So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?

[Kai]

I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

THIS.

The Richard Feynman approach.  Have lots of interests...Be YOU, not an ideology/career/religion/etc.

It's also the EO Wilson approach, or the approach of any person who has spanned disciplines, really.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

Caddisflies were really big for me over the last two years. They still are, but now I'm branching out and becoming obsessed with fungus gnats and burying beetles, among other things. All of which makes me more interesting and interested.

And there you have it.  When you let something define you, you stop growing.  And when you stop growing, you drop on your knuckles.

[Vene]

I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."

So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

[Doktor Howl]

I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."

So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".

[Vene]

I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."

So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".

To make sure I'm understanding this properly:
If somebody holds conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, fine. But, if that somebody came to most of their conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, and then adopted the rest of their conservative beliefs because they're conservative, then they've got a problem.

[Doktor Howl]

I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "I'm a conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)", my first response is "Sorry to hear that.  I'm a human."

So, then if that somebody says "I'm conservative (or liberal, or libertarian, etc)," would you respond in the same manner? Basically, do you see fault with using these terms to describe yourself as long as you're not using them to define yourself?

That's the sticky part, isn't it?  If someone has conservative beliefs, that's one thing.  I'm not trying to say that everyone should drop whatever beliefs they hold...I kinda prize individuality.

But if by that statement they mean, "I have bought into conservativism part and parcel", then they may as well say "I'm a conservative".

To make sure I'm understanding this properly:
If somebody holds conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, fine. But, if that somebody came to most of their conservative beliefs because they think they're good values, and then adopted the rest of their conservative beliefs because they're conservative, then they've got a problem.

Precisely.

Because at that point, they've become an ideology, instead of a thinking person.

[Dimocritus]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

[Vene]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

I have one response to this.

lol, 23

[Jasper]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

[President Television]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

I have one response to this.

lol, 23

Zipper! A jumbo banana drippy guy is such a nice Toyota burger.

But yeah, to the OP, and I'm glad this thread is starting to go somewhere.

I've considered quitting Discordianism several times in the past, but I decided not to. Neither was because of anything ideological. It was all because of the people. I thought about leaving because I didn't feel like I really belonged, but I decided to stay because you're all so damned interesting. See, that's what's nice about Discordianism. It doesn't have any sort of rigid definition, so someone who practices Khaos Majhgihadickques and a pseudo-nihilist who just likes to fuck with people can both call themselves Discordians and neither will be wrong. This means there are all sorts of people among us who specialize in all sorts of delightfully obscure areas of knowledge and have a lot to say about just about everything. We don't agree on anything and we don't all know the same things, so when you're in(or even just reading) a conversation with Discordians you're always being challenged to learn new things and figure out the "right" side of an argument.
Ultimately, what separates us from the monkeys is the old mantra: "Think for yourself, schmuck!"

[Dimocritus]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

I was only asking because it seemed you were arguing from the stance that it was a form of ideology.

[Jasper]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

It's not a really useful question, is it?  Discordianism, done right, is too nebulous and mutable to be defined trivially.

Discordianism is more like a sensibility.

I was only asking because it seemed you were arguing from the stance that it was a form of ideology.

Alright, I'll make with the e-prime next time I want to say something... 

No, I was trying to point out that a lot of people treat Discordia as an ideology mistakenly.

[Doktor Howl]

Does anyone actually consider discordianism to be an ideology? That seems like it would be a counter productive stance. Just wondering...

Um, define it.

Yeah, see how that works?

[Jasper]

"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" "

[Doktor Howl]

"So what is Discordianism, really?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean what is it?"

"I'm not following you."

" "

TGRR'S DICTUM:  Ask 8 Discordians what Discordianism is, and you'll get 9 answers.