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OPEN BAR: it rubs the lotion on the skin or it gets the hose again

Started by Salty, February 02, 2014, 03:49:04 AM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Richter on February 15, 2014, 04:22:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Well, live the life you have left, I suppose. 



And welcome back.  I'm glad you're not blind.

So am I.  However, having had my vision tested, it has degraded more than I thought, and I'm getting glasses in 2 weeks.  Glad you're back, did you get to pass on the bell's palsy at least?


Don't ever get old.

Also, the neuralgia will last far longer.  I feel like I have sand under my left eye lid, and it will come and go more or less for the rest of my life.

Shingles is one of God's nastier jokes.

Holy Hell - you're not trying to fill out some sort of HORRILBE AFFLICTION bingo are you?  Glad you did not turn into Odin, and sounds like you've missed the bell's palsy

GIVE ME TIME.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:21:16 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Well, live the life you have left, I suppose. 



And welcome back.  I'm glad you're not blind.

So am I.  However, having had my vision tested, it has degraded more than I thought, and I'm getting glasses in 2 weeks.

Don't ever get old.

Also, the neuralgia will last far longer.  I feel like I have sand under my left eye lid, and it will come and go more or less for the rest of my life.

Shingles is one of God's nastier jokes.

I am so sorry to hear that the sandy shit ain't gonna go away!

This is really the first time you have ever had glasses??? Whoa. I've had 'em since I was 21 and all of my kids wear them.

Also, I will tell this story to all those assholes who think they shouldn't vaccinate their kids against chicken pox.

Yeah, if I hadn't got pumped full of antivirals right away, I'd have lost the eye.  The primary formations (can't remember their name) had formed, but I was treated before any dendrites formed.  Because I have good insurance.

So anyone who thinks health insurance can't be handled universally can kiss my ass.  If I wasn't lucky, I wouldn't have this job.  If I didn't have this job and the insurance that goes along with it, I'd have never been able to afford the antivirals (damn near $150/day for 7 days if I had to pay for them).  Then I'd have one eye.

I am now going to go fuck with teabaggers, come to think of it.

Seriously. I have been telling my housemates to fucking apply for OHP, and when they've been all "Oh, but I've never been on Welfare!" I'm like, listen, dude. You want to know what will cost taxpayers more than getting you some goddamn basic dental care? DYING OF AN ABCESS.

Also, dude roommate is a fucking production manager at a small company that pays taxes, but can't afford to pay for insurance for its employees. I've been in the same boat. The US penalizes small businesses for existing already... what's going to happen if the production manager can't work? They're fucked. It's not welfare, it's fucking social insurance, use it motherfucker. And be grateful Oregon offers it.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:29:35 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:21:16 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Well, live the life you have left, I suppose. 



And welcome back.  I'm glad you're not blind.

So am I.  However, having had my vision tested, it has degraded more than I thought, and I'm getting glasses in 2 weeks.

Don't ever get old.

Also, the neuralgia will last far longer.  I feel like I have sand under my left eye lid, and it will come and go more or less for the rest of my life.

Shingles is one of God's nastier jokes.

I am so sorry to hear that the sandy shit ain't gonna go away!

This is really the first time you have ever had glasses??? Whoa. I've had 'em since I was 21 and all of my kids wear them.

Also, I will tell this story to all those assholes who think they shouldn't vaccinate their kids against chicken pox.

Yeah, if I hadn't got pumped full of antivirals right away, I'd have lost the eye.  The primary formations (can't remember their name) had formed, but I was treated before any dendrites formed.  Because I have good insurance.

So anyone who thinks health insurance can't be handled universally can kiss my ass.  If I wasn't lucky, I wouldn't have this job.  If I didn't have this job and the insurance that goes along with it, I'd have never been able to afford the antivirals (damn near $150/day for 7 days if I had to pay for them).  Then I'd have one eye.

I am now going to go fuck with teabaggers, come to think of it.

Seriously. I have been telling my housemates to fucking apply for OHP, and when they've been all "Oh, but I've never been on Welfare!" I'm like, listen, dude. You want to know what will cost taxpayers more than getting you some goddamn basic dental care? DYING OF AN ABCESS.

Also, dude roommate is a fucking production manager at a small company that pays taxes, but can't afford to pay for insurance for its employees. I've been in the same boat. The US penalizes small businesses for existing already... what's going to happen if the production manager can't work? They're fucked. It's not welfare, it's fucking social insurance, use it motherfucker. And be grateful Oregon offers it.

The shit is there for a reason.  To be used

I don't mind my taxes going to food stamps and stuff like OHP.  If my tax dollars weren't going there, they'd just find a way to give it to Goldman Sachs.  I'd rather it was used to fund programs that are in the PUBLIC welfare, just like it says in article I, sec 8, clause 1 of some old hemp document written by hippies a couple of hundred years ago.  Schools, medical care, food, roads, that sort of shit.

A close brush with blindness has done two things:

1.  Made me once again get a glimpse of what privilege is, and
2.  Made me hate libertarianism even more than I did before.

Rage rage,
DOUR
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:23:25 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:14:39 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 14, 2014, 06:06:15 PM
When you're in the context you're in, it becomes far too easy to do.


PS- Number 5 made me LOL.

