A discordian take on this please...

[BadBeast]

Well, there does seem to be some conflicting information here, and I was apparantly thinking of the Muramachi period, up until 1570 something, before western traders arrived. I must have read stuff by those funny Dutch futurists who were more concerned with other stuff, like keeping any Catholic/Spanish influence from spreading.
Thinking about it, most of what I know about Japan in this time was from reading Shogun. So I may have vocalising somewhat whisperingly from my arse. Although Shogun was supposed to be based on factual events. So please forgive my possibly shaky sources.   

[Doktor Howl]

Well, there does seem to be some conflicting information here, and I was apparantly thinking of the Muramachi period, up until 1570 something, before western traders arrived. I must have read stuff by those funny Dutch futurists who were more concerned with other stuff, like keeping any Catholic/Spanish influence from spreading.
Thinking about it, most of what I know about Japan in this time was from reading Shogun. So I may have vocalising somewhat whisperingly from my arse. Although Shogun was supposed to be based on factual events. So please forgive my possibly shaky sources.   

You said 1600s.

Also, they had carts before that, too.

And what is this shit?  You're not supposed to admit you were mistaken.  You're supposed to go batshit.  Please see Lying Truth's thread for an example.

[the last yatto]

What happened to the conspiracy that we knew Pearl was going to be attacked and let it happen so American citizens wouldn't bitch about going to war with Japan?

Funny thing is there was two chances to not have it be suprise buttsex, first one when we broke their code but didn't do anything except remove VIPs because we didn't want them to know we broke it. Second one was when Japan had their planes a few miles out, they called and warned us, because they didn't want to bomb people just the buildings and planes... but for propaganda reasons we had to ignore that one cause it made putting them into camps easier

[Adios]

What happened to the conspiracy that we knew Pearl was going to be attacked and let it happen so American citizens wouldn't bitch about going to war with Japan?

Funny thing is there was two chances to not have it be suprise buttsex, first one when we broke their code but didn't do anything except remove VIPs because we didn't want them to know we broke it. Second one was when Japan had their planes a few miles out, they called and warned us, because they didn't want to bomb people just the buildings and planes... but for propaganda reasons we had to ignore that one cause it made putting them into camps easier

Citation?

[the last yatto]

And since we are talking about Hawaii, who here knows the year America launched the coo that removed their Queen

[Doktor Howl]

What happened to the conspiracy that we knew Pearl was going to be attacked and let it happen so American citizens wouldn't bitch about going to war with Japan?

Funny thing is there was two chances to not have it be suprise buttsex, first one when we broke their code but didn't do anything except remove VIPs because we didn't want them to know we broke it. Second one was when Japan had their planes a few miles out, they called and warned us, because they didn't want to bomb people just the buildings and planes... but for propaganda reasons we had to ignore that one cause it made putting them into camps easier

Nope.  Their embassador tried to tell us after the attack was launched, but Cordell Hull kept him cooling his heels for two hours.  There was no radio broadcast.

[Doktor Howl]

And since we are talking about Hawaii, who here knows the year America launched the coo that removed their Queen

Nobody was removed.  Hawaii still has a monarch.

We just took the land, is all.

[the last yatto]

Can't remember where I read it first, think it was in high school when I had a magazine sub to paranoid

It has its own wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_debate

[Doktor Howl]

How strange.  There's nothing in there about deliberate attempts to radio American forces.

[Doktor Howl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordell_Hull

On the day of the attack, not long after it had begun, Hull received the news that it was taking place. The Japanese ambassador Kichisaburō Nomura and Japan's special envoy Saburō Kurusu were waiting to see Hull at that moment. Admiral Edwin T. Layton, at the time chief intelligence officer to the commander of the Pacific Fleet, tells the rest of the story:

"Roosevelt advised him not to tell them about the raid but 'to receive them formally and coolly bow them out'.

"After he had glanced at their copy of the fourteen-part message [Japan's declaration that negotiations were at an end], Hull's anger burst forth. 'In all my fifty years of public service,' he told the astonished diplomats, 'I have never seen such a document that was more crowded with infamous falsehood and distortion.' Nomura and Kurusu, who had not been told of the attack, bowed themselves out in an embarrassed fluster. A department official overheard Hull muttering under his breath as the door closed, 'Scoundrels and piss-ants.' "[2]

[Doktor Howl]

So we're both wrong.   

But Hull was the man.

[the last yatto]

No I recall something in the japanense war crime trial records about them bitching they warned us of the attack, it was our fault we didn't pull personal back in time

[Doktor Howl]

No I recall something in the japanense war crime trial records about them bitching they warned us of the attack, it was our fault we didn't pull personal back in time

Okay.  I await your citation.

[Adios]

In The Reluctant Admiral, Hiroyuki Agawa, without a citation, does give a quotation from a reply by Admiral Yamamoto to Ogata Taketora on January 9, 1942, which is strikingly similar to the famous version: "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."

Yamamoto believed that Japan could not win a protracted war with the United States, and moreover seems to have believed that the Pearl Harbor attack had become a blunder — even though he was the person who came up with the idea of a surprise attack. The Reluctant Admiral relates that "Yamamoto alone" (while all his staff members were celebrating) spent the day after Pearl Harbor "sunk in apparent depression." He is also known to have been upset by the bungling of the Foreign Ministry which led to the attack happening while the countries were technically at peace, thus making the incident an unprovoked sneak attack that would certainly enrage the enemy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto%27s_sleeping_giant_quote

Personally I find it completely without merit to even for a moment think that we would sacrifice the amount of naval firepower and trained seamen lost at Pearl Harbor.

[the last yatto]

No I recall something in the japanense war crime trial records about them bitching they warned us of the attack, it was our fault we didn't pull personal back in time

Okay.  I await your citation.

Or it could have been imperial propaganda after what Henny wrote