Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Freeky]

I just don't get it. I could see being a 'ladies man' if it was because lots of girls wanted you, there's a huge ego burnishing value there... but whats the value of being so insistent (aka lame and pathetic) that they eventually give up and say OK?

Two things:

1. The PUA techniques do work on some women.  The emotional manipulation bits, I mean.  These women are insecure in the first place, and the negging and so on makes them want to prove to themselves and the guys who do it as worthy of positive attention (sex). 

2. PUA don't think like that.  They base success and failure on how well they can make a woman sleep with them.  They don't see it as pathetic and rapey, they see it like, like the more often they can make a woman sleep with them, the sharper and more honed their skills are, and the more successful and desirable they are.  They don't see it in terms of "Hey, this woman doesn't want to sleep with me, I'll wear her down," it's way more a game, it seems like.  A game, I'll add, that disqualifies women who these techniques do not and will not work on from playing.

I get that...I mean at a surface level I get that. But, really, deep down, they have to realize that they're choads. I haven't met a choad yet that doesn't, somewhere deep in their soul, know that they are a choad. They may have a lot of issues that help them ignore/cover it, but they still recognize it at some level.

Ugh, after reading all of this I think I feel sorry for girls that are insecure enough to fall for PUA and for PUA's that are so broken they find some sort of pseudo fulfillment in that kind of behavior.

Must be a regional thing.

I'm not entirely sure that some PUA know or are capable of knowing what they do is shitty.  I don't know if you remember when we trolled Manhood101, but the dude there, some guy with a variant of purple in his name, was totally sure that this is how men are supposed to treat women, and that it was 100% okay to do that shit.

Part of me would like to troll some MRA's and PUA forums but I'm pretty sure that they would both squick me out too hard to waste bandwidth on them.

It is even more squick than you imagine.  There's guys who seem like they would be otherwise decent people, except they're hanging out on a PUA forum, who are fawning over these guys who instruct them in a very specific way, and it is always sexual assault or better ways to neg and stuff like that.  Often, too, you have to pay to get into any of the PUA sites.  This one had a free area, but you could pay $5k to go to boot camp, and a $50/year membership fee, so it's mostly inaccessible as well.

[Placid Dingo]

http://theattractivearts.com/2012/08/how_tolerating_rape_culture_keeps_you_frustrated/

written for men but everyone should read this it's fucking wonderful.

[Cain]

The opening paragraphs are probably not the best way to think about things ("misogynist bullshit won't get you laid, d00d") but it's a step in the right direction, I'll give it that much.

The rest of the article gets better though, and more into the kinds of things we bought up here.  As I understand it, the "social dynamics" crowd are a PUA offshoot that deals more in self-improvement and actualization than just getting laid, and so tend to have less offensive and/or idiotic beliefs about women, feminism etc.

[Freeky]

The opening paragraphs are probably not the best way to think about things ("misogynist bullshit won't get you laid, d00d") but it's a step in the right direction, I'll give it that much.

The rest of the article gets better though, and more into the kinds of things we bought up here.  As I understand it, the "social dynamics" crowd are a PUA offshoot that deals more in self-improvement and actualization than just getting laid, and so tend to have less offensive and/or idiotic beliefs about women, feminism etc.

Haven't heard about pua offshoots. To the internet!

[Cain]

Check out the follow up thread, too, for hilarious quotes from idiots.

http://theattractivearts.com/2012/08/backlash-of-the-titans/

Apparently, Rake upset a LOT of wannabe rapists.

[Freeky]

Check out the follow up thread, too, for hilarious quotes from idiots.

http://theattractivearts.com/2012/08/backlash-of-the-titans/

Apparently, Rake upset a LOT of wannabe rapists.

Jebus.

[Juana]

Good lord.

[Placid Dingo]

Ah Cain beat me to the follow up.

Yeah the tone was meant as parody I understand but was a little clumsy in delivery. Still, misogyny fucks up sexual culture for everyone is a legit point.

The unnamed site is Fetlife, btw.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://theattractivearts.com/2012/08/how_tolerating_rape_culture_keeps_you_frustrated/

written for men but everyone should read this it's fucking wonderful.

Both that and the follow-up thread are absolutely great! They do a fantastic job of illustrating what rape culture actually means and is. It's arguing that "the guy didn't mean any harm and you were too hard on him" instead of "thanks for intervening, it was making me uncomfortable but I was too timid to step in". It's getting angry at the girl who points out that misogynistic culture is embedded in the language, because YOU don't mean it misogynistically, instead of recognizing that the language reflects the culture and wondering what you can do about it. It's listening to a girl complain about the creepy guy who won't stop hitting on her and saying "just ignore it" or "at least it's flattering" instead of saying "yeah, that's inappropriate; next time tell him to fuck off, and if that doesn't work let me know and I'll back you up".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ah Cain beat me to the follow up.

