Author Topic: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!  (Read 81417 times)

Faust

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #630 on: August 16, 2012, 12:00:59 am »
To further kick the tangent can down the road in regards to CIS.

I think it's the second most lame pejorative term I've come across in the last few years. The worst is still breeder.

Take cunt for example. It's a word I've never used outside this thread. As a curse word it is concise, conjuring up guttural imagery with an onomatopoeic (is this the right word?) oomf in the unt and the harsh inflection of the C/K sound, (probably explaining its wide use in England) and the popularity of "Fuck".
It has all manner of awful connotations. As a 'Bad' word it serves its purpose.

Now lets look at Breeder.
Straight off the bat we have a whiny ringing E sound, and awkward R inflections. What images does it create? A horse rancher?
Even taken in the literal sense it's a grim and depressing look at homosexuality, in fact its almost shooting oneself in the foot to use it: while having children is an option for most heterosexual couples, in a lot of countries for homosexual couples it is not, Its antonym would be something like "barren".

Thats why I think the word breeder is the shittiest swear word to use.

So lets come Back to CIS, CIS men and the like
Even in genuine use CIS is inflexible, has no musical ring to it and for the mundane ignorant masses such as myself meaningless. As a gender descriptor its ugly, Homo has the lovely repetition of the O's, hetro snaps back on the tongue, lesbian and so on are sexy sounding words, they literally evoke images of sexuality.

As a pejorative it was even less accessible, it was obscure. Googling it led me to the feminist equivalent of bible beaters who assume everyone other then them is going to hell.
Narrator: In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings

May you find your worth in the waking world.

Juana

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #631 on: August 16, 2012, 12:09:33 am »
Which part are you disagreeing with, Alts?
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

AFK

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #632 on: August 16, 2012, 12:13:11 am »
I think that we're also struggling with the word "understand", because there is sympathetic understanding, and empathetic understanding. Sympathetic understanding is a cognitive process, whereas empathetic understanding is an emotional process; in sympathetic understanding, you are tapping into what they are expressing and giving them support, whereas in empathetic understanding you actually feel what they feel because you have had that, or a very similar, experience.

Most men can't have empathetic understanding for what women experience in our culture, nor can most women have empathetic understanding of what men experience in our culture. They can, however, have sympathetic understanding, which is why listening to each other is so important.


This is where it becomes semantic and meaningless bullshit.


Because given these ideas, a male that has suffered physical or emotional trauma is going to have far more "empathetic understanding" of what it's like to suffer physical or emotional trauma than a female who was boen with a silver spoon in her mouth and has suffered nothing. 


But as far as practical advancing the cause, I don't need this "empathetic understanding" to know I should work to advance the cause of women in our society.


Not to mention that it is a benefit to EVERYONE in our society, male and female, to advance the cause of women inour society.
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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #633 on: August 16, 2012, 12:14:53 am »
To further kick the tangent can down the road in regards to CIS.

I think it's the second most lame pejorative term I've come across in the last few years. The worst is still breeder.

Take cunt for example. It's a word I've never used outside this thread. As a curse word it is concise, conjuring up guttural imagery with an onomatopoeic (is this the right word?) oomf in the unt and the harsh inflection of the C/K sound, (probably explaining its wide use in England) and the popularity of "Fuck".
It has all manner of awful connotations. As a 'Bad' word it serves its purpose.

Now lets look at Breeder.
Straight off the bat we have a whiny ringing E sound, and awkward R inflections. What images does it create? A horse rancher?
Even taken in the literal sense it's a grim and depressing look at homosexuality, in fact its almost shooting oneself in the foot to use it: while having children is an option for most heterosexual couples, in a lot of countries for homosexual couples it is not, Its antonym would be something like "barren".

Thats why I think the word breeder is the shittiest swear word to use.

So lets come Back to CIS, CIS men and the like
Even in genuine use CIS is inflexible, has no musical ring to it and for the mundane ignorant masses such as myself meaningless. As a gender descriptor its ugly, Homo has the lovely repetition of the O's, hetro snaps back on the tongue, lesbian and so on are sexy sounding words, they literally evoke images of sexuality.

As a pejorative it was even less accessible, it was obscure. Googling it led me to the feminist equivalent of bible beaters who assume everyone other then them is going to hell.

I get a mental image of a sign outside some dirt bar: "NO CIS MEN OR DOGS ALLOWED".  :x
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AFK

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #634 on: August 16, 2012, 12:18:44 am »
Tantamount to nothing but every time I see that phrase "CIS MEN" my brain goes all dyslexic and conjures up images of Horatio Cane and Grissom.
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Faust

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #635 on: August 16, 2012, 12:19:13 am »
To further kick the tangent can down the road in regards to CIS.

