Occupy

[Cain]

Those people in the parks aint exactly got anywhere to go, unless they're getting jobs, which wont happen for oh so many reasons.

The real question is, will the government try to take notice of these protests and act accordingly, or will people have to go all "Baader-Meinhof" in order to swing the pendulum back?

I honestly think, in the long-term, that is the situation we're looking at, if something is not resolved.

[Triple Zero]

That's a great summary, Cram.

I especially think this part is very important:

This group reframes the political discussion around corruption/noncorruption instead of liberal/conservative.

I almost think that any Occupy slogan, target, goal, speech or rant that does not focus on corruption, is a danger to run off-track.

Even the very well-intentioned calls for reducing the gap between poor and rich, is a topic people can and will manage to become divided over. Such a division will become a wedge that allows the main stream media and the two-man con to get a foot between the door, play us against eachother, divide and conquer.

But not corruption.

You can't seriously, publicly come out and speak in favour of corruption.

And I think that's the biggest thing we can address. Wikileaks and the like have given us enough pointers to find and pin down this corruption, so it is possible. Except we'll be going up against the banks (see Wikileaks' money problems) as well as most politicians: really I don't think they'll be courting to the OWS movement much as long as there's nobody else to vote for, they just have to get the levels equal, make it a really close 50/50 race, just like always, so nobody dares to vote for anything else, and then they'll be courting the lobbies and corporations again, like always.

Remember, the politicians have been corrupt themselves too, or at least supportive of this corruption, and even if they had no choice, they need to pay. Remember, we had no choice either, and we were made to pay. And by "pay" I just mean to remove them from power and take or burn their wrongfully gained riches. I never really see much use for vengeance. Though we could still eat them, maybe just a leg, or something.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

(Jesus buttfucking Christ, 6 replies all of a sudden.)

You don't often hear about police disobeying their superiors' orders. Seems encouraging.

New York Cops Defy Order to Arrest Hundreds of 'Occupy Albany' Protesters

"Governor 1%" Cuomo can't catch a break--after being protested by Occupy Wall Street last week, this week his own police force is refusing to arrest protesters in his backyard.

http://www.alternet.org/news/152854/new_york_cops_defy_order_to_arrest_hundreds_of_%E2%80%98occupy_albany%E2%80%99_protesters

[BadBeast]

I tend to agree with Cain here. But the problem isn't just one of internal American Policy anymore. And it goes farther than Wall Street. America seems to have far more faith in the Democratic process than we do in Europe. Wall St reforms might just come a little too late to do much good. The Horse has already bolted, and there are other Money Markets waiting in the wings to replace the Dollar as a universally acceptable Blue Chip Currency.

(And no, of course I don't mean the Euro)

[The Wizard Joseph]

I did a lot of interviews at Occupy Milwaukee and experienced the spirit of the event first hand.  The spirit is very strong, and I expect the movement to continue to gain momentum and numbers among it's proponents.  I have also been on the inside of the politically (and often religiously) conservative side of things for a very long time.  There has been a lot of counter propaganda coming from pulpits and water-cooler conversations.  I agree that an "anti-corruption" message focus will be the only really functional platform for the movement to push off from if it wants to maintain cohesion.  There is considerable common ground to be gained if the Occupy Movement can align it's self in a fashion that is parallel to similar sentiment on the right.  It must remain distinctively populist however.  The perception already well pushed on the right tries to mark the Occupy Movement as incoherent hippy-ism or some sort of socialist trick. 

From the interviews and casual un-recorded conversations I had at OMilwaukee I got the distinct impression that the social agendas of "Left & Right" were primarily absent among the Occupiers.  Most of the folks I talked to were there in an anti-corruption mentality.  Some of the organizers passing out leaflets and news rags were very cautious about the way the movement might be seen.  They are right to be concerned about not being taken seriously.  If the perception on the right can be shifted toward the sincerity of the movement and it's desire to enforce change upon shadowy financial and governmental institutions there may be an explosively powerful reaction that has the potential to propel the movement into a more effective second tier.  It may also just make a giant, jolly mess of things.   

