LABELS - The Thread!

[P3nT4gR4m]

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, had a guy relate an incident to me with the express purpose of conveying how it made him feel. I've never, to the best of my knowledge, related an incident to someone with the express purpose of conveying how it made me feel.

Now that I'm thinking about this, tho, I'm pretty sure my GF does this all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of women do. I'm not imagining this? Women actually tell me stories and the sole purpose in telling me is so that I will know how it made them feel?

That's fucking ridiculous. Why the fuck would someone do something like that?

holy fuck! If this is a real thing then it's a total game changer 

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, had a guy relate an incident to me with the express purpose of conveying how it made him feel. I've never, to the best of my knowledge, related an incident to someone with the express purpose of conveying how it made me feel.

Now that I'm thinking about this, tho, I'm pretty sure my GF does this all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of women do. I'm not imagining this? Women actually tell me stories and the sole purpose in telling me is so that I will know how it made them feel?

That's fucking ridiculous. Why the fuck would someone do something like that?

holy fuck! If this is a real thing then it's a total game changer 

Women tend to study emotions, I think. I can see a fleeting expression on a person's face that lasted maybe a split second, and spend a long time contemplating what it might have meant.

But that said, PLEASE don't let this thread turn into a "Men are from mars, women are from venus" clusterfuck.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Doesn't make sense to me, whether it's a gender specific thing or not.

"I got punched in the face on the way to work"

Holy fuck. Why? What happened? Did you punch them back?

"I felt like sad puppy with sore face"

Well, duh!

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I have felt the need to have my emotions recognized in the past. Sometimes knowing you're not bat shit crazy because of how something made you feel helps in the process of getting past it. As long as "getting past it" is the ultimate goal, and not some kind of weird validation for its own sake, I don't see a problem.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yeah. I'd hate to assume that every time I related some story, people would just think, "Oh, she's a woman, she just wants me to tell her I understand how she FEELS. Women are such EMOTIONAL creatures."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I didn't say it was worse. I said it was different.

It's beginning to sound like a cause.

Feminism/eglatarianism isn't a cause, it's a behavior.  When it becomes a cause, it becomes the "ism" instead of the beneficial thing it started out to be.  It becomes a uniform that you put on, button up REAL tight around your throat, and then stomp around in, demanding that your ism gets all the due recognition it deserves.

But here's the problem:  In addition to losing the actual value of the behavior, you also induce emotional fatigue in those around you.  It's not that people want to stop caring, it's that they become weary of hearing the same thing being bellowed over and over again, and they CAN'T keep caring.

After 911, there was about a 2 year period in which ~ 80% of the population was scared into a national nervous breakdown.  People were fucking TERRIFIED right out of their rational minds.  By 2004, however, they were losing the capability of remaining scared, and by the Detroit attempt in 2009, everyone was laughing at the idiot terrorist that burned his junk off.

So now we're having "privilege" and "rape" repeatedly being brought up to the exclusion of any other facet of the whole feminism/eglatarianism conversation.  It's been addressed to death, brought back to life, clubbed back into it's grave, dug up, and hauled through the village streets.  These two facets of the conversation have become the ENTIRE conversation, and there's nothing more to be said about it...And they've taken the REST of the ideas with them.

In fact, it's turned "addressed from privilege" from a valid concern to what is being perceived as a means of shutting down disagreement, even if that was never the intent.

So at this point I have to ask if there's anything more to talk about, because if it's going to continue to be about privilege and rape, I'd like to leave the conversations/threads while I still have any capacity for outrage on these subjects at all.

For God's sake, BUMP.

Maybe because those are two points on which people still feel they are not being heard. That's usually the case when issues keep resurfacing.

I had an insight on this whole thing, but it's gone now.

3 threads all turn into the same two things over and over again.  Might be that people aren't being heard.  Might also be that they don't have anything else to say on the subject.

In any case, I'll return to the conversation later.

I kinda disagree with you on the "don't have anything else to say on the subject" issue. What I, personally, keep noticing is that a recurring trend is that when men talk about their experiences, people tend to say "It sucks that you were treated that way; here is why the other person might have acted that way" and when women talk about their experiences, people tend to say "This is what you should do/think differently".

I think that kind of response tends to put people on the defensive, and then the conversation gets taken over by the debate about women's experiences.

And while we're doing that, shit like THIS happens:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/17/710101/gop-senate-candidate-suggests-the-voting-rights-act-of-1965-should-be-overturned/

What's your point? Is it that we shouldn't be wasting time talking about things like rape and gender inequality and trying to come to a point of mutual understanding and communication, because there are other fucked-up issues that need to be addressed?

Well fuck it. I don't belong on this board at all. I should be narrowing down my concerns to the one most important injustice, and focusing on that exclusively.

I don't have a point. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Look, I seem to be pissing people off with every comment I make.  Nothing I say is right...More to the point, everything I say is offensive.

For the good of the conversation, I'm bowing out.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, had a guy relate an incident to me with the express purpose of conveying how it made him feel. I've never, to the best of my knowledge, related an incident to someone with the express purpose of conveying how it made me feel.

