Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black, the other bit being cuban. I speak in such a manner that I get frequently called white. This was a major problem for me growing up. After elementary school everyone started dividing up into their little groups. I would hang out with people who were 'geeks' as well as old friends from elementary. As we grew up groups became more stratified. Race became a major part of the identities of many of my peers. I really didn't get it and I guess I still don't. Throughout high school and into my college years people would call me 'white' and an 'oreo'. When I questioned the justification for these claims no one had any substantial warrants. No one would admit what an openly racist and idiotic thing that was to say. One of the other black kids I hung around with when I was a freshman called me white once. I was at the top of the class and he was hovering around a C+. He said I was white because I talked like 'them' and acted like 'them'. It was obvious he was under the assumption that if one does not meet conventional stereotypes about black culture and black people, then that person cannot be called 'authentically black', whatever the hell that means. Many white persons I have known have said the same things. Of course I'm not black because I like progressive rock. I'm not black because I'm on the chess team. I'm not black because I try to use grammar all the time. The last time this happened I barely held my self back from choking this person while yelling at him about race relations. I have much more to say on this topic but I'll leave it at this: this kind of internalization of anti-intellectualism and negative racial stereotypes ,prevalent in black culture today especially, is destructive to us all.
______________________
When I treat people I always try to treat them according to their actions, rather than those things they have no control over. You can't help that you are a pale dullard( white person) and it would be unfair for me to yell at you for the crappiness of your DNA.
______________________
Racial profiling really sucks. Mostly because it leads us to internalize narratives about different races. A prominent example is the racial profiling of those with an ethnic background in the middle-east in America. I've heard people say,"Oh I'm not racist but, If its only one race of people doing that thing then its only fair to only harass them. Anyone who bothered to think would see the inherent stupidity of such an opinion but it is clear that if one really wanted to arbitrarily restrict the freedoms of certain people based on the color of their skin, the first group on the list would be White people.
______________________
Lastly is racial realism which really chaps my hide. People who say, "Oh I'm not being racist, Its just that some races are genetically better than others. We should be separated because of that". This type of statement is blantantly false, as anyone who has studied genetics will tell you, race is culture based, not based on genetics, but also ignorant of the way the world actually functions.

A friend that I mentioned earlier in this thread ("You're the colored people because you change colors") and you would have some things in common. He despised the stereotype. He'd rail against it. And he was to a degree shunned for it, within his own community. He was the black kid in the ghetto who played D&D and listened to Heavy Metal and Doom Metal. My first Type O Negative concert was with him. Of course I was going to take him, he was my best friend at the time and he fucking loved Type O. When I got my license and was able to drive him home from work, he insisted on cranking the Metal up just to let everyone know that HE was home (we were also coworkers for a time-got him the job). And he'd get shit for it. "You're a white guy trapped in a black man's body." Because he liked what he liked. I remember him saying once, "Just because I'm black and I choose to speak proper English doesn't mean I'm any less black. It just means I just don't want to be fucking stupid."

In retrospect, he made a lot of references to being black, and I never really thought of it other than, ok, that's just Vinny emphasizing a point. (Once in Salem, "I'm a Witch AND a Negro! You don't see that every day!" -Vinny when we Bostonians were heckling tour guides for shits and giggles). But then again, after this thread... "I'm a Witch AND an Irishman! You see that..... frequently in these parts....."

I dunno, I'm still trying to sort this all out. I'm also trying to figure out if people I know well who aren't white I recognize as just people, or if I see them as non-white. And why should familiarity matter? So what if I don't see that Vinny's black? What about that guy on the bus? And now I'm observing it, and are my observations contaminated because I know what I'm doing?

This guy kind of sounds needlessly confrontational. I feel more that internalization of idiotic stereotypes created by an industry that cares nothing for these people is destroying black people as a whole. I care less that I have to deal with it personally, because I can. It's others I'm worried about.

I used to make it a habit to just say really racist things about white people when I was around a bunch of them to see whether anyone would ever call me a racist. Maybe one person ever did in the years I spent doing it. The hypocrisy is astounding in a culture such as this.

As for if I really talked about my race all the time? I'm not really sure. Aside from those times I was being racist on purpose I wouldn't really think much of it.

This whole race perception issue is really whether we can bring ourselves to overcome instinctual racism and in-group favoring. I would say that perhaps your observation isn't contaminated. The fact that you are at least trying to correct it is sufficient at the moment.

