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SPLIT: Magidgique Discussion from Intro Thread

Started by Icey, January 31, 2011, 05:04:09 PM

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hooplala

#75
January 31, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Not true.  I can name any number of things that will NEVER happen, no matter how much time is given to the situation.

Okay. Tell me one event that will never happen.

WE WILL NEVER STOP ARGUING ABOUT CHAOS MAGICK ON THIS FUCKING FORUM.

There.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)" — Walt Whitman

Sister Fracture

#76
January 31, 2011, 07:51:31 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 31, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Not true.  I can name any number of things that will NEVER happen, no matter how much time is given to the situation.

Okay. Tell me one event that will never happen.

WE WILL NEVER STOP ARGUING ABOUT CHAOS MAGICK ON THIS FUCKING FORUM.

There.
:lulz:
Roaring Berserkery Bunny of the North End™

A Tucsonite is like a Christian in several important ways.  For one thing, they believe what they say about their god in the most literal, straightfaced way possible.  For another, they both know their god can hear them.  The difference between the two, however, is quite vast in terms of their relationship with their god; Christians believe in His benevolence, but Tucsonites KNOW of The City's spite and hate.

AFK

#77
January 31, 2011, 07:52:57 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:17:48 PM
Yes and no. Chaos magic bends the odds, not breaks them.

Please explain the mechanism behind this.  Causalty is a well-understood principle, and forms the underpinnings of the entire universe as we know it.  If you've found a way to alter that using Chaos Magick, I'd be interested in hearing the mechanics.

Chaos magic believes that will, though intangible, can alter odds indirectly. Now, I'm not saying that this isn't hokey by any means, but it's possible.

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Your problem however, is the idea of confounding variables.  So you "will" a substation to fail.  Eventually it does, 3 years later, you are not taking into account all of the variables that caused this event to happen, completely independent of your "magic".  Weather, perhaps an earthquake, damage from animals, etc., etc,.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

The Good Reverend Roger

#78
January 31, 2011, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Not true.  I can name any number of things that will NEVER happen, no matter how much time is given to the situation.

Okay. Tell me one event that will never happen.

Our sun will never collapse into a black hole.  It hasn't got the mass, nor can it gain sufficient mass to do so.

You seem also to have the mathematical idea of infinity in mind, which is different from the physics concept.  Physical concepts of infinity deal with any asymtotic event, and have real values...IE, the speed of light is an infinite value (186,000 or so MPS), absolute zero (0 Kelvin, when hydrogen freezes), and any other event that reduces entropy to zero.  In the case of time, you have approximately 14 trillion years at most.  By that time, our sun won't exist, and it will never have turned into a black hole.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Icey

#79
January 31, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 31, 2011, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Not true.  I can name any number of things that will NEVER happen, no matter how much time is given to the situation.

Okay. Tell me one event that will never happen.

The Sun NOT dying.  

Possible. Of course, the current laws of physics don't allow it. But, the previous laws of physics didn't allow a lot of things that are commonplace now.

We place too much faith in science. Every time we create a theory that fixes the one problem the last one had, we think it's complete, and hail it as "truth"

Icey

#80
January 31, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
On a side note, I'm not trying to convert anyone or anything of the sort, so if me trying to defend this is bothering you, tell me, and I will gladly shut up.

The Good Reverend Roger

#81
January 31, 2011, 07:56:43 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:54:43 PM

Possible. Of course, the current laws of physics don't allow it. But, the previous laws of physics didn't allow a lot of things that are commonplace now.

There are no previous laws of physics.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

hooplala

#82
January 31, 2011, 07:57:19 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
On a side note, I'm not trying to convert anyone or anything of the sort, so if me trying to defend this is bothering you, tell me, and I will gladly shut up.

I wouldn't worry about it, this topic of conversation is as close as I will ever get to proof of reincarnation.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)" — Walt Whitman

AFK

#83
January 31, 2011, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 31, 2011, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:46:19 PM

Over an infinite timeline, all things will come to pass.


Not true.  I can name any number of things that will NEVER happen, no matter how much time is given to the situation.

Okay. Tell me one event that will never happen.

The Sun NOT dying.  

Possible. Of course, the current laws of physics don't allow it. But, the previous laws of physics didn't allow a lot of things that are commonplace now.

We place too much faith in science. Every time we create a theory that fixes the one problem the last one had, we think it's complete, and hail it as "truth"

You know it's easy to believe in "chaos magic" when you are wielding the mighty weapons of generality and cop outs.  
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

#84
January 31, 2011, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
On a side note, I'm not trying to convert anyone or anything of the sort, so if me trying to defend this is bothering you, tell me, and I will gladly shut up.

Convert us with what?  More utterances of banal generalities? 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Phox

#85
January 31, 2011, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 06:11:35 PM
Science :
Pros - It works.  Will not get you laid with fat, smelly trustafarian college girls.
:spittake:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Icey

#86
January 31, 2011, 08:02:23 PM
Well, chaos magic is based on incompleteness of knowledge. So, when you say, physics says that the sun will die, it's just a matter of time, I'll agree with you from a realistic standpoint. But, from a "possible" standpoint, we don't truly understand what is possible because we don't truly understand the universe. So, by that token, anything is possible.

Don Coyote

#87
January 31, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
OMG IMMA CHARGING MAH SIJILZ :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:

Icey

#88
January 31, 2011, 08:05:55 PM
Quote from: Canis latrans eques on January 31, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
OMG IMMA CHARGING MAH SIJILZ :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap: :fap:

It never ends....

LMNO

#89
January 31, 2011, 08:06:13 PM
Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
Possible. Of course, the current laws of physics don't allow it. But, the previous laws of physics didn't allow a lot of things that are commonplace now.

I'm quite sure you're mistaken.  The physical laws explain and predict the observed behavior of the universe.  The universe didn't change when we discovered new laws.  

QuoteWe place too much faith in science. Every time we create a theory that fixes the one problem the last one had, we think it's complete, and hail it as "truth"

No, "we" don't.   Complete idiots do, however.  Also,

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2011, 07:56:43 PM
There are no previous laws of physics.

Good point.

Quote from: Icey on January 31, 2011, 08:02:23 PM
Well, chaos magic is based on incompleteness of knowledge. So, when you say, physics says that the sun will die, it's just a matter of time, I'll agree with you from a realistic standpoint. But, from a "possible" standpoint, we don't truly understand what is possible because we don't truly understand the universe. So, by that token, anything is possible.

"Semantic Wankery" does not explain what is needed to affect prior causality.  Please try again.
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