Now that I'm thinking about this, tho, I'm pretty sure my GF does this all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of women do. I'm not imagining this? Women actually tell me stories and the sole purpose in telling me is so that I will know how it made them feel?

That's fucking ridiculous. Why the fuck would someone do something like that?

holy fuck! If this is a real thing then it's a total game changer 

Uh, yeah dude. It's a real thing. Many people, especially women, communicate with the intent of conveying emotion, so they can be understood.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I didn't say it was worse. I said it was different.

It's beginning to sound like a cause.

Feminism/eglatarianism isn't a cause, it's a behavior.  When it becomes a cause, it becomes the "ism" instead of the beneficial thing it started out to be.  It becomes a uniform that you put on, button up REAL tight around your throat, and then stomp around in, demanding that your ism gets all the due recognition it deserves.

But here's the problem:  In addition to losing the actual value of the behavior, you also induce emotional fatigue in those around you.  It's not that people want to stop caring, it's that they become weary of hearing the same thing being bellowed over and over again, and they CAN'T keep caring.

After 911, there was about a 2 year period in which ~ 80% of the population was scared into a national nervous breakdown.  People were fucking TERRIFIED right out of their rational minds.  By 2004, however, they were losing the capability of remaining scared, and by the Detroit attempt in 2009, everyone was laughing at the idiot terrorist that burned his junk off.

So now we're having "privilege" and "rape" repeatedly being brought up to the exclusion of any other facet of the whole feminism/eglatarianism conversation.  It's been addressed to death, brought back to life, clubbed back into it's grave, dug up, and hauled through the village streets.  These two facets of the conversation have become the ENTIRE conversation, and there's nothing more to be said about it...And they've taken the REST of the ideas with them.

In fact, it's turned "addressed from privilege" from a valid concern to what is being perceived as a means of shutting down disagreement, even if that was never the intent.

So at this point I have to ask if there's anything more to talk about, because if it's going to continue to be about privilege and rape, I'd like to leave the conversations/threads while I still have any capacity for outrage on these subjects at all.

For God's sake, BUMP.

Maybe because those are two points on which people still feel they are not being heard. That's usually the case when issues keep resurfacing.

I had an insight on this whole thing, but it's gone now.

3 threads all turn into the same two things over and over again.  Might be that people aren't being heard.  Might also be that they don't have anything else to say on the subject.

In any case, I'll return to the conversation later.

I kinda disagree with you on the "don't have anything else to say on the subject" issue. What I, personally, keep noticing is that a recurring trend is that when men talk about their experiences, people tend to say "It sucks that you were treated that way; here is why the other person might have acted that way" and when women talk about their experiences, people tend to say "This is what you should do/think differently".

I think that kind of response tends to put people on the defensive, and then the conversation gets taken over by the debate about women's experiences.

And while we're doing that, shit like THIS happens:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/17/710101/gop-senate-candidate-suggests-the-voting-rights-act-of-1965-should-be-overturned/

What's your point? Is it that we shouldn't be wasting time talking about things like rape and gender inequality and trying to come to a point of mutual understanding and communication, because there are other fucked-up issues that need to be addressed?

Well fuck it. I don't belong on this board at all. I should be narrowing down my concerns to the one most important injustice, and focusing on that exclusively.

I don't have a point.

Uh, as it turns out, you do.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php?m=1

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I didn't say it was worse. I said it was different.

It's beginning to sound like a cause.

Feminism/eglatarianism isn't a cause, it's a behavior.  When it becomes a cause, it becomes the "ism" instead of the beneficial thing it started out to be.  It becomes a uniform that you put on, button up REAL tight around your throat, and then stomp around in, demanding that your ism gets all the due recognition it deserves.

But here's the problem:  In addition to losing the actual value of the behavior, you also induce emotional fatigue in those around you.  It's not that people want to stop caring, it's that they become weary of hearing the same thing being bellowed over and over again, and they CAN'T keep caring.

After 911, there was about a 2 year period in which ~ 80% of the population was scared into a national nervous breakdown.  People were fucking TERRIFIED right out of their rational minds.  By 2004, however, they were losing the capability of remaining scared, and by the Detroit attempt in 2009, everyone was laughing at the idiot terrorist that burned his junk off.

So now we're having "privilege" and "rape" repeatedly being brought up to the exclusion of any other facet of the whole feminism/eglatarianism conversation.  It's been addressed to death, brought back to life, clubbed back into it's grave, dug up, and hauled through the village streets.  These two facets of the conversation have become the ENTIRE conversation, and there's nothing more to be said about it...And they've taken the REST of the ideas with them.

In fact, it's turned "addressed from privilege" from a valid concern to what is being perceived as a means of shutting down disagreement, even if that was never the intent.

So at this point I have to ask if there's anything more to talk about, because if it's going to continue to be about privilege and rape, I'd like to leave the conversations/threads while I still have any capacity for outrage on these subjects at all.

For God's sake, BUMP.

Maybe because those are two points on which people still feel they are not being heard. That's usually the case when issues keep resurfacing.