[LMNO]

Amusingly relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzprLDmdRlc

[AFK]

A friend that I mentioned earlier in this thread ("You're the colored people because you change colors") and you would have some things in common. He despised the stereotype. He'd rail against it. And he was to a degree shunned for it, within his own community. He was the black kid in the ghetto who played D&D and listened to Heavy Metal and Doom Metal. My first Type O Negative concert was with him. Of course I was going to take him, he was my best friend at the time and he fucking loved Type O. When I got my license and was able to drive him home from work, he insisted on cranking the Metal up just to let everyone know that HE was home (we were also coworkers for a time-got him the job). And he'd get shit for it. "You're a white guy trapped in a black man's body." Because he liked what he liked. I remember him saying once, "Just because I'm black and I choose to speak proper English doesn't mean I'm any less black. It just means I just don't want to be fucking stupid."

That's too bad he gets that kind of flak.  I know the metal scene is, by and large, a fairly white scene but, and I know you know this, there have been some pretty influential black musicians in the scene as well.  Vernon Reid and Rocky George are a couple of amazing black metal guitarists that come to mind, not to mention the huge influence Jimi Hendrix had on metal. 

I wager it is probably even more difficult for a black person who is into country music.  I mean, not only is it perceived as "white people" music, but it has that extra baggage associated with it because of its roots in Southern US.  Although, there have also been some neo-nazi/white power sects within the metal community as well. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black, the other bit being cuban. I speak in such a manner that I get frequently called white. This was a major problem for me growing up. After elementary school everyone started dividing up into their little groups. I would hang out with people who were 'geeks' as well as old friends from elementary. As we grew up groups became more stratified. Race became a major part of the identities of many of my peers. I really didn't get it and I guess I still don't. Throughout high school and into my college years people would call me 'white' and an 'oreo'. When I questioned the justification for these claims no one had any substantial warrants. No one would admit what an openly racist and idiotic thing that was to say. One of the other black kids I hung around with when I was a freshman called me white once. I was at the top of the class and he was hovering around a C+. He said I was white because I talked like 'them' and acted like 'them'. It was obvious he was under the assumption that if one does not meet conventional stereotypes about black culture and black people, then that person cannot be called 'authentically black', whatever the hell that means. Many white persons I have known have said the same things. Of course I'm not black because I like progressive rock. I'm not black because I'm on the chess team. I'm not black because I try to use grammar all the time. The last time this happened I barely held my self back from choking this person while yelling at him about race relations. I have much more to say on this topic but I'll leave it at this: this kind of internalization of anti-intellectualism and negative racial stereotypes ,prevalent in black culture today especially, is destructive to us all.
______________________
When I treat people I always try to treat them according to their actions, rather than those things they have no control over. You can't help that you are a pale dullard( white person) and it would be unfair for me to yell at you for the crappiness of your DNA.
______________________
Racial profiling really sucks. Mostly because it leads us to internalize narratives about different races. A prominent example is the racial profiling of those with an ethnic background in the middle-east in America. I've heard people say,"Oh I'm not racist but, If its only one race of people doing that thing then its only fair to only harass them. Anyone who bothered to think would see the inherent stupidity of such an opinion but it is clear that if one really wanted to arbitrarily restrict the freedoms of certain people based on the color of their skin, the first group on the list would be White people.
______________________
Lastly is racial realism which really chaps my hide. People who say, "Oh I'm not being racist, Its just that some races are genetically better than others. We should be separated because of that". This type of statement is blantantly false, as anyone who has studied genetics will tell you, race is culture based, not based on genetics, but also ignorant of the way the world actually functions.

All of the things you speak of here are issues that completely chap my hide. I really loathe the widespread and completely false idea that being educated is a "white" quality.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Amusingly relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzprLDmdRlc

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black, the other bit being cuban. I speak in such a manner that I get frequently called white. This was a major problem for me growing up. After elementary school everyone started dividing up into their little groups. I would hang out with people who were 'geeks' as well as old friends from elementary. As we grew up groups became more stratified. Race became a major part of the identities of many of my peers. I really didn't get it and I guess I still don't. Throughout high school and into my college years people would call me 'white' and an 'oreo'. When I questioned the justification for these claims no one had any substantial warrants. No one would admit what an openly racist and idiotic thing that was to say. One of the other black kids I hung around with when I was a freshman called me white once. I was at the top of the class and he was hovering around a C+. He said I was white because I talked like 'them' and acted like 'them'. It was obvious he was under the assumption that if one does not meet conventional stereotypes about black culture and black people, then that person cannot be called 'authentically black', whatever the hell that means. Many white persons I have known have said the same things. Of course I'm not black because I like progressive rock. I'm not black because I'm on the chess team. I'm not black because I try to use grammar all the time. The last time this happened I barely held my self back from choking this person while yelling at him about race relations. I have much more to say on this topic but I'll leave it at this: this kind of internalization of anti-intellectualism and negative racial stereotypes ,prevalent in black culture today especially, is destructive to us all.
______________________
When I treat people I always try to treat them according to their actions, rather than those things they have no control over. You can't help that you are a pale dullard( white person) and it would be unfair for me to yell at you for the crappiness of your DNA.
______________________
Racial profiling really sucks. Mostly because it leads us to internalize narratives about different races. A prominent example is the racial profiling of those with an ethnic background in the middle-east in America. I've heard people say,"Oh I'm not racist but, If its only one race of people doing that thing then its only fair to only harass them. Anyone who bothered to think would see the inherent stupidity of such an opinion but it is clear that if one really wanted to arbitrarily restrict the freedoms of certain people based on the color of their skin, the first group on the list would be White people.
______________________
Lastly is racial realism which really chaps my hide. People who say, "Oh I'm not being racist, Its just that some races are genetically better than others. We should be separated because of that". This type of statement is blantantly false, as anyone who has studied genetics will tell you, race is culture based, not based on genetics, but also ignorant of the way the world actually functions.

