Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hi.

That class really annoyed me, incidentally.  It was specifically meant to deal with sexual assault, and so I spent hours researching rape, breaking down into distinct categories and types, collecting the statistics to help the students understand the risks and probabilities involved and to cover the whole subject from a more preventative perspective (if you're left to resorting to violence, then I consider that a bad place to start from, especially given on average a female is smaller, lighter and less aggressive than a male attacker.  Ideally, you want to concentrate on all the other things which can help someone avoid such a situation first, then deal with the combat stuff).

So the instructor I was teaching with decided to be all "herp derp put your keys between your fingers and punch your attacker" with the thing.  Nothing about prevention.  No viable combat training, aside from basic punching or kicking, which, IMO, does not cut the mustard when you're dealing with someone looking to rape you.  Especially since that rape can possibly be followed up by murder.  Because of the physical differences between men and women, and the seriousness of the consequences, I personally advocated teaching the most dangerous techniques, designed to maim or kill an attacker.  I was told these were "too dangerous", which I felt was kinda missing the point.  We don't want to hurt the poor violent rapist badly enough to actually convince him to stop his assault?

That class did a gross disservice to everyone who attended, because it not only wasted their time and the school's money, it gave them a false sense of security where none existed.  The only outcomes from using something from that class on a potential rapist would be a) injuring yourself, or b) pissing off the rapist enough to give you a brutal beating along with the sexual assault.  Probably both.

I did lodge a formal complaint with the school that put on the class, but four years after I left, he was still teaching it there.

Fuck, that sucks. You're right about it being a gross disservice to those attending it. If you have to physically fight off an attacker, your best hope is that you will be able to incapacitate or kill him immediately. "Too dangerous", indeed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, you need to counter rape culture just as much as women/females need to be taught how to defend themselves. Otherwise you're not really making a dent in the situation.


I almost forgot this tumblr, which tells you even more than we have about male privilege, if you're interested: http://aboutmaleprivilege.tumblr.com/

More than. Not just as much. More than, by miles and miles.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Hi.

That class really annoyed me, incidentally.  It was specifically meant to deal with sexual assault, and so I spent hours researching rape, breaking down into distinct categories and types, collecting the statistics to help the students understand the risks and probabilities involved and to cover the whole subject from a more preventative perspective (if you're left to resorting to violence, then I consider that a bad place to start from, especially given on average a female is smaller, lighter and less aggressive than a male attacker.  Ideally, you want to concentrate on all the other things which can help someone avoid such a situation first, then deal with the combat stuff).

So the instructor I was teaching with decided to be all "herp derp put your keys between your fingers and punch your attacker" with the thing.  Nothing about prevention.  No viable combat training, aside from basic punching or kicking, which, IMO, does not cut the mustard when you're dealing with someone looking to rape you.  Especially since that rape can possibly be followed up by murder.  Because of the physical differences between men and women, and the seriousness of the consequences, I personally advocated teaching the most dangerous techniques, designed to maim or kill an attacker.  I was told these were "too dangerous", which I felt was kinda missing the point.  We don't want to hurt the poor violent rapist badly enough to actually convince him to stop his assault?

That class did a gross disservice to everyone who attended, because it not only wasted their time and the school's money, it gave them a false sense of security where none existed.  The only outcomes from using something from that class on a potential rapist would be a) injuring yourself, or b) pissing off the rapist enough to give you a brutal beating along with the sexual assault.  Probably both.

I did lodge a formal complaint with the school that put on the class, but four years after I left, he was still teaching it there.

Fuck, that sucks. You're right about it being a gross disservice to those attending it. If you have to physically fight off an attacker, your best hope is that you will be able to incapacitate or kill him immediately. "Too dangerous", indeed.

This is why I want to learn Krav Maga, which is all about the maiming, incapacitating and maybe more.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Man, I'd love to turn the best bits of this thread into a blog at some point,  especially ECH's last post.

[Salty]

I don't worry about being raped. I worry, or at least I used to worry, about being beaten, possibly to death for being too soft.

I'm smaller, weaker, and less aggressive than most male attackers would be. I worry about homophobes having a bad day and wanting to take out on the first person they identify as a faggot. I mention it ITT because, well, it largely stems from the same problem. Certain men see something they can gain power over and enforce it, usually when it departs from what is supposed to be male.

Alaska is a MANLY place.
I've been yelled at from people in big trucks frequently, I see small, nasty looks from people in bars and coffee shops, I've been to parties where I know to become invisible and leave as soon as possible. And almost universally I see the strong, hungry, furious looks in their eyes. Hell, some redneck, racist piece of shit once told me in High School that I was lucky my earring was on the correct side of my face or otherwise he'd have to drag me with his pickup truck.

Maybe rape is possible, but it's never something that I can taste in my panic. Though, this was much more of a concern when I was younger than it is now. Then again, I've been on guard more recently as DR. Fiancé has a shaved head. I think I've learned how to appear less soft, and so they don't pick me out as easily. I guess that's how I deal with it. I also always carry something sharp. Other than that standard self defense stuff like knowing your surroundings, listening, avoiding certain places, watching my state of drunkenness when I'm by myself and far from home.

Unless I hang out with other spags, in which case I fear nothing because, well, most of you will KILL A MOTHERFUCKER.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I don't worry about being raped. I worry, or at least I used to worry, about being beaten, possibly to death for being too soft.