I had an insight on this whole thing, but it's gone now.

3 threads all turn into the same two things over and over again.  Might be that people aren't being heard.  Might also be that they don't have anything else to say on the subject.

In any case, I'll return to the conversation later.

I kinda disagree with you on the "don't have anything else to say on the subject" issue. What I, personally, keep noticing is that a recurring trend is that when men talk about their experiences, people tend to say "It sucks that you were treated that way; here is why the other person might have acted that way" and when women talk about their experiences, people tend to say "This is what you should do/think differently".

I think that kind of response tends to put people on the defensive, and then the conversation gets taken over by the debate about women's experiences.

And while we're doing that, shit like THIS happens:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/17/710101/gop-senate-candidate-suggests-the-voting-rights-act-of-1965-should-be-overturned/

What's your point? Is it that we shouldn't be wasting time talking about things like rape and gender inequality and trying to come to a point of mutual understanding and communication, because there are other fucked-up issues that need to be addressed?

Well fuck it. I don't belong on this board at all. I should be narrowing down my concerns to the one most important injustice, and focusing on that exclusively.

I don't have a point.

Uh, as it turns out, you do.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php?m=1

Someone else can run with it.  I'm just a little tired of being snarled at.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, had a guy relate an incident to me with the express purpose of conveying how it made him feel. I've never, to the best of my knowledge, related an incident to someone with the express purpose of conveying how it made me feel.

Now that I'm thinking about this, tho, I'm pretty sure my GF does this all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of women do. I'm not imagining this? Women actually tell me stories and the sole purpose in telling me is so that I will know how it made them feel?

That's fucking ridiculous. Why the fuck would someone do something like that?

holy fuck! If this is a real thing then it's a total game changer 

Uh, yeah dude. It's a real thing. Many people, especially women, communicate with the intent of conveying emotion, so they can be understood.

Going to have to think about this some. I'm beginning to think I must have fucking assburgers or something. The whole concept makes no fucking sense to me but, now that I think about it, I've seen it a million times and it just never registered.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, had a guy relate an incident to me with the express purpose of conveying how it made him feel. I've never, to the best of my knowledge, related an incident to someone with the express purpose of conveying how it made me feel.

Now that I'm thinking about this, tho, I'm pretty sure my GF does this all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of women do. I'm not imagining this? Women actually tell me stories and the sole purpose in telling me is so that I will know how it made them feel?

That's fucking ridiculous. Why the fuck would someone do something like that?

holy fuck! If this is a real thing then it's a total game changer 

Uh, yeah dude. It's a real thing. Many people, especially women, communicate with the intent of conveying emotion, so they can be understood.

Going to have to think about this some. I'm beginning to think I must have fucking assburgers or something. The whole concept makes no fucking sense to me but, now that I think about it, I've seen it a million times and it just never registered.

This is starting to remind me of those Star Trek episodes where Spock or Data try to get their minds around emotional stuff. 

ETA: You don't have assburgers. Or android brains, or Vulcan ones. People who are dumping feelings probably need to clarify that sometimes.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I get feelings. I'm not like a robot or spock or some shit. I see someone who's obviously fucking pissed off about something, I'll be all like "What's up" and they tell me that someone did something shitty at work or their cat's dead or something and I'll be all sympathetic and shit, like genuinely sympathetic, not like I have to simulate it and, if they want advice I'll give em anything I can come up with and, yeah, sometimes I'll be the asshole that gives unsolicited advice. But if you're telling me the only reason they told me the cat story is so's I'd know they were feeling down, that's retarded. Their face told me that - it's why I asked in the first place.

And why the fuck would you feel the need to tell someone how some shit made you feel is beyond me. Feelings are personal, they're what you feel. Why tell someone who, in all probability, would feel completely differently in the same situation? What's in it for either party?

[Verbal Mike]

Pent, I think what you're starting to see there is a way in which the differences in how boys and girls are socialized result in seriously different understandings of communication. (All of it being a tendency, though, not an absolute.) What you're channeling right now is what seems to me a very dudeish understanding of communication, one which totally makes sense to me as a guy, but clearly isn't the same understanding everyone has, and apparently women specifically tend to see it differently.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I get feelings. I'm not like a robot or spock or some shit. I see someone who's obviously fucking pissed off about something, I'll be all like "What's up" and they tell me that someone did something shitty at work or their cat's dead or something and I'll be all sympathetic and shit, like genuinely sympathetic, not like I have to simulate it and, if they want advice I'll give em anything I can come up with and, yeah, sometimes I'll be the asshole that gives unsolicited advice. But if you're telling me the only reason they told me the cat story is so's I'd know they were feeling down, that's retarded. Their face told me that - it's why I asked in the first place.

And why the fuck would you feel the need to tell someone how some shit made you feel is beyond me. Feelings are personal, they're what you feel. Why tell someone who, in all probability, would feel completely differently in the same situation? What's in it for either party?

Actually, I seldom do. Shitty people use things like that and good people don't need to be saddled with it.

This fread was bolloxed a long time ago.