All of the things you speak of here are issues that completely chap my hide. I really loathe the widespread and completely false idea that being educated is a "white" quality.

...I'm not too keen on the thought that anything outside of "Standard English" is indicative of lack of intellect, either.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

He could be 78.125% if he had three black grandparents and one 1/8 black grandparent.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

He could be 78.125% if he had three black grandparents and one 1/8 black grandparent.

How many generations would that take?  I mean, to get to that "recipe"?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black, the other bit being cuban. I speak in such a manner that I get frequently called white. This was a major problem for me growing up. After elementary school everyone started dividing up into their little groups. I would hang out with people who were 'geeks' as well as old friends from elementary. As we grew up groups became more stratified. Race became a major part of the identities of many of my peers. I really didn't get it and I guess I still don't. Throughout high school and into my college years people would call me 'white' and an 'oreo'. When I questioned the justification for these claims no one had any substantial warrants. No one would admit what an openly racist and idiotic thing that was to say. One of the other black kids I hung around with when I was a freshman called me white once. I was at the top of the class and he was hovering around a C+. He said I was white because I talked like 'them' and acted like 'them'. It was obvious he was under the assumption that if one does not meet conventional stereotypes about black culture and black people, then that person cannot be called 'authentically black', whatever the hell that means. Many white persons I have known have said the same things. Of course I'm not black because I like progressive rock. I'm not black because I'm on the chess team. I'm not black because I try to use grammar all the time. The last time this happened I barely held my self back from choking this person while yelling at him about race relations. I have much more to say on this topic but I'll leave it at this: this kind of internalization of anti-intellectualism and negative racial stereotypes ,prevalent in black culture today especially, is destructive to us all.
______________________
When I treat people I always try to treat them according to their actions, rather than those things they have no control over. You can't help that you are a pale dullard( white person) and it would be unfair for me to yell at you for the crappiness of your DNA.
______________________
Racial profiling really sucks. Mostly because it leads us to internalize narratives about different races. A prominent example is the racial profiling of those with an ethnic background in the middle-east in America. I've heard people say,"Oh I'm not racist but, If its only one race of people doing that thing then its only fair to only harass them. Anyone who bothered to think would see the inherent stupidity of such an opinion but it is clear that if one really wanted to arbitrarily restrict the freedoms of certain people based on the color of their skin, the first group on the list would be White people.
______________________
Lastly is racial realism which really chaps my hide. People who say, "Oh I'm not being racist, Its just that some races are genetically better than others. We should be separated because of that". This type of statement is blantantly false, as anyone who has studied genetics will tell you, race is culture based, not based on genetics, but also ignorant of the way the world actually functions.

All of the things you speak of here are issues that completely chap my hide. I really loathe the widespread and completely false idea that being educated is a "white" quality.

...I'm not too keen on the thought that anything outside of "Standard English" is indicative of lack of intellect, either.

Yep, that's a pretty damn insular and provincial assumption.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

He could be 78.125% if he had three black grandparents and one 1/8 black grandparent.

How many generations would that take?  I mean, to get to that "recipe"?

Six. It actually doesn't take long at all... something the BIA was keeping in mind when it held that children can only count the blood quantum of ONE of their tribes toward their tribal membership qualifications. In just a few generations of tribal intermarriage (common before colonization), there were (and are) full-blood indians who lacked enough of a single tribe blood quantum to be legally indian by BIA standards. Genocide through attrition.

I'm an eighth black, or 12.5%; my great-grandmother was straight up black, and my grandchildren will be only 3.125% black.