In a VERY broad sense it's only been a few short years since the social and informational barriers really started to fall. The technology has truly punched holes in the walls of people's reality tunnels.  Things like Wikileaks and the Occupy Movement's precursors earlier this year have demonstrated the potential for this trend to really rattle, even break open the cages of the people and threaten the control of the established powers.  When the people at the top finally feel their control truly slipping I have no idea what the reaction will be.  I expect it to be either really intense or a dodge of monumental proportions meant to rely on the relative obscurity of the crimes committed.  I hope they try to dodge personally, security through obscurity is a fool's move in the modern world IMO. 

Frankly, I consider it a win condition if they change the conversation about how things get better in America. In the last 10 years, we've gotten more jaded, cynical, and hopeless about things - the important thing IMO is that we get a new narrative about activism. We have to demonstrate that things can actually get better. Whether the OSW protests are visibly "successful" or not, they will set the stage and tone for American activism in the next decade or more.


This may sound optimistic, but I don't think it's entirely unrealistic.

I think this is exactly what's going to happen.  The swing back from this jaded worldview will, perhaps, take a similar amount of time.  The ability of people to just get together en masse in moments has changed the way protesting gets done.  It's changing the mechanics of politics.  The only way to retard the trend would be to somehow pull the plug on the entire internet.  Even the Elite can't afford that.  I hope it does not occur to them that they cannot afford not to.  If the corruption at the top can be fought or (Godis willing) reversed then the whole structure and people high and low will benefit. 

[masquerading]

Someone here will tell me I am crazy and all that shit, If I say that this can get real bad ugly (and not ugly in the sense of protesters getting gassed and beaten ((which in of itself is unspeakable))- more so the kind of ugly that a global revolution can have) right?

Please, there's one of yous out there that can say that this is paranoid nonsense (and why), right, please?

As it stands, the way it's looking we're fucked either way.




The People need to live through this change. When the shit goes down. How many will know how to live without buying things?

[Freeky]

What the hell are you asking?  Please to use real sentence structure, it helps with communication.

[Epimetheus]

Someone here will tell me I am crazy and all that shit, If I say that this can get real bad ugly (and not ugly in the sense of protesters getting gassed and beaten ((which in of itself is unspeakable))- more so the kind of ugly that a global revolution can have) right?

Please, there's one of yous out there that can say that this is paranoid nonsense (and why), right, please?

As it stands, the way it's looking we're fucked either way.




The People need to live through this change. When the shit goes down. How many will know how to live without buying things?

We're fucked.

The conditions of in what orifice we're fucked, in what position, and with or without lube hot sauce, are up in the air.

In other words, a global revolution would only make it more interesting. Not change the outcome, as far as the loudest (and soundest) minds here are concerned.

[Luna]

Well, here's one thing they were chanting about down in Providence:

Millions of student loan borrowers will be eligible to lower their payments and consolidate their loans under a plan President Barack Obama intends to announce Wednesday, the White House said.

Obama will use his executive authority to provide student loan relief in two ways.

First, he will accelerate a measure passed by Congress that reduces the maximum repayment on student loans from 15 percent of discretionary income annually to 10 percent. The White House wants it to go into effect in 2012, instead of 2014. In addition, the White House says the remaining debt would be forgiven after 20 years, instead of 25. About 1.6 million borrowers could be affected.

Second, he will allow borrowers who have loans from both the Family Education Loan Program and a direct loan from the government to consolidate them into one loan. The consolidated loan would be up to a half percentage point less. This could affect 5.8 million more borrowers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45039424/#.Tqff_pua--U

[Cain]

Someone here will tell me I am crazy and all that shit, If I say that this can get real bad ugly (and not ugly in the sense of protesters getting gassed and beaten ((which in of itself is unspeakable))- more so the kind of ugly that a global revolution can have) right?

Please, there's one of yous out there that can say that this is paranoid nonsense (and why), right, please?

As it stands, the way it's looking we're fucked either way.




The People need to live through this change. When the shit goes down. How many will know how to live without buying things?

Why do you think global revolution is likely? 

Also, why is protesters getting the beatdown and gassed "unspeakable"?  Sounds like every major protest in the last few years, over here at least.  Throw in some police agent provocateurs pretending to be anarchists and you've pretty much got the last decade of political protest summed up in a single sentence.

[masquerading]

Someone here will tell me I am crazy and all that shit, If I say that this can get real bad ugly (and not ugly in the sense of protesters getting gassed and beaten ((which in of itself is unspeakable))- more so the kind of ugly that a global revolution can have) right?

