Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

What disgusts me the most about his statement is how he attributes his resilience to his character, and implies that anyone re-traumatized by graphic rape stories is an inferior person. Not because their personality, life history, access to mental health care, and particular details of their trauma (such as how recently it may have happened) may all be extremely different.

That's one venomous, self-serving point of view.

[Faust]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

I don't think people should harden up, but I do think that adding disclaimers is dismissive or belittling of what I'd a serious subject that does conjour up feelings. This is discussion forum by definition there are going to be topics that are hard to talk about and I don't think they should be segregated or treated differently.

I wasn't even going to mention the "it happened to me" but my personal experience was that no one would believe what was happening until the person was caught and even then no one would talk about what happened, because we're catholic and we don't dare talk about this shit in public.

YOu know what? Yes it's a fucking trigger issue for me  but it's not something I'm going to shy away from
 

[Faust]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

What disgusts me the most about his statement is how he attributes his resilience to his character, and implies that anyone re-traumatized by graphic rape stories is an inferior person. Not because their personality, life history, access to mental health care, and particular details of their trauma (such as how recently it may have happened) may all be extremely different.

That's one venomous, self-serving point of view.

Go fuck yourself.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

I don't think people should harden up, but I do think that adding disclaimers is dismissive or belittling of what I'd a serious subject that does conjour up feelings. This is discussion forum by definition there are going to be topics that are hard to talk about and I don't think they should be segregated or treated differently.

I wasn't even going to mention the "it happened to me" but my personal experience was that no one would believe what was happening until the person was caught and even then no one would talk about what happened, because we're catholic and we don't dare talk about this shit in public.

YOu know what? Yes it's a fucking trigger issue for me  but it's not something I'm going to shy away from

If you see it as a weakness and you reject it IN YOURSELF, that's probably ok.

Rejecting it in SOMEBODY ELSE who might have a totally different situation than yours isn't.

If I let my dog jump all over somebody that I know is dog-phobic, that makes ME the asshole.

[Faust]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

I don't think people should harden up, but I do think that adding disclaimers is dismissive or belittling of what I'd a serious subject that does conjour up feelings. This is discussion forum by definition there are going to be topics that are hard to talk about and I don't think they should be segregated or treated differently.

I wasn't even going to mention the "it happened to me" but my personal experience was that no one would believe what was happening until the person was caught and even then no one would talk about what happened, because we're catholic and we don't dare talk about this shit in public.

YOu know what? Yes it's a fucking trigger issue for me  but it's not something I'm going to shy away from

If you see it as a weakness and you reject it IN YOURSELF, that's probably ok.

Rejecting it in SOMEBODY ELSE who might have a totally different situation than yours isn't.

If I let my dog jump all over somebody that I know is dog-phobic, that makes ME the asshole.

fine,  giving someone the chance to look away is one thing.
Using terminoly like "trigger warning", which sounds like a crass and dismissive way of referring to othe subject matter is another.
I'm not accusing pixey of being crass or dismissive of the subject but that's what those words conjour up for me.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Ffs,  there's a bit of a difference between "the opinions expressed here might make you mad" and "this subject matter could be traumatic" ...and a response which effectively says "it happened to me and I can talk about it,harden up" is a cunt move.

I don't think people should harden up, but I do think that adding disclaimers is dismissive or belittling of what I'd a serious subject that does conjour up feelings. This is discussion forum by definition there are going to be topics that are hard to talk about and I don't think they should be segregated or treated differently.

I wasn't even going to mention the "it happened to me" but my personal experience was that no one would believe what was happening until the person was caught and even then no one would talk about what happened, because we're catholic and we don't dare talk about this shit in public.

YOu know what? Yes it's a fucking trigger issue for me  but it's not something I'm going to shy away from

If you see it as a weakness and you reject it IN YOURSELF, that's probably ok.

Rejecting it in SOMEBODY ELSE who might have a totally different situation than yours isn't.

If I let my dog jump all over somebody that I know is dog-phobic, that makes ME the asshole.

fine,  giving someone the chance to look away is one thing.
Using terminoly like "trigger warning", which sounds like a crass and dismissive way of referring to othe subject matter is another.
I'm not accusing pixey of being crass or dismissive of the subject but that's what those words conjour up for me.

I'm not crazy about jargon like "trigger warning" or "empowering" or any of that either, but those aren't going to give anybody flashbacks. I'm HAPPY to be very minorly annoyed for a split second if it keeps somebody else from reliving past trauma. WTF.