Basically, if his grandma was an octoroon or high-yellow, or just referred to as a "yellow", and she married a black man and had a daughter who married a black man, the resulting child would be 78.125% black.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

He could be 78.125% if he had three black grandparents and one 1/8 black grandparent.

How many generations would that take?  I mean, to get to that "recipe"?

Six. It actually doesn't take long at all... something the BIA was keeping in mind when it held that children can only count the blood quantum of ONE of their tribes toward their tribal membership qualifications. In just a few generations of tribal intermarriage (common before colonization), there were (and are) full-blood indians who lacked enough of a single tribe blood quantum to be legally indian by BIA standards. Genocide through attrition.

I'm an eighth black, or 12.5%; my great-grandmother was straight up black, and my grandchildren will be only 3.125% black.

Basically, if his grandma was an octoroon or high-yellow, or just referred to as a "yellow", and she married a black man and had a daughter who married a black man, the resulting child would be 78.125% black.

My sarcasm...Slain by an inconvenient fact.   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black,

How could you be, say, 78% Black?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

He could be 78.125% if he had three black grandparents and one 1/8 black grandparent.

How many generations would that take?  I mean, to get to that "recipe"?

Six. It actually doesn't take long at all... something the BIA was keeping in mind when it held that children can only count the blood quantum of ONE of their tribes toward their tribal membership qualifications. In just a few generations of tribal intermarriage (common before colonization), there were (and are) full-blood indians who lacked enough of a single tribe blood quantum to be legally indian by BIA standards. Genocide through attrition.

I'm an eighth black, or 12.5%; my great-grandmother was straight up black, and my grandchildren will be only 3.125% black.

Basically, if his grandma was an octoroon or high-yellow, or just referred to as a "yellow", and she married a black man and had a daughter who married a black man, the resulting child would be 78.125% black.

My sarcasm...Slain by an inconvenient fact.   

I saw it as a challenge.

Also as a way to procrastinate doing homework while I thought it through.

[Cain]

Black people cannot use chopsticks.  Any time you see a black person using chopsticks, you must congratulate them on how you don't really see them as black and for transcending their hetitage.

Also, Asian people love golf.

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

Ethnically I'm at least 75% black, the other bit being cuban. I speak in such a manner that I get frequently called white. This was a major problem for me growing up. After elementary school everyone started dividing up into their little groups. I would hang out with people who were 'geeks' as well as old friends from elementary. As we grew up groups became more stratified. Race became a major part of the identities of many of my peers. I really didn't get it and I guess I still don't. Throughout high school and into my college years people would call me 'white' and an 'oreo'. When I questioned the justification for these claims no one had any substantial warrants. No one would admit what an openly racist and idiotic thing that was to say. One of the other black kids I hung around with when I was a freshman called me white once. I was at the top of the class and he was hovering around a C+. He said I was white because I talked like 'them' and acted like 'them'. It was obvious he was under the assumption that if one does not meet conventional stereotypes about black culture and black people, then that person cannot be called 'authentically black', whatever the hell that means. Many white persons I have known have said the same things. Of course I'm not black because I like progressive rock. I'm not black because I'm on the chess team. I'm not black because I try to use grammar all the time. The last time this happened I barely held my self back from choking this person while yelling at him about race relations. I have much more to say on this topic but I'll leave it at this: this kind of internalization of anti-intellectualism and negative racial stereotypes ,prevalent in black culture today especially, is destructive to us all.
______________________
When I treat people I always try to treat them according to their actions, rather than those things they have no control over. You can't help that you are a pale dullard( white person) and it would be unfair for me to yell at you for the crappiness of your DNA.
______________________
Racial profiling really sucks. Mostly because it leads us to internalize narratives about different races. A prominent example is the racial profiling of those with an ethnic background in the middle-east in America. I've heard people say,"Oh I'm not racist but, If its only one race of people doing that thing then its only fair to only harass them. Anyone who bothered to think would see the inherent stupidity of such an opinion but it is clear that if one really wanted to arbitrarily restrict the freedoms of certain people based on the color of their skin, the first group on the list would be White people.
______________________
Lastly is racial realism which really chaps my hide. People who say, "Oh I'm not being racist, Its just that some races are genetically better than others. We should be separated because of that". This type of statement is blantantly false, as anyone who has studied genetics will tell you, race is culture based, not based on genetics, but also ignorant of the way the world actually functions.

All of the things you speak of here are issues that completely chap my hide. I really loathe the widespread and completely false idea that being educated is a "white" quality.

...I'm not too keen on the thought that anything outside of "Standard English" is indicative of lack of intellect, either.

Was it the part where I mentioned grammar? I didn't say anyone was stupid because they didn't use "standard english". They said I was white because I did use "standard English", which is entirely different.