People who don't like children

[AFK]

Obviously, doing what I do, I like children.  My own, of course, are awesome, but I've always liked children and from a very early nage knew I would want to have children and a family.  And for me, children are reminders of the happy, silly joy of "Nonsense as Salvation". 


One of my goals as a parent is to help provide them a life that protects that as long as possible.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Babies under three months aren't really people. Once they can start to interact it gets better.

I've heard sentiments like this before and in my opinion it's kind of a fucked-up thing to say, because it's basically the position that people who are unable to interact aren't really people. I mean, think about it.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Babies under three months aren't really people. Once they can start to interact it gets better.

I've heard sentiments like this before and in my opinion it's kind of a fucked-up thing to say, because it's basically the position that people who are unable to interact aren't really people. I mean, think about it.

I can see where you're coming from, and I don't mean that people who are in a "locked in" type scenario aren't people or anything like that, but I think someone who's in a persistent vegetative state isn't really a person anymore, either. Which, in my head, is a separate thing from being human, for some reason... and this is uncomfortable thinking about, so I should probably spend some time sitting in it.

I dunno, I don't hate babies but I can really only enjoy them on the same level as a bunny or something. Spending time with a kid or a toddler that's still very much not an adult but is able to interact and think interesting thoughts is a whole different thing and in my mind way better.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

According to the logic you seem to be using, if you took Stephen Hawking's machines away he wouldn't really be a person anymore. That may not be what you're trying to say.

Babies aren't in a vegetative state, their inputs are simply completely disorganized and they have not yet learned how to interpret stimuli into making sense.

It is understandable that you don't find infants as enjoyable to interact with... they really aren't, in my opinion, as fun as older kids... but I do really object to what seems to still be a fairly widespread idea that they aren't really people because they can't communicate.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I was thinking about Hawking specifically when I was trying to put together a response. I think the point in my head was that he can think organized thoughts, he has a sense of self and desires and fantasies that are more complex than simple comfort/discomfort. Babies in those very early months aren't there yet, and that distinction of complex thoughts and sense of self is where my head puts that line between "person" and "not person."

This bias may be somewhat influenced by my experience with post-partum with the first kid, but even with the second one where the bonding went well right away he was still a baby-blob before transforming into a baby-person.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Do people who have had strokes cease to be people, until they recover, at which point they become people again? I just don't think it's a valid distinction. I would also argue that newborns do have a sense of self; in fact, it is all they do have, although they are incapable of articulating that. What they lack is a sense that the rest of the world is not their self.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I will concede the point that it's offensive. I don't think it's something I'll be able to shift at all, though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Fair enough.

[AFK]

Both of my kids had very distinct and noticeable personalities as babies.  They are much more than "baby-blobs". 

[Suu]

I've seen some pretty damn animated newborns.

I'm also going to out and fucking say it: Newborns are not cute. They look positively alien. Until they develop more and get out of the fryer chicken/Winston Churchill phase, I have a really hard time just saying, "Oh she's beautiful!/He's handsome!" when there's no real discerning features yet.

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

I don't like babies at all.
They make me uncomfortable and cringy.
A friend of mine has a 1 yr old or something and though she's really cute, still makes me nervous.
I didn't even know what to do with mine. I'm kind of glad on the inside that he's grown up now.

Kind of a shit thing to say but... fuck it.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

babies are cool, I'm not a person that wants kids but the OMG INFO OVERLOAD face they make is a beautiful and wondrous thing. They are very boring past that, and get much much cooler as they get to the smiling and sitting up phase, and it gets more awesome after that. Holding babies intimidates me for fear of doing it wrong and injuring a kid but they do love a large boobed person and apparently my chest has a calming effect on infants. I get more comfortable once they can support their own head and it's stopped being all soft and stuff, and once they start talking they crack me up. (my friend Jenny's babba is 2 and cute, blonde and actually quite self assured and funny.)

the loud volumes they emit like the screeching is bothersome, but I don't begrudge babies and toddlers crying at all because they can't tell you what is wrong yet. If I had to sit in my own waste and need someone else to sort that out for me, to rely on someone to feed me, make me comfy and unable to use words to pinpoint my needs I'd be fucking cranky too.

teenagers and screeching older kids bug me, but not as much as the adults at functions whose kids run around and the hosts that failed to make some way of keeping me from tripping over the (and i say this affectionately)noisy little  bastards by keeping them amused.

[Junkenstein]

It has been stewing in the back of my brain for some time now that there is something interesting going on with people who dislike children. I'm not talking about people who are simply uncomfortable with kids, or don't know how to handle them, or who don't want kids of their own. I'm talking about people who express an arbitrary contempt and/or aversion towards all people below the age at which they are able to have articulate adult conversations.(1)

I wonder if it has something to do with self-loathing, with hating their own child selves, rooted in a lack of nurturing, love, and respect shown to them by adult figures in their lives; a sort of self-defensive move.(2) Perhaps their child-selves felt rejected, and to ease their cognitive dissonance and preserve a sense of worth, they unconsciously adapted by forming a belief that it is not that they were rejected because they, individually, were unlovable, but because children are not worth loving.(3) Almost unvaryingly, these same people fail to express liking, compassion, or respect for their own child-selves.(4)

I can't seem to find any research on this, wondering if it's something I should explore at some point.

