The Parlor Problem

[The Good Reverend Roger]

No.

I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?

Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.

So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?

I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. 
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.

"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.

I don't see myself as unique in this.

I don't know about that.

I was a 900-girl for quite some time. That job took it out of me... I found it depressing after a while. Not because of feeling subjugated or used, but because my customers were so, so sad. They often made me cry, and almost always out of sympathy. So yes, I can say for experience that if you take the human trafficking and the stigma out of sex work, there is a large space for human compassion. A man who goes to a parlor for human touch and sexual release might be a dirtbag, but he might equally be a lonely human being starved for touch and sex, two elements that humans need to be happy. The world would be a better place if we made it OK and respectable to compassionately administer touch, including sexual touch, to lonely people.

Okay, but I'm not doing it.  I've seen johns up close.  NOT DOING IT.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. 

That's pretty dehumanizing.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Of course, I'm not the most compassionate guy in the world.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

OK, why would anybody making decent money doing massage, who hasn't gotten themselves into financial hot water, suddenly decide they want to include hand jobs for everybody if not for the extra money? How can there NOT be some kind of duress?

There are people, who are few and far between because this society does not make this an easily attainable place to be, who do sex therapy work. These are not prostitutes, although they are often called that; they are skilled and educated professionals who believe that there are men and women who need their skills and their services. This comes from a place of compassion and service, and not from a place of subjugation or desperation; just as there are tens of thousands of people who work for twelve dollars an hour doing social work, some of the most horrendously depressing work there is, with their $70,000 in student loan debt to earn an MSW.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

No.

I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?

Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.

So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?

I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. 
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.

"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.

I don't see myself as unique in this.

I don't know about that.

I was a 900-girl for quite some time. That job took it out of me... I found it depressing after a while. Not because of feeling subjugated or used, but because my customers were so, so sad. They often made me cry, and almost always out of sympathy. So yes, I can say for experience that if you take the human trafficking and the stigma out of sex work, there is a large space for human compassion. A man who goes to a parlor for human touch and sexual release might be a dirtbag, but he might equally be a lonely human being starved for touch and sex, two elements that humans need to be happy. The world would be a better place if we made it OK and respectable to compassionately administer touch, including sexual touch, to lonely people.

That's a beautiful point.

If you has some kind of Kwan Yin level of compassion, maybe you could pull it off. Maybe you're there. I'm not.

Most of us aren't.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

I think that in our current society, it is essentially impossible. I also think that the reason for that has everything to do with power dynamics, and that if, in some alternate reality, power dynamics were such that the sex worker had all the power, it would be completely possible, because then the sex worker would not be dehumanized or commodified, any more than a therapist is dehumanized or commodified.

That is just not the way it works, in the here and now reality we live in. It doesn't mean it's not possible, just that it's not possible in our current reality.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. 

That's pretty dehumanizing.

So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different.  Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own.  It's the whole touching and being touched thing.  A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.

A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.

Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".

There are always going to be people like that.  It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.

Not buying it.

Then how is massaging people not like hooking?

If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.

If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.

I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. 

That's pretty dehumanizing.

So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/

Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different.  Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own.  It's the whole touching and being touched thing.  A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.

A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.

Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".

There are always going to be people like that.  It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.

Not buying it.

Then how is massaging people not like hooking?

If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.

If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.

I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.

I am.

If I have to put my hand on a dick, and I am not a doctor, and I don't like/love/feel attracted to the person on the other end of the dick, but I need the money, it's hooking.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different.  Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own.  It's the whole touching and being touched thing.  A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.

A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.

Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".

There are always going to be people like that.  It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.

Not buying it.

Then how is massaging people not like hooking?

If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.

If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.

I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.

I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth.  I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple.  It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. 

That's pretty dehumanizing.

So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/

Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?

Not at all.

I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.

I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different.  Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own.  It's the whole touching and being touched thing.  A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.

A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.

Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".

There are always going to be people like that.  It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.

Not buying it.

Then how is massaging people not like hooking?

If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.

If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.

I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.

I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth.  I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple.  It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.

Seth? Don't think I've heard this story.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.

I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.

Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different.  Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own.  It's the whole touching and being touched thing.  A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.

A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.

Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".

There are always going to be people like that.  It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.

Not buying it.

Then how is massaging people not like hooking?

If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.

If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.

I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.

I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth.  I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple.  It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.

Seth? Don't think I've heard this story.

That's because I've never gotten around to mailing about a hundred things, including a copy of MSY1 to you.

[Freeky]

Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. 

That's pretty dehumanizing.

So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/

Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?

Not at all.

I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.

I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.

But are you the kind of person who would go into giving a massage at all?  Or working with people and their bodies at all?  You said you wouldn't, right?  Well, that is your prerogative.