Pharm parties-Rx abuse

[Cain]

Is it exaggerated perhaps in some news stories for dramatic effect?  Sure, show me any news topic where that doesn't happen. 

Missing women who are either not white, or unattractive.

You're welcome.

[East Coast Hustle]

I just don't understand why we spend so much money and effort on keeping idiots alive until they're old enough to make more idiots.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I just don't understand why we spend so much money and effort on keeping idiots alive until they're old enough to make more idiots.

Them hods ain't gonna carry themselves.

[Captain Utopia]

I was thinking more along the lines of agencies, like mine, that are on the front lines actually doing the educating.  And we typically develop our own curriculum and do not rely upon the federal government.  That is, I assume, what fictionpuss was referring to, or maybe not.  

I have no problem at all with substance abuse and prevention agencies who deal on the front lines, helping people who need that help.

I do have a problem with the more memorable campaigns such as "this is your brain on drugs" or "do a line of coke and you'll have a heart attack". I understand the motivation to exaggerate and distort - but as a kid likely has friends who already have first hand accounts of drug X,Y or Z, then such fear tactics are easily identified as lies. You can debate whether this actually makes kids more likely to take drugs when they know they are being lied to, but at the very least it's a wasted opportunity for real education.

It does generate a culture of fear, and I'm not sure how you'd even begin to separate that from funding decisions. But that said, just because I don't recall seeing any adverts from anti-drug charities or agencies which didn't use scare-tactics, it doesn't mean to say that there aren't any examples out there somewhere.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

For me, its an issue of evidence. I use some drugs, I hang out with people that use party drugs... Hell, I have friends that are a decade or so younger than me that play far more heavily in the drug scene than I do.

I agree 100% that kids are stealing prescription drugs and abusing them... in some cases, kids are getting prescription for drugs and sharing/selling those. I've SEEN that. In my opinion, that is a far more concerning and scary issue than all the weed in Miggs County.

Further, I agree that kids share drugs that they get.

However, since the first time I heard of pharma parties, I've never heard anyone in the scene talk about them. That seems off to me. It may only be popular in some area of the country and I just haven't experienced it.... but it doesn't sound all that reasonable. While I respect you my dear RWHN and the work you do... I must say that this sounds more like the exaggerated bullshit used by some anti-drug groups than something real... sorta like the discussion we had awhile back where someone at a conference said pot growers were sneaking drugs into the growing and spiking the product. It's just doesn't seem credible for those of us that have interacted with the real world as participants. I don't mean that as an insult either... or as a statement that rx-drugs aren't being abused or aren't a major problem.

However, again, in my limited experience with young people that do drugs... this sort of thing (if they've never experienced anything like it) seems more likely to make them think the whole Drug treatment/prevention thing is a pack of lies and a bad joke. I mean, that's how the whole "OMGZ tainted Pot" meme got treated by people I know.

Could it be happening? Sure... Is it happening? I don't know. Are the warnings considered credible by people involved in the drug scene? Doesn't seem like it from my perspective.

I think that about covers my view...  

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was thinking more along the lines of agencies, like mine, that are on the front lines actually doing the educating.  And we typically develop our own curriculum and do not rely upon the federal government.  That is, I assume, what fictionpuss was referring to, or maybe not.  

I have no problem at all with substance abuse and prevention agencies who deal on the front lines, helping people who need that help.

I do have a problem with the more memorable campaigns such as "this is your brain on drugs" or "do a line of coke and you'll have a heart attack". I understand the motivation to exaggerate and distort - but as a kid likely has friends who already have first hand accounts of drug X,Y or Z, then such fear tactics are easily identified as lies. You can debate whether this actually makes kids more likely to take drugs when they know they are being lied to, but at the very least it's a wasted opportunity for real education.

It does generate a culture of fear, and I'm not sure how you'd even begin to separate that from funding decisions. But that said, just because I don't recall seeing any adverts from anti-drug charities or agencies which didn't use scare-tactics, it doesn't mean to say that there aren't any examples out there somewhere.

D.A.R.E.

End of story.

[AFK]

I was thinking more along the lines of agencies, like mine, that are on the front lines actually doing the educating.  And we typically develop our own curriculum and do not rely upon the federal government.  That is, I assume, what fictionpuss was referring to, or maybe not.  

I have no problem at all with substance abuse and prevention agencies who deal on the front lines, helping people who need that help.

I do have a problem with the more memorable campaigns such as "this is your brain on drugs" or "do a line of coke and you'll have a heart attack". I understand the motivation to exaggerate and distort - but as a kid likely has friends who already have first hand accounts of drug X,Y or Z, then such fear tactics are easily identified as lies. You can debate whether this actually makes kids more likely to take drugs when they know they are being lied to, but at the very least it's a wasted opportunity for real education.

Yeah, here's the thing.  Those ads you see on TV...they represent a tiny portion of the overall drug education that goes on in this country.  Most of the education is undertaken by outfits such as my own.  We are the ones schools call to come in and do the education.  They don't phone up the guy who did the "this is your brain on drugs" commercials.  They call the people who are actually educated and have backgrounds in the field. 

It does generate a culture of fear, and I'm not sure how you'd even begin to separate that from funding decisions.

Because the drug commercials you see on TV have nothing to do with the grant proposal I send in to the state. 

But that said, just because I don't recall seeing any adverts from anti-drug charities or agencies which didn't use scare-tactics, it doesn't mean to say that there aren't any examples out there somewhere.

But your prior statement was implying that EVERY or at least a majority of the agencies were doing so.  But you don't actually have any information to back that up other than a generalized opinion based upon advertisements created by federal agencies. 

