Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Don Coyote]

I love that.

[Don Coyote]

Question: Is Robert Downey Jr in blackface in Tropic Thunder racist, or is it satire on the entire premiss of blackface by behaving a highly stereotypical behavior and being called out on it by the black rap artist?

In short, racist joke or joke using race?

I'm leaning towards satire.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Question: Is Robert Downey Jr in blackface in Tropic Thunder racist, or is it satire on the entire premiss of blackface by behaving a highly stereotypical behavior and being called out on it by the black rap artist?

In short, racist joke or joke using race?

I'm leaning towards satire.

It seemed like a pretty clear cut satire to me.

[Faust]

Question: Is Robert Downey Jr in blackface in Tropic Thunder racist, or is it satire on the entire premiss of blackface by behaving a highly stereotypical behavior and being called out on it by the black rap artist?

In short, racist joke or joke using race?

I'm leaning towards satire.

It was to show how disconnected from reality hollywood is. In his mind he was a method actor learning what it is to be black, to any outside observer all they see is a horrible racial stereotype.

[Placid Dingo]

As far as texts go the is it racist question shits me a bit because I feel like to cut works into hey that's racist and no that's ok is embracing a bit of a false dichotomy.

The question, does this promote racist values, seems useful.

So does 'what kinds of interpretations could be made of this work beyond what is made explicit.

To look at something with the intention of labelling it one way or the other doesn't seem so useful.



Anyway. That's not why I came back to this thread. I though you all might like this; Why I'm a black male feminist.- http://www.theroot.com/views/why-i-am-male-feminist?page=0,0

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As far as texts go the is it racist question shits me a bit because I feel like to cut works into hey that's racist and no that's ok is embracing a bit of a false dichotomy.

The question, does this promote racist values, seems useful.

So does 'what kinds of interpretations could be made of this work beyond what is made explicit.

To look at something with the intention of labelling it one way or the other doesn't seem so useful.



Anyway. That's not why I came back to this thread. I though you all might like this; Why I'm a black male feminist.- http://www.theroot.com/views/why-i-am-male-feminist?page=0,0

I agree... "is it racist?" is far too cut and dried. Many people have condemned Twain's writings for "being racist" when in fact it was an accurate description of racism in the time when it was written, by an author who condemned the racist system (and I felt, even reading Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn as a child, that the description alone conveyed a condemnation-- there is, for example, a vivid description of alienation and tragedy in Injun Joe, despite his existence as a villain in the story). Many works can contain racist elements or reflect racist attitudes without being racist tracts.

I will look at that link.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That was an incredibly moving article for me. Thanks for posting it!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So the other night I discovered that not only does my ex still considers me (and apparently, most of the black people in the Pacific NW) "culturally white", but he has no idea that our daughter identifies as African American.

I don't have the heart to tell her that she's not legally black.

[navkat]

As far as texts go the is it racist question shits me a bit because I feel like to cut works into hey that's racist and no that's ok is embracing a bit of a false dichotomy.

The question, does this promote racist values, seems useful.

So does 'what kinds of interpretations could be made of this work beyond what is made explicit.

To look at something with the intention of labelling it one way or the other doesn't seem so useful.



Anyway. That's not why I came back to this thread. I though you all might like this; Why I'm a black male feminist.- http://www.theroot.com/views/why-i-am-male-feminist?page=0,0

I agree... "is it racist?" is far too cut and dried. Many people have condemned Twain's writings for "being racist" when in fact it was an accurate description of racism in the time when it was written, by an author who condemned the racist system (and I felt, even reading Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn as a child, that the description alone conveyed a condemnation-- there is, for example, a vivid description of alienation and tragedy in Injun Joe, despite his existence as a villain in the story). Many works can contain racist elements or reflect racist attitudes without being racist tracts.

I will look at that link.

Absolutely. Clemens was notoriously sickened by racism and it was, in fact, a matter at the very heart of his struggle with cynicism about his fellow man until his death.

I believe it is absolutely necessary for people to feel comfortable speaking their mind and calling things exactly as they see them. Far too much injustice and invalidation occurs because of our need to sugar-coat history when sometimes, just saying the ugly has the power to disinfect the wound.

[navkat]

In fact, we all need to get more comfortable saying "I don't understand. I think ___ about this. What am I missing?" And people need to start being comfortable with listening and responding to people's perception, knowledge and ownership of their ignorance (No, ignorance isn't wrong! Willful ignorance is wrong!) without the knee-jerk screams of "Nazi!"

And in fact, I tend to think people who are first to jump on someone's honest mistakes with an aggro reaction just might have their own issues to examine. I've seen many a white person scream "That's racist!"  and act all offended/refuse to calm the fuck down when the black people in the room weren't even that upset by the remark that sparked the outburst. Fucking up and talking about is is how we learn. Beating people with a stick for making a mistake just encourages them try to hide their mistakes.

[East Coast Hustle]

So the other night I discovered that not only does my ex still considers me (and apparently, most of the black people in the Pacific NW) "culturally white", but he has no idea that our daughter identifies as African American.

I don't have the heart to tell her that she's not legally black.

The phrase "culturally white" is so fucking stupid it makes my eye twitch.

but fuck it, from now on I'm culturally black.

[East Coast Hustle]

Also, I'd like to see him go talk that shit on the corner of 19th and Yesler.

[LMNO]

So the other night I discovered that not only does my ex still considers me (and apparently, most of the black people in the Pacific NW) "culturally white", but he has no idea that our daughter identifies as African American.

I don't have the heart to tell her that she's not legally black.

The phrase "culturally white" is so fucking stupid it makes my eye twitch.

but fuck it, from now on I'm culturally black.

Actually, I could probably believe that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So the other night I discovered that not only does my ex still considers me (and apparently, most of the black people in the Pacific NW) "culturally white", but he has no idea that our daughter identifies as African American.

I don't have the heart to tell her that she's not legally black.

The phrase "culturally white" is so fucking stupid it makes my eye twitch.

but fuck it, from now on I'm culturally black.

Oh god. I know. It's... fucking horrible.

I tried to calmly and reasonably explain why that's such an epically fucked-up thing to say, and he JUST WOULDN'T GET IT.

When I went in to pay, I actually had a guy tell me that I did a great job of "handling that asshole" and that he wouldn't have been able to resist the urge to punch him in the face.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So the other night I discovered that not only does my ex still considers me (and apparently, most of the black people in the Pacific NW) "culturally white", but he has no idea that our daughter identifies as African American.

I don't have the heart to tell her that she's not legally black.

The phrase "culturally white" is so fucking stupid it makes my eye twitch.

but fuck it, from now on I'm culturally black.

Actually, I could probably believe that.

Yeah, I assumed that ECH was black or native for the longest time. Even after I met him, because appearances can be deceiving.

He is clearly culturally black.

So, possibly the most offensive part of the evening is when I said "You see, when you state that educated and articulate black people are culturally white, you are designating education and articulation as necessarily white qualities" and my ex said "YES, that's exactly what I mean!"

I

can't

even