A discordian take on this please...

[Adios]

Nor did/do we require suicide for being stupid.

Well, okay, so we're not perfect.

In any case, I just love this revisionist history shit, where the bad guys all come from a European-style civilization, and the good guys come from anywhere else.  WWII was obviously our fault, we just didn't understand that Tojo was only trying to have a good time.

Dammit. *cleans screen*

[BadBeast]

Nor did/do we require suicide for being stupid.

Well, okay, so we're not perfect.

In any case, I just love this revisionist history shit, where the bad guys all come from a European-style civilization, and the good guys come from anywhere else.  WWII was obviously our fault, we just didn't understand that Tojo was only trying to have a good time.

Japan was more America's War than Britains though. In fact, thinking about it, the War in Japan was hardly touched on when we were taught about WWII at school. We were taught about the Nazi's, and the War in Europe, but not really much about Japan.

[Doktor Howl]

Nor did/do we require suicide for being stupid.

Well, okay, so we're not perfect.

In any case, I just love this revisionist history shit, where the bad guys all come from a European-style civilization, and the good guys come from anywhere else.  WWII was obviously our fault, we just didn't understand that Tojo was only trying to have a good time.

Japan was more America's War than Britains though. In fact, thinking about it, the War in Japan was hardly touched on when we were taught about WWII at school. We were taught about the Nazi's, and the War in Europe, but not really much about Japan.

That's probably because the British fucked up pretty badly in the East, in WWII.  They couldn't get it through their heads that they needed to be READY for a war with Japan, whom they didn't take seriously.  Also, they were doing the "plan for the last war" thing, and stuffed the pacific full of useless battlecruisers and no air cover.

To be fair, they needed those planes elsewhere.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Savage, Noble Savage, Heathen or Cultured, Enlightened European... they all act like damned monkeys. The biggest difference seems to be how good or bad your PR team is when it comes time to write the history books (assuming that you haven't just killed anyone that disagreed with your history books...).



Humans, soooo funay.

[Adios]

Nor did/do we require suicide for being stupid.

Well, okay, so we're not perfect.

In any case, I just love this revisionist history shit, where the bad guys all come from a European-style civilization, and the good guys come from anywhere else.  WWII was obviously our fault, we just didn't understand that Tojo was only trying to have a good time.

Japan was more America's War than Britains though. In fact, thinking about it, the War in Japan was hardly touched on when we were taught about WWII at school. We were taught about the Nazi's, and the War in Europe, but not really much about Japan.

That's probably because the British fucked up pretty badly in the East, in WWII.  They couldn't get it through their heads that they needed to be READY for a war with Japan, whom they didn't take seriously.  Also, they were doing the "plan for the last war" thing, and stuffed the pacific full of useless battlecruisers and no air cover.

To be fair, they needed those planes elsewhere.

What happened to the conspiracy that we knew Pearl was going to be attacked and let it happen so American citizens wouldn't bitch about going to war with Japan?

[BadBeast]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

edit: In the 1600's.

[Doktor Howl]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

[Freeky]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

"Forgetting about the wheel" = dumb assertion to make.

[BadBeast]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

No, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

[BadBeast]

I'm not even sure if they kept Cattle at all.

[Doktor Howl]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

No, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

I'm pretty sure you're talking out your ass.  The ox cart was the primary method of transporting goods in seventeenth century Japan.

Hit one on google:  http://www.davidmorrisonpike.com/Articles/Kutani.html

In the mid to late seventeenth century it must have been on an even less
traveled road. Because of problems in attaining porcelain ingredients of sufficiently high quality material had to be
brought in by road from other places, shaped into what ever form was desired, transported to the kiln, fired, unloaded
and transported back to the town for decoration, transported back to the kiln for another firing, unloaded from the kiln again for the over-glaze decoration and then fired again in the final firing. Transport was by ox or horse cart.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm not even sure if they kept Cattle at all.

Um.

I'm throwing this one back.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The earliest mention of wheeled vehicles in Japan appears in the ancient chronicle, Nihon Shoki, compiled in 720. The work reveals the existence of an imperial office in charge of vehicles, probably referring to ox-drawn carts used to transport members of the nobility around the city of Kyoto.

Ox-carts often appear on bridal overgarments, or uchikake, perhaps drawing a parallel between the grace and elegance of the bride and the gentility and refinement thought to have characterized the lives of the nobility during the Heian Period a thousand years ago, regarded as a golden age of Japanese culture.

Wheels put on chests during the Edo Period (1600 - 1868) facilitated the movement of household goods in the event of a calamity such as fire. Unfortunately, the popularity of such chests was so great that they clogged the streets during major conflagrations, causing authorities to soon ban them from urban areas. The jinrikisha, or rickshaw as it was called by Westerners, was a highly successful Japanese invention of the 1860s.

[Adios]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

No, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4004899

[Adios]

I wasn't trying to make cultural heroes out of the Japanese, just saying that although they'd forgotten about the wheel, they still had a structured social system, good manners, lots of lovely Silk clothes, and baths. Also a technology system comparable, and in some respects, superior to a lot of Europe's.

Wait.

Are you saying the Japanese didn't use ox carts?

No, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

I'm pretty sure you're talking out your ass.  The ox cart was the primary method of transporting goods in seventeenth century Japan.

Hit one on google:  http://www.davidmorrisonpike.com/Articles/Kutani.html

In the mid to late seventeenth century it must have been on an even less
traveled road. Because of problems in attaining porcelain ingredients of sufficiently high quality material had to be
brought in by road from other places, shaped into what ever form was desired, transported to the kiln, fired, unloaded
and transported back to the town for decoration, transported back to the kiln for another firing, unloaded from the kiln again for the over-glaze decoration and then fired again in the final firing. Transport was by ox or horse cart.

Dutch futurists are funny.

What's wrong with this picture? Well, mainly the fact that the jinrikisha wasn't invented for another two hundred years. Also, Japanese did not use wheeled carts for transporting goods.1. Before that, Japanese traveled mostly by foot and by boat. Samurai travelled by horse, sometimes. Other elites — including samurai, nobles, village headmen, the wealthy — traveled by palanquin (aka litter). Even the transport of commercial goods was mostly by boat and by hand.

http://www.froginawell.net/japan/2009/01/dutch-futurists/

Meanwhile we have all come up with links showing that wheeled carts were indeed used.