Please, there's one of yous out there that can say that this is paranoid nonsense (and why), right, please?

As it stands, the way it's looking we're fucked either way.




The People need to live through this change. When the shit goes down. How many will know how to live without buying things?

Why do you think global revolution is likely? 

Also, why is protesters getting the beatdown and gassed "unspeakable"?  Sounds like every major protest in the last few years, over here at least.  Throw in some police agent provocateurs pretending to be anarchists and you've pretty much got the last decade of political protest summed up in a single sentence.

Global revolution is  (imo) not only likely but already has started. There are many countries around the world atm who are protesting/gathering/marching who are calling it 'occupy'. The 'occupy' is the common factor in all these protests. Also-Since the 'occupy' started in New York, (imo again) there have been more numbers in the usual protests that take place around the world. And I see these increasing as time goes on. And even the ones that are not protesting under the reason for solidarity or what not for 'the occupy movement' are out in more numbers as well. Europe is actually getting ready to march to Athens. The protesters are starting to unite.

When I said protesters being beaten and gassed, I did mean the ones all over the world. The states have not seen anything like what other countries' police forces are doing and have been doing for many years to these people. And it is unspeakable-because (imo) no human should be treated that way. Not when they are not being violent. You are right Cain, it has been going on for a while and it's not right.

So i guess what Im questioning is...If a global revolution is successful, what will the outcome be? Could it lead to a world order? Are we the protesters helping move forward this world order?

[masquerading]

Someone here will tell me I am crazy and all that shit, If I say that this can get real bad ugly (and not ugly in the sense of protesters getting gassed and beaten ((which in of itself is unspeakable))- more so the kind of ugly that a global revolution can have) right?

Please, there's one of yous out there that can say that this is paranoid nonsense (and why), right, please?

As it stands, the way it's looking we're fucked either way.




The People need to live through this change. When the shit goes down. How many will know how to live without buying things?

We're fucked.

The conditions of in what orifice we're fucked, in what position, and with or without lube hot sauce, are up in the air.

In other words, a global revolution would only make it more interesting. Not change the outcome, as far as the loudest (and soundest) minds here are concerned.

Yeah. We are fucked either way. Leading off topic here for a bit...why? Why the hell do we have to be fucked?
Over money and power. I just dont get, but maybe im not suppose to.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Yeah. We are fucked either way. Leading off topic here for a bit...why? Why the hell do we have to be fucked?
Over money and power. I just dont get, but maybe im not suppose to.

Then you don't get humans as a species.

Global revolution is  (imo) not only likely but already has started. There are many countries around the world atm who are protesting/gathering/marching who are calling it 'occupy'. The 'occupy' is the common factor in all these protests. Also-Since the 'occupy' started in New York, (imo again) there have been more numbers in the usual protests that take place around the world. And I see these increasing as time goes on. And even the ones that are not protesting under the reason for solidarity or what not for 'the occupy movement' are out in more numbers as well. Europe is actually getting ready to march to Athens. The protesters are starting to unite.

When I said protesters being beaten and gassed, I did mean the ones all over the world. The states have not seen anything like what other countries' police forces are doing and have been doing for many years to these people. And it is unspeakable-because (imo) no human should be treated that way. Not when they are not being violent. You are right Cain, it has been going on for a while and it's not right.

So i guess what Im questioning is...If a global revolution is successful, what will the outcome be? Could it lead to a world order? Are we the protesters helping move forward this world order?

As to the bolded portion, I think you've got "order" and "disorder" mixed up there.


Allow me to engage in some very vague prophecy:

1) Shit will continue getting crazier.
2) The crazy will reach a crescendo, and the masses will decide to Do Something About It.
3) That Something will be to vote for whomever will be the most charismatic and persuasive schmucks who promise to fix the mess.
4) A bunch of slipshod, heavily compromised, "temporary" government policies will be enacted, sort of helping the situation but not as much as we'd like.
5) Everyone will calm down until The Next Big Fuckup.
6) Rinse, Repeat.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QngE6kKk8Lg

People being tear gassed at Occupy Oakland.

[Jenne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QngE6kKk8Lg

People being tear gassed at Occupy Oakland.

Not surprising.  Cops in Oakland are pretty brutal.  Sometimes for good reason (like when my h.s. cop friend who was shot and killed in a simple home pick-up when they were tracking down a parolee), but oftentimes not so very much.