. i'm assuming you are completely for real about what you're saying (having read MSY), and in that case it makes me go what. the. fuck. get a sense of perspective. so didnt tentasticle stalk you and phone your dad or granddad or something? but P3NT gets legal doom for a flippant remark?





to me this is no longer about copyrights. i've given my views about that several pages ago, and as far as I can gather, there is not much disagreement. you ask for permission first, simple as that.

instead, this is about kicking a creative collaborative project in the crotch, about freaking the fuck out and flouncing, about threatening with heavy duty legal cases and running people bankrupt over the mere suggestion of a hint to a non existant profit margin that wouldn realistically amount to no more than $15 of which "your share" would perhaps be a hypothetical one or two dollars.

and the result?

of course nobody sells anything. but that wouldnt have happened either way if people disagreed to it. but right now Cram is seriously rethinking whether he's gonna put energy into Intermittens after he finishes issue Lesser Poop, not because he can't make a profit, but because he's getting really sick and tired of having to waste his energy on that dumb rockstar attitude of you guys. and I bet he's not the only one. I bet there's people with a brilliant idea for a group project that are going to think twice now, because they might take one misstep, make a suggestion they believe is innocent and worth discussing, and get flamed to a crisp.

Great work, you assholes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I just thought P3nt was saying, if you have something you think is really good, and that you think you would like to maintain some rights over it, don't post it here.  He wasn't suggesting, I don't think, that because people are posting stuff here then that stuff is shit, but that if any of us are going to have problems with losing control over how our stuff might get spread, repackaged, etc., we should consider whether it is wise to put it here at all.  Not just because of what someone HERE might do with it, but the myriad of anonymous people who never sign up here.  The Internet is still pretty much the wild west. 

That was my interpretation anyway. 

That's not what he wrote, though. You can "interpret" it any way you want, but I interpreted what he wrote literally. Taken literallly, it was pretty fucking rude.

Also, telling people what they "shouldn't do" with their own work is pretty douchebaggy IMO. Sometimes people have reasons for wanting to post stuff on the Internet, and they can make their own decisions without a pack of holier-than-thous telling them that if they want to keep ownership of their work, they should keep it to themselves. Sure, once you publish anything, in any form, it's "out there" and can be misappropriated or plagiarized. Fuck, when I worked in a bookstore I saw a Neruda poem in a freshly-published "new poet" anthology. Once it's circulating in any form, some assholes somewhere are probably going to abuse it, and it only counts against them if they get caught. Does that mean that no one should ever post/publish/share their writing or artwork?

I, personally, think that would be stupid. The opinion "Don't post it if you want to keep your rights to it" has been argued so many times online for so many years anything we say is simply redundant at this point. Yes, once something is on the net it is impossible to be sure no one is misappropriating it... and that's a tradeoff many people have been willing to make for whatever benefit THEY THINK they are gaining by posting it.

Whether random strangers are lifting essays from this site and republishing them elsewhere is IRRELEVANT. The only thing that concerns me is whether that kind of disrespect toward each other within our group, within this particular branch of Discordia, is going to be embraced or discarded.

So far, we've lost the contributions of two damn decent writers because of certain assumptions and attitudes toward their work. Maybe that should be considered with some weight, if it matters at all to any of you. Regardless of whether you think people should post work they care about keeping their copyright to.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I
And now you don't even have the respect or balls to apologize - instead you're pretending it was a joke most of us are just too stupid to get.

most? please to speak for yourself. i got it just fine. you're the one making a big deal about an obvious hyperbole.

OK, so it's just me and Roger who were too stupid to get the joke, and rather than explain he just insults me further.

And now, of course, we're prima donnas who are ruining things for everyone?

[AFK]

This collaboration stuff has been going on since the PD06 days.  There's never been any strife except for the occassional creative differences arguments until now when the idea of selling something was introduced.  The easy solution was, "Hey, don't sell MY stuff."  Like others have said, Cram has demonstrated himself to be a pretty upstanding guy and I'm fairly certain that's all it would take for him to not do something.  So where is the rub after that?  Why all the hub-bub about something that has such an easy solution?  I really don't understand it at all.  It really feels like some people wanted this to be a big problem to justify some rash conclusions and behavior.

It's called communication people.

[LMNO]

To be clear, whether or not there were underlying issues, Cain's main point of contention was that someone thought it might be a good idea to make a profit from intermittens, and not share that profit with the writers.

Fin.  The end.

The whole business of copyright happened later.