I think it's the second most lame pejorative term I've come across in the last few years. The worst is still breeder.

Take cunt for example. It's a word I've never used outside this thread. As a curse word it is concise, conjuring up guttural imagery with an onomatopoeic (is this the right word?) oomf in the unt and the harsh inflection of the C/K sound, (probably explaining its wide use in England) and the popularity of "Fuck".
It has all manner of awful connotations. As a 'Bad' word it serves its purpose.

Now lets look at Breeder.
Straight off the bat we have a whiny ringing E sound, and awkward R inflections. What images does it create? A horse rancher?
Even taken in the literal sense it's a grim and depressing look at homosexuality, in fact its almost shooting oneself in the foot to use it: while having children is an option for most heterosexual couples, in a lot of countries for homosexual couples it is not, Its antonym would be something like "barren".

Thats why I think the word breeder is the shittiest swear word to use.

So lets come Back to CIS, CIS men and the like
Even in genuine use CIS is inflexible, has no musical ring to it and for the mundane ignorant masses such as myself meaningless. As a gender descriptor its ugly, Homo has the lovely repetition of the O's, hetro snaps back on the tongue, lesbian and so on are sexy sounding words, they literally evoke images of sexuality.

As a pejorative it was even less accessible, it was obscure. Googling it led me to the feminist equivalent of bible beaters who assume everyone other then them is going to hell.

I get a mental image of a sign outside some dirt bar: "NO CIS MEN OR DOGS ALLOWED".  :x

Not feeling it, CIS is really too PC despite being a bigoted term, ugh even being discriminated against in this century has to be bland.
Narrator: In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #636 on: August 16, 2012, 12:20:52 am »
Tantamount to nothing but every time I see that phrase "CIS MEN" my brain goes all dyslexic and conjures up images of Horatio Cane and Grissom.

I had that same problem :D
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Faust

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #637 on: August 16, 2012, 12:21:49 am »
Tantamount to nothing but every time I see that phrase "CIS MEN" my brain goes all dyslexic and conjures up images of Horatio Cane and Grissom.

"What do you think Horatio?"

"I think you need to..." *Puts on Avaitors * "Forget everything you know about gender" *Cue intro music*
Narrator: In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings

May you find your worth in the waking world.

AFK

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #638 on: August 16, 2012, 12:23:58 am »
 :putin:
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Juana

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #639 on: August 16, 2012, 12:25:43 am »
Jesus christ, it's not a bigoted term any more than trans* is. It's a specialized word, that's all. Did I use it in a way that can be construed as bigoted? I suppose so, if you're not willing to see that it's about criticizing IDEAS rather than sex or gender (I really do not want to have to start this over again; I've explained it like twice already). Are there people who do use it like that and paint a broad brush over all cis men? Absolutely. I used it poorly to describe what Nigel called the 'tragedy of the oppressor', that's all.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #640 on: August 16, 2012, 12:26:32 am »
Oh, and because I never get to be on this side of these things...


C'mon 50 pages!!!
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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #641 on: August 16, 2012, 12:28:52 am »
It's not you, Garbo, I just don't like the word.
BUT DON'T MIND ME, I'M A CISSY GRRRRRL! GEE, MATH IS HARD! *giggles* *crosses eyes like Jayne Mansfield*
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Juana

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #642 on: August 16, 2012, 12:31:25 am »
I'm gonna add that the word "cis" doesn't try to define what "woman" or "man" means to you. Or how you express it. Or what it means in other cultures.

And who the fuck is Jayne Mansfield?
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #643 on: August 16, 2012, 12:32:03 am »
Jesus christ, it's not a bigoted term any more than trans* is. It's a specialized word, that's all. Did I use it in a way that can be construed as bigoted? I suppose so, if you're not willing to see that it's about criticizing IDEAS rather than sex or gender (I really do not want to have to start this over again; I've explained it like twice already). Are there people who do use it like that and paint a broad brush over all cis men? Absolutely. I used it poorly to describe what Nigel called the 'tragedy of the oppressor', that's all.

I don't understand its value at all... I don't care if people want to use it, but it seems like a pretty useless label.

"trans" = your inside genetics and outside genetics don't match
"homosexual' = your sexual preference is for the same sex
"cis" = your inside genetics and outside genetics match and your sexual preference is for the opposite sex.

err... the first two I get, the third seems silly to me.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

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Re: Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!
« Reply #644 on: August 16, 2012, 12:37:19 am »
I'm gonna add that the word "cis" doesn't try to define what "woman" or "man" means to you. Or how you express it. Or what it means in other cultures.

And who the fuck is Jayne Mansfield?

Made a bazillion dollars playing ditzy blond characters. Usually was falling out of her clothes, talking in a high, squeaky voice and crossing her eyes like she had brain trauma.  :lol: It was a long time ago.




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