This is the sort of idiocy we have to put up with - IRC edition

[East Coast Hustle]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

I would hazard to say that is true, within context. During military exercises, for instance; it situations where the ability to simply listen & obey without hesitation may be crucial to not only your own survival, but the survival of the whole unit.

However, the ability to listen & obey without thinking is a learned skill. If you've ever worked with one of those stupid fucks who questions every fucking thing they're asked to do, or is constantly coming up with "better" ways to do things before they even understand the process they're being asked to follow, you know exactly what I mean.

I think I already e-primed it enough, but I would also argue that there is a difference between willingly learning a skill and being trained to have a routine response (obeying without hesitation) to a particular stimulus (orders given from a commanding officer in the field).

In my limited experience, people I know who have served in the military fall into both camps. My armchair assessment is that for people who are not predisposed to taking the "learning it as a skillset" approach, the training itself probably makes it more difficult for them to TFYS, S! in the long run.

[East Coast Hustle]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

Incorrect.  In the infantry, it is assumed that a private may wind up in command.  Individual initiative is prized and developed, unlike in the old Soviet style "ride the plan down in flames" approach.

this makes too much sense for me to easily believe that it's a pervasive attitude in such a huge bureaucracy, but I'll take your word for it and be happily surprised.

[-Kel-]

shit like this makes me want to kick people at random.

[Eater of Clowns]

I work a civilian job in a paramilitary organization.  Here's how it works (that I can see).

Chain of command is heavily emphasized.  Decisions and problems go to your direct supervisor, then to that person's direct supervisor, etc.  The ones who get promoted (other than having connections and doing favors, which is how the place is run) are the ones who go up the chain of command for everything.  So how it ultimately works out is you have a bunch of people in charge who have never made any decisions.  I've only been there for a year and I get lieutenants (basically #2 in my daily shift's chain of command) asking me what we're supposed to do for regular operations on weekends.

Accountability is huge here.  I mean, I work in a jail so it's understandable.  If something goes wrong it could mean an inmate completes suicide or an officer gets assaulted.  In those cases there's an investigation as to what procedure may have been altered for things to get that way.  If it's found out that the chain of command wasn't followed there's actual punishment to those that went outside of it, even if their decision was sound.  So to cover your own ass, it make sense to just defer to the higher rank.

My place is pretty fucked up though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

I would hazard to say that is true, within context. During military exercises, for instance; it situations where the ability to simply listen & obey without hesitation may be crucial to not only your own survival, but the survival of the whole unit.

However, the ability to listen & obey without thinking is a learned skill. If you've ever worked with one of those stupid fucks who questions every fucking thing they're asked to do, or is constantly coming up with "better" ways to do things before they even understand the process they're being asked to follow, you know exactly what I mean.

I think I already e-primed it enough, but I would also argue that there is a difference between willingly learning a skill and being trained to have a routine response (obeying without hesitation) to a particular stimulus (orders given from a commanding officer in the field).

In my limited experience, people I know who have served in the military fall into both camps. My armchair assessment is that for people who are not predisposed to taking the "learning it as a skillset" approach, the training itself probably makes it more difficult for them to TFYS, S! in the long run.

Oh, I wasn't arguing with you. More like taking your point and expanding on it.

[Suu]

True story.


Aside from the ability to scrub myself clean in 5 minutes of cold water, a complete ability to be straight faced in almost any situation, and occasional Republican leanings, I think I turned out alright after 6 years of reserve drill.

[Doktor Howl]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

Incorrect.  In the infantry, it is assumed that a private may wind up in command.  Individual initiative is prized and developed, unlike in the old Soviet style "ride the plan down in flames" approach.

this makes too much sense for me to easily believe that it's a pervasive attitude in such a huge bureaucracy, but I'll take your word for it and be happily surprised.

It isn't managed by a huge bureaucracy...it's managed by individual Bn commanders, per doctrine.

Every once in a while the Pentagon decides it needs bluecoats all standing in neat rows.  These phases don't last very long.

[Cain]

Looks like one of us REALLY pissed off a script-kiddie at some point recently

[Suu]

Oh yeah. 

[Cain]

1337 H4xx0r:  SO FUCKING PISSED. MUST SPAM #DISCORD VIA PMs.

Me: log out, log back in.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Accountability is huge here.  I mean, I work in a jail so it's understandable.  If something goes wrong it could mean an inmate completes suicide or an officer gets assaulted. 

I may be missing something here, but I never quite understood why having a prisoner commit suicide is  big deal. Maybe I'm factoring out the cleanup or something.

[Doktor Howl]

Accountability is huge here.  I mean, I work in a jail so it's understandable.  If something goes wrong it could mean an inmate completes suicide or an officer gets assaulted. 

I may be missing something here, but I never quite understood why having a prisoner commit suicide is  big deal. Maybe I'm factoring out the cleanup or something.

Enki, I hope you get wrongfully imprisoned for something.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I know you do, Dok.

[Thurnez Isa]

because in theory we're suppose to be advanced enough that we have regard for human life. That an every prisoner isn't there cause  he's the Satanic love child of Charlie Manson.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Accountability is huge here.  I mean, I work in a jail so it's understandable.  If something goes wrong it could mean an inmate completes suicide or an officer gets assaulted. 

I may be missing something here, but I never quite understood why having a prisoner commit suicide is  big deal. Maybe I'm factoring out the cleanup or something.

BEEP BOOP I AM A ROBOT WHAT IS HUMAN EMOTION