You're coming off like Mitt Romney before he cut that kids hair: "HE CAN'T LOOK LIKE THAT" Can't say "trigger warning". Same thing.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I don't think it's necessary to post a big "trigger warning" at the top of a thread just because an article linked from it shows people being horrible about a topic like rape. The OP can outline the situation and anyone who has too much trouble with it is free to click the other way.

Or the title can.  And did.

In any case, way to go.  Pixie's thread has been effectively trashed.

Pixie, would you like a thread split?

I don't need a thread split. The drift wasn't really a drift, it's exactly what the OP is about, being the framework in which we as a society and a culture discuss sex and sexual assault.

Originally I hemmed and hawed about including a trigger warning.. and as Murphy's law would have it, the one time I chose not to, it turned out it WAS needed, which made me feel shitty.

[Faust]

And I'm sorry pixie for taking up so much of the last couple of pages on it, as I've said I don't like the terminology and for every one victim that sees the title there are people who would see if as an excuse to ignore the topic. I thought I could explain that without being attacked or suffer the indeceny of being compared to a presidential candidate.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

And I'm sorry pixie for taking up so much of the last couple of pages on it, as I've said I don't like the terminology and for every one victim that sees the title there are people who would see if as an excuse to ignore the topic. I thought I could explain that without being attacked or suffer the indeceny of being compared to a presidential candidate.

Don't feel bad. At least you're not the equivalent of Trollbear.

[Pæs]

And I'm sorry pixie for taking up so much of the last couple of pages on it, as I've said I don't like the terminology and for every one victim that sees the title there are people who would see if as an excuse to ignore the topic. I thought I could explain that without being attacked or suffer the indeceny of being compared to a presidential candidate.

"We can discuss this without having our hands held" was, imo, a poor way of criticising the terminology. I've never known anyone to avoid a discussion because of a trigger warning except to protect themselves from retraumatisation, so this and the suggestion that trigger warnings are triggering to you were the only cases where the issue seemed to be being belittled to me.

If there is an issue with the terminology resulting in people not addressing the topic, sure, that's a problem, but "I can talk about rape without the insult of being warned about the subject matter" as a justification for a dislike of trigger warnings is fucking stupid. Trigger warnings are a really common way of warning people of subject matter which may trigger them. What is your suggestion for a better way of handling that?

[Faust]

If you want to give someone a chance to leave a thread because of the subject matter you just do an introductory passage in the op, you can even explain that the subject matter is inflammatory but at least the justification of the thread has to be read, instead of just tagging the topic like its some Social media tag [rape] that people can just skim by because it's not one of their interests.
And aside from PD I've known plenty of people who ignore the topic of rape because they don't like reading about it.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

http://www.aaets.org/article178.htm.


I think this section is the most relevant about triggers, and why trigger warnings are a tool to help  people who have been traumatised decide if they want to or feel up to proceeding with reading the subject matter.  Triggers can arrive unnanounced outside the world of the Internets, at least here and on the wider web we can give someone an option not to be re-traumatised.

Intrusive Symptoms: Flashbacks

Intrusive symptoms can be described as those where the traumatic event "intrudes" into everyday life, and is re-experienced. These symptoms are often referred to as Flashbacks. The event is so real and so vivid it feels like the person is actually experiencing the trauma all over again. It is happening right in front of their eyes, and they can't tell what is reality and what is memory.

These flashbacks can range in severity from mild and brief to long and strong. They can involve both sensory perceptions and motor re-enactment too. During a flashback you may experience vivid images, strong smells, or noises. Some may even involve actually acting out a traumatic experience. Many times trauma survivors don't recognize that they are having a flashback nor remember afterwards what happened. It is not unusual for someone to faint or dissociate during a flashback and be unable to recall any part of the experience, even when a witness describes their behavior to them.

Sometimes after a flashback trauma survivors are aware of what triggered especially if someone else observes the behavior and recounts it to them, or if it is a recurring situation.

Sometimes these flashbacks occur as nightmares or bad dreams too. There is some evidence to suggest that traumatic nightmares occur in the earlier, lighter stage of sleep than other dreams, and are more easily recalled upon waking. Traumatic dreams may however contain accurate and inaccurate, literal and symbolic, information and should always be interpreted with caution.

Sometimes there is no actual reliving of the trauma itself, but instead survivors experience a sudden painful emotional breakdown. These can involve crying, anger or fear for no apparent reason, and can occur repeatedly like flashbacks. Sometimes a flashback can involve just having feelings that are far more intense than a situation calls for but would have been appropriate in the original traumatic situation.