Strangely, I've been considering something similar as well. Disclaimer - I neither like, trust or want children. The following is an attempt to explain some of that.

1 - I have a strong aversion to younger children, particularly on the basis that I know I will probably not be able to communicate effectively with them. I lack the patience. As frustration builds on both sides, I can't help but blame myself (I'm the adult) for both of our failings. I'm at fault because I can't make myself understood. While I consciously know they are not at fault for being unable to articulate things, I still struggle to maintain my veener of calm. I've probably taken the avoidance role in part to avoid upsetting children and their associated parents.

Another aspect of this, is that I have no idea what an appropriate age is for information. Obviously discussing dildos with a 5 year old is not cool, but is it OK to talk about politics with an 8 year old? How about Scientology with a 9 year old (One of the few conversations I recall going well, the kids was pretty advanced and seemed to get that it was insane). I don't want to "talk down" to kids (more on that shortly) so as a result I end up engaging them in "adult" topics and it goes badly, mostly.


2 - As a child I was made very aware of the ages where my opinion would actually matter. These were 12,15,16,18 and 21. While these ages carried several legal responsibilities (or could, if inclined) the treatment you got was largely based solely on your physical age. This caused numerous problems throughout my younger years where I was interested in "more mature" subjects and activities and restricted from enjoying them based solely on my age. This probably ties into my first point to a degree as it constantly infuriated me having to explain simple wants that are then denied based around my age. This became more frustrating as things were magically permitted in a matter of weeks or months due to a new date of the calendar. My disdain for this practice has actually become pretty severe. I can't recall the last birthday I celebrated, I suspect it was my 18th.

3 - This is where I start to struggle. I do not have a favourable view of my child-self. Invariably it's easier to recall negative memories rather than positive ones. There is some dissonance here because I am quite aware that my childhood was hardly deprived and I certainly support and nurturing. What I suspect is more the problem here is that the support I wanted was not the support I got. I'd suspect this to be in part from my inability to communicate and partly from "Adults know what is best" mindset. It's tricky to judge this in hindsight.

4- When considering my childhood self, I can fairly safely say I neither liked or respected myself. As I've aged, I still struggle to have much compassion for me. I was quite aware of childhood being a transitory process and tried to speed it up as much as possible. It frequently felt like all the GOOD SHIT was just another X months away so there was more time trapped waiting than doing. I can't consider that in a good light. I'm also quite concious of how much time I WASTED as a child. Literally wasted. I consider that a minor positive however as I'm considerably more motivated to do shit today.

Additionally, there are constant questions and assumptions regarding children and Junkenwife. These can and do come from immediate family to total fucking strangers. This seems to have put me into something of a negative reinforcement loop as I've noticed my replies getting more blunt over the years.

I hope there's something in that that's useful, I'd be interested to see what conclusions you come to.

[LMNO]

I had a good childhood, in terms of parents and privilege.  The social scene was pretty generally shitty, but nowhere close to "fearing for my life and/or grevious bodily harm".  So: didn't hate my childhood.

However, I've noticed this topic has made me uncomfortable. So, I thought about it.  Preliminary considerations:

I don't like humans (people) who bother me.  This includes:
-People who scream because they're hungry.
-People who scream because they're in an unfamiliar environment.
-People who scream when they're on an airplane and the air pressure changes.
-People who scream in a quiet restaurant*.
etc.

I don't like humans who interrupt me when I'm concentrating on something simply because they're bored.

I don't like humans who wander out into traffic with no consideration of the consequences, especially when its in front of my car.

I'm not saying it's only kids who do this, mind you, and I've tried to make sure I haven't said that.

Yes, I know this seems very self-centered and selfish.  But I didn't say I was trying to present myself in the best light, I'm trying to figure out my discomfort.

In addition:
-I don't like people who feel they deserve special consideration or advantage, simply because of who they are or what they've done with their bodies.
-I don't like people who single-mindedly obsess about a subject that only affects them personally, with no regard to whether their peer group is also interested.
-I don't like people who feel that my behavior must change because they don't approve of it when certain other people are within earshot/sightline.

Again, I'm not saying it's only parents who do this, nor am I saying all parents do this.  I just don't really like those kinds of people.

Finally, to put this in perspective, only a few people I know personally have had children, and I haven't spend much time in the homes of those that have.  This would skew my experience of children towards the above scenarios (i.e. bothering me).




Look, I know that the above makes me out to be a dick.  And I'll probably get a lot of shit from people who have been parents.  I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying this is my point of view.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

-People who scream in a quiet restaurant*.
etc.