Freedom isn't Free

[Doktor Howl]

Actually Freeky, what Dok Howl implied is that some children are more equal than others and some deserve to be fried because they are foreign and not our children and ENEMIES.

No, that's not what I said, you lying sack of shit.  Fuck off and die.

PS

" I have, it seems, fallen victim to the truism beast again."

what the hell does that even mean???

None of your fucking business.  The people that was aimed at know what I'm talking about (Nigel & Freeky).  It wasn't aimed at you, and neither will any civil comment I may make in the future.

You're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit, but I'm giving you a once in a lifetime chance to stop fucking talking to me - or about me - from this point forward.

[Adios]

[

All I can say is napalm, Little Boy and Fat Man, yeah and quote a wise man who said
"Protip:  When The Cause leads you toward murdering children, find another cause."


NB John Brown's accomplices [not Brown himself] killed five adult slave trackers pro slavers and then later he and his men attacked the Harper's Ferry Armory. Where are all these dead children? Probably killed by the US army when it was putting down the Natives, because that seems to be where the "nits grow into lice" quote more likely comes from.

This thread is making my teeth itch.

I see, so one justifies the other. Check.

I don't object to your one-liners CB but this one is not self explanatory.

It means you made a completely retarded comparison. I also resent your implication in later posts that we old men are too stupid to 'history'.

[MMIX]

America kills children in the pursuit of its Causes [ yes I realise its not just America that has dirty hands but that was the country which came up in the thread ] so where is the lie?
Except for the John Brown kills children thing?

[Doktor Howl]

America kills children in the pursuit of its Causes [ yes I realise its not just America that has dirty hands but that was the country which came up in the thread ] so where is the lie?
Except for the John Brown kills children thing?

I'm going to be nicer than normal, because several posters have put me in a better mood today, and ask you one more time:

Do you really intend to keep talking to me?  Because the previous conversation is over, and the one that's about to begin will probably please you as much as your putting words in my mouth has pleased me.

Think carefully, and then either respond or don't.

This is a limited time offer, and will not be repeated again.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

America kills children in the pursuit of its Causes [ yes I realise its not just America that has dirty hands but that was the country which came up in the thread ] so where is the lie?
Except for the John Brown kills children thing?

America, as a rule, does not kill children; children get killed in the course of many military operations. The difference is subtle, but real. I realize that as a hot-shot know-it-all with more brains in your pinky than the entire succession of American Presidents combined, you have detected what you believe to be a flaw in the ideological armor of the USA; but your approach to exposing that flaw is all wrong.

In the first place, war sucks. This is a foregone conclusion for most sane people, and it is the reason war is, for all but the most maniacal governments, a last resort. War sucks because people die and shit gets destroyed. The definition of war is violence and death and destruction. To go on about how war sucks for children is to squawk about the obvious: war sucks, period, and no, children are not an exception to this rule. Everybody already knows that.

In the second place, it is a ridiculous proposition to assign blame to America for the nature of war. War has been a shitty deal for a much longer time than America has been around; no degree of ideological progression is going to change the basic nature of war. War is going to be terrible regardless of who engages in it or their motives or how justified they are in warring; it is just a fact of war: it sucks. Have I said that enough yet?

Now, one might try to focus on the fact that in the past 100 years, largely because of the expansion of how terrible war can be, many international agreements governing war have been put in place which have had an actual effect on the number of civilian casualties, including children. War, being what it is, can never follow these regulations cleanly; but it is in large part much more "civil" now than it was 200 years ago. Some of this is also attributable to America.

Of course, war is war, and murder is murder; they are two different things. They may share similar consequences and similar methods; but they are in fact not the same thing. That is why we have (at least) two different words for them. The fact that people die in war is completely irrelevant to the fact that John Brown murdered children. Furthermore, it's a wild tangent from the real direction of the original discussion, which was inevitably headed to the conclusion that you are a schmuck.

Boy, you sure avoided that.

[Doktor Howl]

Vex, you are forgetting that it's in style to blame America for everything, and to say that everything we do is shitty and wrong.  Of course, America DOES have a history of some incredibly horrible shit, but to say that EVERYTHING we do is equally evil and bad - as MMIX did, by conflating WWII and Vietnam - is symptomatic of a generation raised to shout slogans instead of, you know, think (which is why she seemed to be incapable of recognizing my retraction concerning the John Brown truism).

An entire generation with loads of ideology and no brains.  Horrible, horrible.

[Adios]

John Brown didn't kill anybody. The people working for him did it.

