The BIP is not a Discordian work: discuss

[nobody]

heh, i specifically said in one of my posts i'm not trying to say "you're doing it wrong" yet cain accuses me of saying. being discordian is all about doing it however you want, and thinking whatever you want about whatever whenever. i'll go on forever thinking the BIP isn't a discordian work, but realizing some people feel differently about it. some people feel so differently about it they feel they need to spend hours arguing about it. are their efforts going to reshape my black iron prison? possibly, but certainly not in the way they intend.

[Cramulus]

What I wonder is what people are hoping to accomplish with criticism of the BIP?

most of us involved with the production of the BIP like hearing feedback. Even when we don't agree with it.

Taking to the authors a critique of a work that's not going to be revised seems kind of pointless to me.

who says it's not going to be revised??

I released my version of the BIP pamphlet based on my reaction to the original and the feedback we received here at the site. If we didn't want people to come give us feedback, why is this subforum partially titled "this is for people involved or interested in the BIP"?


Other people are free to release their own versions, as TssoBR is doing. That means it's not "done", and discussion about the BIP and its flaws shouldn't be verboten.

I mean srsly, there are four threads in this subforum discussing the BIP right now. I just don't understand the "why are you trying to talk to us about this?" vibe. This is part of the creation process!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm intrigued by your wording, particularly your statements about certain things not being Discordian. Not that they don't work for your personal Discordia, but that to you they are "Not Discordian". Do you also view other people as "Not Discordian"?

In a way, I think we all have our own Discordia, and in fact in my Discordia I perceive pretty much everything as Discordian, so the idea of putting specific things outside of Discordia is interesting and confusing.

Your Discordia appears to be very, very different from mine. Do you see "Non-Discordian" things differently from "Discordian" things? Are there more or fewer "Non-Discordian" than "Discordian" things in your Discordia?

The BIP seems to have sowed some discord... are things that sow discord still "Non-Discordian" for you? If yes, how do you reconcile that apparent contradiction?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What I wonder is what people are hoping to accomplish with criticism of the BIP?

most of us involved with the production of the BIP like hearing feedback. Even when we don't agree with it.

Taking to the authors a critique of a work that's not going to be revised seems kind of pointless to me.

who says it's not going to be revised??

I released my version of the BIP pamphlet based on my reaction to the original and the feedback we received here at the site. If we didn't want people to come give us feedback, why is this subforum partially titled "this is for people involved or interested in the BIP"?


Other people are free to release their own versions, as TssoBR is doing. That means it's not "done", and discussion about the BIP and its flaws shouldn't be verboten.

I mean srsly, there are four threads in this subforum discussing the BIP right now. I just don't understand the "why are you trying to talk to us about this?" vibe. This is part of the creation process!

Well, then let me revise my statement... why don't they publish their own revision, then?

I am asking questions, not telling people to stop. Is it wrong to ask questions? I really don't get why it makes sense to write a lengthy in-depth critique of an old project with many authors, and I want to know what people's aims and goals are when they do it. I seriously want to know. You seem to be perturbed that I would ask. In fact, you say that you "Don't understand" it.  You're questioning my questioning.

It's been critiqued a bunch of times, and I don't see a whole bunch of revisions floating around.

Maybe it's time for another one. Who knows. However, the critiques seem to typically take the form of "Everything needs to be different" and in that case, it's not so much a revision as a whole new project.

[Cain]

I'm up for a whole new project - if someone has a theme they think can be mined deeply and in a number of interesting ways.

[AFK]

If this were a buffet I would take a little of General Cram's Chicken and a little of the Nigel Pow Chicken.

I agree with Cram that the feedback on the BIP can be useful.  As it turns out, my sensibility on nobody's critique is that it is more along the lines of Laz's non-constructive critique.  I think nobody has a very narrow view of what Discordianism is, but I suppose that is really his issue, not ours.  

I also agree with Nigel in the respect that, while the BIP has been revised a couple of times, and I've shared this opinion many times I know, maybe it is just time to move on.  I know, I'm a sentimental purist but I really think there was this original energy that went into the BIP and churned out what it churned out.  I think perhaps it is time for a new bundle of energy to churn out something different.  Perhaps it can be a new take on the territory the BIP was trying to cover, but I think maybe it just needs to be a totally new publication.  

Historical perspectives are important, and I think it is important that at some point the BIP can stand alone as one of the many historical Discordian (fuck you nobody) publications along side the more notable and older ones.  

So that's my drivel on the topic.  

[nobody]

things that stir discord aren't necessarily discordian, because discordianism isn't just discord, it's a "religon" i don't really judge whether people are discordian or not, i take them at their word, and make value judgements as to whether they are "bad" or "good" at whatever filter they've asked people to view them through. there are much more non-discordian things then discordian things. things that sow discord are often non-discordian, do you think the korean war was discordian? it sure brought a lot of discord. i don't think satanic verses was discordian either, and it created lots of discord. it's absurd to think anything creating discord is explicity discordian, although i do get the point it might help things a long a little bit.

[AFK]

things that stir discord aren't necessarily discordian, because discordianism isn't just discord, it's a "religon" i don't really judge whether people are discordian or not, i take them at their word, and make value judgements as to whether they are "bad" or "good" at whatever filter they've asked people to view them through. there are much more non-discordian things then discordian things. things that sow discord are often non-discordian, do you think the korean war was discordian? it sure brought a lot of discord. i don't think satanic verses was discordian either, and it created lots of discord. it's absurd to think anything creating discord is explicity discordian, although i do get the point it might help things a long a little bit.

Where in the BIP does it say it is trying to "stir discord"?  Or that it is "just" trying to "stir discord"?

[nobody]

i didn't say that the BIP was, i was replying to a comment a few above mine about if i think things that stir discord are discordian. some of you people are awfully bad at paying attention to be so pedantic

[LMNO]

For the most part, no one seems to be arguing about the mechanics of the BIP - after all, it's just a version of "reality grids".

The notable exception being Rat, which led to the GSP, and then his weird "rollercoaster/submarine" metaphor.

Most people seem to dislike the "tone" or "attitude" of the BIP, which makes me think that if we wrote it in a Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett style, then no one would have a problem.

Which is fucking retarded.

[Cain]

STFU MY MOTHER WAS KILLED BY FUCKING RETARDS WHO DISLIKED SOMETHING MERELY BECAUSE IT PRESENTED IDEAS THEY MORE OR LESS AGREED WITH IN A LITERARY STYLE THEY DID NOT LIKE.

[Arafelis]

If you rewrote the BIP as well as a Douglas Adams work, I absolutely would not have a problem.

Similarly, if I finished the BIP and I wanted to kill myself the way I did after reading some of Phillip K. Dick's works for the first time, I would absolutely have no problem.

One of the points I made in my first post to this thread was that it's not either of those things.  It's neither hot nor cold.

[LMNO]

Oh, so you don't like it because it's poorly written?

[Triple Zero]

Most people seem to dislike the "tone" or "attitude" of the BIP, which makes me think that if we wrote it in a Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchett style, then no one would have a problem.

I bet if we'd insert "fnord" every 23rd word, a lot of them would simply eat it up.

Might not be a half-bad idea actually.

Which is fucking retarded.

Yes but you gotta write for your audience right

[Arafelis]

Oh, so you don't like it because it's poorly written?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry right now.