Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Phox]

Oh man. That would actually be great for omf anywhere. Perfect really since its challenging peoples perceptions.

I think it would work best in a homogenous setting.

Maybe even extend it in some cases and go "i think that dude over there is kinda straight but im not really sure."

If we do that one HERE, then bring your finger tape and/or your running shoes. I'll bring my brass knuckles key chain. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

might be better for if and when you visit beantown.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah i accept that. But i guess once i find out more about that particular person i try and not categorize them by skin color. Like if i hear a black dude speaking creole i am more than happy to stop thinking about him as black and start thinking of him as haitian. I suppose its silly. I dont imagine ill be able to make sense out of my own thoughts on it anytime soon but i am being more mindful about it. It might be an interesting experiment for me to start deliberately noticing white people as white.

OK... so, what's your point? That you're not racist?

Congratulations.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Im not sure what my point is. Like i said im still trying to figure this out. That im not racist was apparent even before this conversation. But youre helping me think about things in a different way.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Im not sure what my point is. Like i said im still trying to figure this out. That im not racist was apparent even before this conversation. But youre helping me think about things in a different way.

Here is a potentially interesting thought for you: When you encounter someone of another race, are you conscious of how her interaction/action/perception of you may be affected by the ever-present consciousness that people of color have of race?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Im not sure what my point is. Like i said im still trying to figure this out. That im not racist was apparent even before this conversation. But youre helping me think about things in a different way.

Here is a potentially interesting thought for you: When you encounter someone of another race, are you conscious of how her interaction/action/perception of you may be affected by the ever-present consciousness that people of color have of race?

It was pretty glaring one time, actually, yes. I was picking up a UHaul van, and the clerk told me that their guy out in the parking lot would show me where this particular van was. So I go outside, look around for a UHaul employee and don't see him. Now there's this one guy talking to this other guy, and they're both black. So I go up to him to ask him where the UHaul employee was. I start off, "Sorry to bother you, but..." "I don't work here." "Ok, but do you know...." "I said I don't work here. Just because I'm black doesn't mean I work here." "Right, but I just wanted to know if..." And then he launched into this little speech about how white people think about black people. He just didn't want to hear what I had to say. At first I was annoyed, then I felt bad that his interactions were so shitty that he assumed I was making assumptions based on his skin color, then I got a little bit of horrormirth at the idea that this guy made an assumption about me making assumptions based on his skin color based on my skin color.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Im not sure what my point is. Like i said im still trying to figure this out. That im not racist was apparent even before this conversation. But youre helping me think about things in a different way.

Here is a potentially interesting thought for you: When you encounter someone of another race, are you conscious of how her interaction/action/perception of you may be affected by the ever-present consciousness that people of color have of race?

It was pretty glaring one time, actually, yes. I was picking up a UHaul van, and the clerk told me that their guy out in the parking lot would show me where this particular van was. So I go outside, look around for a UHaul employee and don't see him. Now there's this one guy talking to this other guy, and they're both black. So I go up to him to ask him where the UHaul employee was. I start off, "Sorry to bother you, but..." "I don't work here." "Ok, but do you know...." "I said I don't work here. Just because I'm black doesn't mean I work here." "Right, but I just wanted to know if..." And then he launched into this little speech about how white people think about black people. He just didn't want to hear what I had to say. At first I was annoyed, then I felt bad that his interactions were so shitty that he assumed I was making assumptions based on his skin color, then I got a little bit of horrormirth at the idea that this guy made an assumption about me making assumptions based on his skin color based on my skin color.

That is a fairly extreme manifestation, but it's probably worth thinking about the fact that black people are usually very conscious of being black around white people, unless they are close friends in which case that awareness tends to be more relaxed (although still on some level present).

Which is one reason the "I don't think about race" default for many white people is met with "Well, isn't that nice for you". Being able to not think about race is, in itself, a matter of white privilege, uncomfortable as that idea may seem.

Thought experiment: every time you see a person of color, try to think about them being conscious of their own position as a member of a non-dominant race in this society. What might they be wondering your assumptions are about them? If they are a woman, are they worried you think they might be a prostitute, or might harass or rape them? If they are a man, are they worried that you might think that they have nefarious intentions?

Try to do this for an entire day. See whether it alters your perspective on the world.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Im not sure what my point is. Like i said im still trying to figure this out. That im not racist was apparent even before this conversation. But youre helping me think about things in a different way.

Here is a potentially interesting thought for you: When you encounter someone of another race, are you conscious of how her interaction/action/perception of you may be affected by the ever-present consciousness that people of color have of race?

It was pretty glaring one time, actually, yes. I was picking up a UHaul van, and the clerk told me that their guy out in the parking lot would show me where this particular van was. So I go outside, look around for a UHaul employee and don't see him. Now there's this one guy talking to this other guy, and they're both black. So I go up to him to ask him where the UHaul employee was. I start off, "Sorry to bother you, but..." "I don't work here." "Ok, but do you know...." "I said I don't work here. Just because I'm black doesn't mean I work here." "Right, but I just wanted to know if..." And then he launched into this little speech about how white people think about black people. He just didn't want to hear what I had to say. At first I was annoyed, then I felt bad that his interactions were so shitty that he assumed I was making assumptions based on his skin color, then I got a little bit of horrormirth at the idea that this guy made an assumption about me making assumptions based on his skin color based on my skin color.

That is a fairly extreme manifestation, but it's probably worth thinking about the fact that black people are usually very conscious of being black around white people, unless they are close friends in which case that awareness tends to be more relaxed (although still on some level present).

Which is one reason the "I don't think about race" default for many white people is met with "Well, isn't that nice for you". Being able to not think about race is, in itself, a matter of white privilege, uncomfortable as that idea may seem.

Thought experiment: every time you see a person of color, try to think about them being conscious of their own position as a member of a non-dominant race in this society. What might they be wondering your assumptions are about them? If they are a woman, are they worried you think they might be a prostitute, or might harass or rape them? If they are a man, are they worried that you might think that they have nefarious intentions?

Try to do this for an entire day. See whether it alters your perspective on the world.

Will do. It might be kinda tricky to think of it as a one on one thing- people in Boston are known to try and avoid talking to people they don't know as much as possible.

This does remind me of another incident that happened a couple of weeks ago.

We were all at the bar (including our drummer which is a rare thing) and through the normal sort of bumping into people, we got a pretty good crowd going. One was Villager's best friend (who's also Discordian), and another was a friend of our drummers who is black. Well, everyone was leaning in and talking because, you know, bars get noisy, and the black guy touches her shoulder, and she bristles for a moment. So he says, "It's ok, I know it's scary cuz I'm black." "Well, I'm blind, so I didn't even know." We all busted out laughing, because if you look at her face for more than 3 seconds that fact is apparent, and that's what this guy was now doing, smiled to himself and went, "well, now I feel like an asshole. I got nothing on that."

[Cain]

I've just realized, on my floor at least, I'm an ethnic minority now.

[BadBeast]

I've just realized, on my floor at least, I'm an ethnic minority now.

[East Coast Hustle]

WORST. CHICKSTACHE. EVER.

[BadBeast]

WORST. CHICKSTACHE. EVER.

Yeah, that wouldn't even make a good man 'tach. It looks more like a dirty sanchez than proper facial hair.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The girl at the top looks deeply uncomfortable.

Probably because she knows that the other two children are possessed.

[BadBeast]

The one on the right certainly is.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I've just realized, on my floor at least, I'm an ethnic minority now.

There's really nothing like posting a racist gif to kill an otherwise reasonable conversation about race.