[AFK]

However, since the first time I heard of pharma parties, I've never heard anyone in the scene talk about them. That seems off to me. It may only be popular in some area of the country and I just haven't experienced it.... but it doesn't sound all that reasonable. While I respect you my dear RWHN and the work you do... I must say that this sounds more like the exaggerated bullshit used by some anti-drug groups than something real... sorta like the discussion we had awhile back where someone at a conference said pot growers were sneaking drugs into the growing and spiking the product. It's just doesn't seem credible for those of us that have interacted with the real world as participants. I don't mean that as an insult either... or as a statement that rx-drugs aren't being abused or aren't a major problem.

However, again, in my limited experience with young people that do drugs... this sort of thing (if they've never experienced anything like it) seems more likely to make them think the whole Drug treatment/prevention thing is a pack of lies and a bad joke. I mean, that's how the whole "OMGZ tainted Pot" meme got treated by people I know.

[Iason Ouabache]

RWHN, no one is saying that teenage prescription drug abuse is not a problem. It's well documented that kid have been abusing prescription pain killers for years now. What we are disputing is the fact that "pharm parties" are a common occurrence or an "epidemic". The idea of kids putting an assortment of pills in a bowl and popping them like candy seems very far fetched. There may be isolated incidents of that happening but there is a low probability of it being a common occurrence nationwide. It smells like media scare tactics that can often pull the focus off of the real problems that are happening. There's no reason to lie about something like this when the truth is just as scary.

While there is, as yet, no quantitative data on the phenomenon, there have been focus groups done, and other forms of qualitative research that show it is happening.  So please tell me what amount is okay and what amount is too much.  I mean, if you look at all drug abuse amongst adolescents, compared to the overall adolescent population, most kids don't do drugs.  So, does that mean we don't pay attention to it when it happens?  No.  So why is that different when we hear about kids engaging in this kind of risky behavior with Rx drugs.  It's not worth concern and attention because only a small percentage are doing it? 

That sounds like something a health insurance company would say about the tiny minority of people not getting health insurance.  It's not an epidemic, so why do anything about it, right?

Hey, slow down there, buddy. I think we are talking past each other. Here's the stuff we agree on: A large number of teenagers are stealing and abusing prescription drugs from the family medicine cabinet. These kids will sometimes share these drugs with their friends during parties. The part that I disagree with is the story of kids dumping a random assortment of drugs into a community bowl, grabbing out a handful and popping them into their mouth before determining what they are. That's the only thing I was calling bullshit on because it seems implausible as an epidemic especially since there is no evidence right now to back it up. Take a chill pill, dude.

[AFK]

Is there really a big difference between a group of kids dumping Rx drugs in a bowl and swapping and a group of kids swapping a small handful of drugs?  Especially when, depending on what you are taking, the first one or two pills could put you in the ER anyway?  Either way what is happening is kids are randomly taking random Rx drugs without concern of what they are and what they will do to them.  Seriously, we're arguing about a label when the important thing is the behavior and the negative impacts it can have on kids. 

[Captain Utopia]

But that said, just because I don't recall seeing any adverts from anti-drug charities or agencies which didn't use scare-tactics, it doesn't mean to say that there aren't any examples out there somewhere.

But your prior statement was implying that EVERY or at least a majority of the agencies were doing so.  But you don't actually have any information to back that up other than a generalized opinion based upon advertisements created by federal agencies. 

Fair enough.

[Captain Utopia]

Is there really a big difference between a group of kids dumping Rx drugs in a bowl and swapping and a group of kids swapping a small handful of drugs?  Especially when, depending on what you are taking, the first one or two pills could put you in the ER anyway?  Either way what is happening is kids are randomly taking random Rx drugs without concern of what they are and what they will do to them.  Seriously, we're arguing about a label when the important thing is the behavior and the negative impacts it can have on kids. 

I think it makes a difference. I recall that when I realised that my drug education had been riddled with scaremongering and misinformation, that made me feel more liberated to experiment more and make up my own damn mind.

If it's an easily detectable falsehood or exaggeration, then I think it does more harm than good, because then everything that messenger says is suspect.

[Captain Utopia]

And while it's neither desirable or responsible for kids to be taking recreational drugs, it is relatively more responsible for kids to be swapping/trading known drugs than putting them into a bowl and grabbing random handfuls.

[Iason Ouabache]

Is there really a big difference between a group of kids dumping Rx drugs in a bowl and swapping and a group of kids swapping a small handful of drugs?  Especially when, depending on what you are taking, the first one or two pills could put you in the ER anyway?  Either way what is happening is kids are randomly taking random Rx drugs without concern of what they are and what they will do to them.  Seriously, we're arguing about a label when the important thing is the behavior and the negative impacts it can have on kids. 

In the long run there isn't much difference, which is why it makes no sense that they would push a questionable meme about Pharming Parties. It's better to tell the truth about what is going on rather than pushing urban legends with almost no backing. As Roger allude to, there is the DARE effect when it comes to stuff like this. If you push too many exaggerations and flat out lies you will lose all of your credibility when they discover the truth. They will think "Hey, they lied about how bad marijuana is so they must have been lying about cocaine and meth too."

[fomenter]

i doubt it is random as well, there may be some kids doing that, but i would bet that kid are attaching social status to being knowledgeable about effects and dosages of drugs, (the kids that "knew stuff " were the cool ones way back when, and i suspect it still works like that)

if the number of kids swallowing random sized hand fulls of random prescriptions were high so would overdose and death rates, kids are surely taking risks but common sense must keep the amounts of truly random drug mixing limited