The important thing to remember about flashback experiences, especially those related to abuse and rape survivors, is that they can make you feel as afraid, as helpless, and as out of control as you were during the actual trauma, even if you don't consciously remember it. Others have the experience of losing their sense of where the flashback stops and reality begins.* 

*emphasis mine.

I will continue to use a trigger warning if I find a topic like this that I KNOW will cause a trigger in one or more people on this board.  Unfortunately I learned I needed to do this the hard way.  If your distaste for them is a personal opinion, well that's a luxury some other people don't have.

As for those who aren't subject to this kind of traumatic experience who just don't want to discuss or think about the subject matter, that is counterproductive on their part. I agree it does need dragging out into the light of day and to be discussed.  However, I will prioritise the needs of the people that need TW's and make it a standard approach just as we do with the NSFW threads and links.  Maybe next time I will put them in the content of the OP and put a massive jump in the page, rather than the thread title, but when I edited the thread title I was more concerned about Murmur and it was done in haste, and felt a bit like closing the gate after the horse had bolted.  I'm leaving it as is.

[Faust]

I understand and I'm sorry pixie. I didn't realize they were put in as a reaction. I was only ever voicing my dislike of them and didn't think that was as big a deal as some others did. It certainly wasn't an attack on you and I hope you didn't pick it up this way.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I understand and I'm sorry pixie. I didn't realize they were put in as a reaction. I was only ever voicing my dislike of them and didn't think that was as big a deal as some others did. It certainly wasn't an attack on you and I hope you didn't pick it up this way.

Nah, man, it's just PeeDee. We recognise our monkey nature, or at least try to..

Flashbacks. Not cool. 

Sorry Murmur. In a feminist space I would have put a massive TRIGGER WARNING on the whole thing.

In fact I'm going to go back and put one in the thread title now. I considered it before posting, but I wasn't sure if PeeDee needed them. Now I know we do. Sorry again, hon.

Thank you, sweetie... I didn't mean to start a flame-war. Thank you for adding the *trigger warning.*

It's no problem, these happen all the time. Sorry if I've made you feel unsafe on the Internet though 

I don't think it's necessary to post a big "trigger warning" at the top of a thread just because an article linked from it shows people being horrible about a topic like rape. The OP can outline the situation and anyone who has too much trouble with it is free to click the other way.

Or the title can.  And did.

In any case, way to go.  Pixie's thread has been effectively trashed.

Pixie, would you like a thread split?

I don't need a thread split. The drift wasn't really a drift, it's exactly what the OP is about, being the framework in which we as a society and a culture discuss sex and sexual assault.

Originally I hemmed and hawed about including a trigger warning.. and as Murphy's law would have it, the one time I chose not to, it turned out it WAS needed, which made me feel shitty.

I did spell it out a couple of times that I edited after the fact.

You probably should have read the thread properly before going off at the deep end, and I reckon you and Vex owe Murmur more of an apology than me, as she now feels she (or rather my consideration for her emotional well being) caused a shitfest.


When I get back from hanging out with mah femininjas I'm going to push the thread towards rape myths, good and bad examples of rape prevention campaigns and other issues. Hopefully we have agreed on why TW's are needed on PeeDee, just the same as NSFW's are, and the discussion can go further.

[P3nT4gR4m]

...our culture is unable to address rape with the sobriety and clarity the topic deserves because we are still unable to address sex with the sobriety and clarity it deserves. The contention that rape should be regarded as an asexual act has done nothing to remedy this. Nor will it. As activist and writer Wendy McElroy points out, "there can be as many motives for rape as there are for murder and other violent crimes ... Rape is every bit as complex." Insisting that no rape is ever "about" sex but is rather about an individual man acting on a patriarchal mandate to sow terror by exercising "power" does a disservice to us all.

... from the article. Rape is one of those things that even smart people, whom I have a lot of respect for, will put down to "evil" or "monsters" both of which, IMO, is a shortcut to thinking. Rapists are not sent to earth by satan or hatched in jam jars by mad scientists, they are ordinary people whom, for a variety of reasons, be it brain damage, upbringing, circumstance or a mixture of all of these things and more, go on to do something shitty to another human being. I'm lucky in that I don't have any personal history with rape, so when I read the accounts without a hysterical boogeman reaction, I find it interesting just how diverse the reasons are.

Do I sympathise with the rapists? Fuck no - they were weak they were stupid, they were damaged as children and never got round to taking responsibility for their shit and getting over it, whatever. Rapists are fuckheads but it does no good to think of them as the same kinds of fuckheads. It does no good to rule out a whole host of contributing factors.