I'm smaller, weaker, and less aggressive than most male attackers would be. I worry about homophobes having a bad day and wanting to take out on the first person they identify as a faggot. I mention it ITT because, well, it largely stems from the same problem. Certain men see something they can gain power over and enforce it, usually when it departs from what is supposed to be male.

Alaska is a MANLY place.
I've been yelled at from people in big trucks frequently, I see small, nasty looks from people in bars and coffee shops, I've been to parties where I know to become invisible and leave as soon as possible. And almost universally I see the strong, hungry, furious looks in their eyes. Hell, some redneck, racist piece of shit once told me in High School that I was lucky my earring was on the correct side of my face or otherwise he'd have to drag me with his pickup truck.

Maybe rape is possible, but it's never something that I can taste in my panic. Though, this was much more of a concern when I was younger than it is now. Then again, I've been on guard more recently as DR. Fiancé has a shaved head. I think I've learned how to appear less soft, and so they don't pick me out as easily. I guess that's how I deal with it. I also always carry something sharp. Other than that standard self defense stuff like knowing your surroundings, listening, avoiding certain places, watching my state of drunkenness when I'm by myself and far from home.

Unless I hang out with other spags, in which case I fear nothing because, well, most of you will KILL A MOTHERFUCKER.

This post made me feel like KILLING A MOTHERFUCKER. I hate guys like that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh I forgot something I used to do because I don't have them anymore, and I'd really like to find them again, but fashion is a fickle creature.

I used to wear those chopstick style things to put my hair up, and I only actually need one to keep my hair in place, so the other one was there as a potential weapon, my favourite ones were wicked sharp at the tips, and would often carry one in my hand when walking alone.

OK now I want to hear from the guys about what they do to prevent potential sexual assault and street harassment.

Honestly?  Not much, other than not tolerating anything having to do with it in my presence.

[East Coast Hustle]

Man, I'd love to turn the best bits of this thread into a blog at some point,  especially ECH's last post.

If you do, feel free to use anything I've posted, with attribution. Given the subject matter, this would be something I'd prefer to have my real name attached to rather than the ECH moniker. I'd be both happy and proud to point anybody who needs a head-check in the right direction.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Man, I'd love to turn the best bits of this thread into a blog at some point,  especially ECH's last post.

If you do, feel free to use anything I've posted, with attribution. Given the subject matter, this would be something I'd prefer to have my real name attached to rather than the ECH moniker. I'd be both happy and proud to point anybody who needs a head-check in the right direction.

Cool.

[BabylonHoruv]

Oh I forgot something I used to do because I don't have them anymore, and I'd really like to find them again, but fashion is a fickle creature.

I used to wear those chopstick style things to put my hair up, and I only actually need one to keep my hair in place, so the other one was there as a potential weapon, my favourite ones were wicked sharp at the tips, and would often carry one in my hand when walking alone.

OK now I want to hear from the guys about what they do to prevent potential sexual assault and street harassment.

The only guys I know who take measures to prevent sexual assault spent time in prison.  The measures they took were to join gangs and get tattoos that showed their gang affiliation so that potential rapists knew that revenge would be taken.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Man, I'd love to turn the best bits of this thread into a blog at some point,  especially ECH's last post.

If you do, feel free to use anything I've posted, with attribution. Given the subject matter, this would be something I'd prefer to have my real name attached to rather than the ECH moniker. I'd be both happy and proud to point anybody who needs a head-check in the right direction.

Cool.

If any of mine is usable, go for it.

ETA: real name. Thanks.

[Juana]

Ditto, should you want to (and also under my actual name, too)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Man, I'd love to turn the best bits of this thread into a blog at some point,  especially ECH's last post.

If you do, feel free to use anything I've posted, with attribution. Given the subject matter, this would be something I'd prefer to have my real name attached to rather than the ECH moniker. I'd be both happy and proud to point anybody who needs a head-check in the right direction.

Likewise.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Anything I wrote is usable under Dirty Old Uncle Roger.

Also, I'm done with the PUA conversation.  Blackfoot is not - at this time - able to listen to understand, rather than listening to respond.

[Cain]

There was a pretty good PUA thread on xkcd a while back, which helped me to more accurately think about why that particular sub-culture gives off some pretty bad vibes.

The whole issue of "testing boundaries" came up there as well, and someone posed a very good question: what happens if you're pushing the boundaries of a woman who has been raped?  What if a woman is uncomfortable with being sexually approached because of that incident, and you're up in her face, testing her boundaries?  Just how much of a dick does that make someone, for not taking "no" for an answer and going away?

Look, I'm going to explain something real simple here: you're not owed female attention.  Attempting to interact with someone who does not want said interaction is not only ethically questionable, it can be considered harassment.  Testing boundaries is all well and good when a) it's consensual, or b) the target really fucking deserves it.  Since a) is out of the question here, as we're already assuming someone who has made clear a lack of interest, then we're left with b).  Every woman in public is asking to be sexually approached and have their boundaries tested. 

Don't know about you, but to me, the idea that women must make themselves available for the sexual advances of men, regardless of how open they are to such advances...well, that sounds pretty sexist to me.  Sounds like the product of a mind who lumps all women together in a group, and who thinks about women as objects for their gratification.  Hardly an enlightened POV.