OH, NOW I SEE THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

[BabylonHoruv]

Vex, you are forgetting that it's in style to blame America for everything, and to say that everything we do is shitty and wrong.  Of course, America DOES have a history of some incredibly horrible shit, but to say that EVERYTHING we do is equally evil and bad - as MMIX did, by conflating WWII and Vietnam - is symptomatic of a generation raised to shout slogans instead of, you know, think (which is why she seemed to be incapable of recognizing my retraction concerning the John Brown truism).

An entire generation with loads of ideology and no brains.  Horrible, horrible.

We did worse things in WWII than we did in Vietnam.  Rather than napalming small villages we firebombed Dresden. 

The difference, in my opinion, is not what we did, but why we did it.

[Doktor Howl]

The difference, in my opinion, is not what we did, but why we did it.

Yes, that's my whole point.

[East Coast Hustle]

Vex, you are forgetting that it's in style to blame America for everything, and to say that everything we do is shitty and wrong.  Of course, America DOES have a history of some incredibly horrible shit, but to say that EVERYTHING we do is equally evil and bad - as MMIX did, by conflating WWII and Vietnam - is symptomatic of a generation raised to shout slogans instead of, you know, think (which is why she seemed to be incapable of recognizing my retraction concerning the John Brown truism).

An entire generation with loads of ideology and no brains.  Horrible, horrible.

The really funny thing is that if MMIX was right, she wouldn't have a country to be posting from.

We could have just beat the Japanese back from the Pacific and let the Soviets and Germans fight each other until Europe was (even more of) a bloody wasteland while Britain took a demographic hit on the level of, say, Poland. IMO, saving their bacon was one of the most altruistic things we ever did, as a nation.

[Doktor Howl]

Vex, you are forgetting that it's in style to blame America for everything, and to say that everything we do is shitty and wrong.  Of course, America DOES have a history of some incredibly horrible shit, but to say that EVERYTHING we do is equally evil and bad - as MMIX did, by conflating WWII and Vietnam - is symptomatic of a generation raised to shout slogans instead of, you know, think (which is why she seemed to be incapable of recognizing my retraction concerning the John Brown truism).

An entire generation with loads of ideology and no brains.  Horrible, horrible.

The really funny thing is that if MMIX was right, she wouldn't have a country to be posting from.

We could have just beat the Japanese back from the Pacific and let the Soviets and Germans fight each other until Europe was (even more of) a bloody wasteland while Britain took a demographic hit on the level of, say, Poland. IMO, saving their bacon was one of the most altruistic things we ever did, as a nation.

More than anything else, the food we shipped over saved Britain, properly speaking.  There was no serious invasion threat after the Battle of Britain.

But if we hadn't gotten involved, all of continental Europe probably would have been in the Soviet sphere when the shit finally stopped flying.

What rotten bastards we are.

[Adios]

Now boys, let's not be adding thorns to the roses.

[Telarus]

Vex, you are forgetting that it's in style to blame America for everything, and to say that everything we do is shitty and wrong.  Of course, America DOES have a history of some incredibly horrible shit, but to say that EVERYTHING we do is equally evil and bad - as MMIX did, by conflating WWII and Vietnam - is symptomatic of a generation raised to shout slogans instead of, you know, think (which is why she seemed to be incapable of recognizing my retraction concerning the John Brown truism).

An entire generation with loads of ideology and no brains.  Horrible, horrible.

The really funny thing is that if MMIX was right, she wouldn't have a country to be posting from.

We could have just beat the Japanese back from the Pacific and let the Soviets and Germans fight each other until Europe was (even more of) a bloody wasteland while Britain took a demographic hit on the level of, say, Poland. IMO, saving their bacon was one of the most altruistic things we ever did, as a nation.

More than anything else, the food we shipped over saved Britain, properly speaking.  There was no serious invasion threat after the Battle of Britain.

But if we hadn't gotten involved, all of continental Europe probably would have been in the Soviet sphere when the shit finally stopped flying.

What rotten bastards we are.

Not arguing, but I had recently seen a documentary on PBS called "Flying the Secret Sky" where it was revealed that we built war aircraft for Britain (and because the german U-boats were blowing them up during the ship crossings, and some legalese about how Canada was a neutral country that would not allow planes intended for the war to land there), so we then pulled them over the Canadian border via horse-drawn sled, fitted them out with huge gas tanks, and then had civilian pilots fly them over the North Atlantic IN WINTER.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1252484/plotsummary

Really interesting stuff that I was not aware of previously.

[Adios]

On September 10, 1939, the Parliament of Canada declared war against the German Reich, marking the beginning of Canada's participation in the Second World War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_the_Second_World_War

[Adios]

To put it into perspective.

the attack on Pearl Harbor by Japan triggered a declaration of war and the 'official' entry of the USA into the war December 1941

Two years AFTER Canada.