Yeah the tone was meant as parody I understand but was a little clumsy in delivery. Still, misogyny fucks up sexual culture for everyone is a legit point.

The unnamed site is Fetlife, btw.

That site is fucking CREEPTASTIC. I had a troll account there but I eventually just abandoned it because it's stomach-churning. Not because I have a problem with fetishes and etc. but because it's chock-full of nauseating creeps.

[Cain]

That blog in general actually looks like pretty solid and sensible advice when it comes to dating.  For example:

For example, let's say you've been chatting up a hottie, and something is about to interrupt, be it the hottie's friends, your friends, the closing of the venue, or simply a strategic move on your part. Here are a few ways you might phrase your closing invitation:

    (High RRR) "Hey, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'd love to continue it later on. What's the best way for that to happen?"

    (Moderate RRR) "I've gotta run, but I'm going to [similar function/venue] at [time and place]. You should totally come, you would love it!"

    (Low RRR) "I'm starving. Let's go grab [food] at [place]! My treat."

    (Lowest RRR) *kiss* "You know you wanna come home with me." *playful smile*

Here, on the other hand, are some common  pitfalls to avoid:

    "Can I have your phone number?" or, even worse, "Can I call you sometime?" (Makes PIQ wonder, "Should I be giving my number to a stranger??" also, "Will there be some consequence if I say no?")

    "I have to see you again." (Spoken like a true stalker.)

    "Here's my card. Give me a buzz." (Never leave the ball irretrievably in the PIQ's court!)

Above all, if your PIQ is in any way hesitant, DON'T apply pressure ("Oh come on, live a little!"), proclaim your harmlessness ("I'm not gonna harrass you or anything."), bargain ("Well then how about your email?"), or, worst of all, attempt to emotionally manipulate/blackmail your PIQ ("I've spent all this time talking to you/buying you drinks/whatever, the least you can do is give me your digits!").

When in doubt, just be honest. Crazy concept, I know. But there's nothing wrong with saying, "I would love to see you again," and then waiting for a response. So long as you aren't asking for anything, it can only be taken as a compliment.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That blog in general actually looks like pretty solid and sensible advice when it comes to dating.  For example:

For example, let's say you've been chatting up a hottie, and something is about to interrupt, be it the hottie's friends, your friends, the closing of the venue, or simply a strategic move on your part. Here are a few ways you might phrase your closing invitation:

    (High RRR) "Hey, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'd love to continue it later on. What's the best way for that to happen?"

    (Moderate RRR) "I've gotta run, but I'm going to [similar function/venue] at [time and place]. You should totally come, you would love it!"

    (Low RRR) "I'm starving. Let's go grab [food] at [place]! My treat."

    (Lowest RRR) *kiss* "You know you wanna come home with me." *playful smile*

Here, on the other hand, are some common  pitfalls to avoid:

    "Can I have your phone number?" or, even worse, "Can I call you sometime?" (Makes PIQ wonder, "Should I be giving my number to a stranger??" also, "Will there be some consequence if I say no?")

    "I have to see you again." (Spoken like a true stalker.)

    "Here's my card. Give me a buzz." (Never leave the ball irretrievably in the PIQ's court!)

Above all, if your PIQ is in any way hesitant, DON'T apply pressure ("Oh come on, live a little!"), proclaim your harmlessness ("I'm not gonna harrass you or anything."), bargain ("Well then how about your email?"), or, worst of all, attempt to emotionally manipulate/blackmail your PIQ ("I've spent all this time talking to you/buying you drinks/whatever, the least you can do is give me your digits!").

When in doubt, just be honest. Crazy concept, I know. But there's nothing wrong with saying, "I would love to see you again," and then waiting for a response. So long as you aren't asking for anything, it can only be taken as a compliment.

That is fucking excellent advice! Also, when I've had a good conversation with someone, "I've really enjoyed talking to you, and would love to hang out again sometime!" is ALWAYS a winner.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Having poked around a little, I think that any time I encounter someone who expresses interest in PUA bullshit I'm going to refer them there instead. For one thing, they seem to actually WANT people to get laid and have healthy relationships, unlike the PUA shit which seems specifically designed to prevent anyone from ever having sex at all.

[Cain]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

That they also have female and non-straight writers also seems to be a good sign.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Having poked around a little, I think that any time I encounter someone who expresses interest in PUA bullshit I'm going to refer them there instead. For one thing, they seem to actually WANT people to get laid and have healthy relationships, unlike the PUA shit which seems specifically designed to prevent anyone from ever having sex at all.

Um.  It is specifically designed so that "Mystery" can charge $4000 for a "boot camp" in which the marks "make runs" at women, who at first are picked at random, but after the "training" are apparently prostitutes hired by Mystery as shills.

Guess who helped Mystery develop his act?  Why, yes, it was the guy who owned Church of Google.