It does. But then also, today after posting that I went to lab, and after lab I ran into a girl I took public speaking class with. This girl is awesome, very interested in health, and is one of the kindest hearts I've ever met, but she has a really hard time with math and science because her analytical thinking skills are not very strong. And she knows it... she talks about how she's "dumb" and when she says that, looking at her sweet kind interested face it makes me want to cry, because she's NOT DUMB. She's an awesome person. I really like her, a lot. And falling for that particular brand of elitism would require me to place her in a class below my own, intellectually, and that is PURE BULLSHIT. Because she wants to learn, she loves learning, she is in school because even though she has always found learning analytical subjects hard she really, really wants to do it. She has taken a lot of classes twice. Am I seriously going to look down on her because she has a harder time solving puzzles than I do? You know, fuck that, no fucking way! And the thing is, there are a lot of people who haven't even had the exposure she's had to critical thinking, for whom it doesn't come naturally, who have been condescended to and shoved aside instead of having anyone say look, here's the thing, it's not that you're wrong it's that I wonder if you've ever had anyone explain this thing to you this way.

And then I think, shit, I have been an asshole so many times in my life to someone who wasn't stupid but just hadn't been in a situation where learning could happen. And I have probably been an asshole today. And I will probably also be an asshole tomorrow. But maybe what I need to do to learn is be less of an asshole and not look down on people just because their problem-solving aptitude isn't very good.

Which is hard, and I totally fucking admit that I am not that good at it.

I'm starting to get the feeling I need to do more of this.  I have to admit, I've been a smug intellectual longer than I care to admit, longer even than when I realized I was doing it wrong.

And I've been wrong.  So many, many times.

"Be less of an asshole."  I like that.  Hard to do.  But I want to try.

It's incredibly hard. And that's part of the thing I think I need to think and write about. Because reality is, some people are smarter than others, in terms of analytical, problem-solving thinking. And when we fall into a particular range of analytical problem-solvers, we tend to surround ourselves with other analytical problem-solvers who fall into a similar range. The particular range I, and I think many of the people on PD fall into, are people who are logically proficient, yet not dependent on an idealized logical view; in other words, capable of taking illogical human nature into account, while still remaining analytical and logical and not assuming an ideal situation could ever actually manifest. Ook ook, and all that. Realizing that human feels complicate logic.

But actually dealing with people who are not as proficient at logic can be incredibly frustrating, and it's easy to simply dismiss BOTH people who are less proficient with calculating logic AND people who are less proficient with calculating feelings as being "dumb". And therein, really, lies a quandary.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:34:31 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:29:35 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:21:16 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Well, live the life you have left, I suppose. 



And welcome back.  I'm glad you're not blind.

So am I.  However, having had my vision tested, it has degraded more than I thought, and I'm getting glasses in 2 weeks.

Don't ever get old.

Also, the neuralgia will last far longer.  I feel like I have sand under my left eye lid, and it will come and go more or less for the rest of my life.

Shingles is one of God's nastier jokes.

I am so sorry to hear that the sandy shit ain't gonna go away!

This is really the first time you have ever had glasses??? Whoa. I've had 'em since I was 21 and all of my kids wear them.

Also, I will tell this story to all those assholes who think they shouldn't vaccinate their kids against chicken pox.

Yeah, if I hadn't got pumped full of antivirals right away, I'd have lost the eye.  The primary formations (can't remember their name) had formed, but I was treated before any dendrites formed.  Because I have good insurance.

So anyone who thinks health insurance can't be handled universally can kiss my ass.  If I wasn't lucky, I wouldn't have this job.  If I didn't have this job and the insurance that goes along with it, I'd have never been able to afford the antivirals (damn near $150/day for 7 days if I had to pay for them).  Then I'd have one eye.

I am now going to go fuck with teabaggers, come to think of it.

Seriously. I have been telling my housemates to fucking apply for OHP, and when they've been all "Oh, but I've never been on Welfare!" I'm like, listen, dude. You want to know what will cost taxpayers more than getting you some goddamn basic dental care? DYING OF AN ABCESS.

Also, dude roommate is a fucking production manager at a small company that pays taxes, but can't afford to pay for insurance for its employees. I've been in the same boat. The US penalizes small businesses for existing already... what's going to happen if the production manager can't work? They're fucked. It's not welfare, it's fucking social insurance, use it motherfucker. And be grateful Oregon offers it.

The shit is there for a reason.  To be used

I don't mind my taxes going to food stamps and stuff like OHP.  If my tax dollars weren't going there, they'd just find a way to give it to Goldman Sachs.  I'd rather it was used to fund programs that are in the PUBLIC welfare, just like it says in article I, sec 8, clause 1 of some old hemp document written by hippies a couple of hundred years ago.  Schools, medical care, food, roads, that sort of shit.

A close brush with blindness has done two things:

1.  Made me once again get a glimpse of what privilege is, and
2.  Made me hate libertarianism even more than I did before.

Rage rage,
DOUR

LET THAT RAGE BURN.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:34:31 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:29:35 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:21:16 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:07:38 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Well, live the life you have left, I suppose. 



And welcome back.  I'm glad you're not blind.

So am I.  However, having had my vision tested, it has degraded more than I thought, and I'm getting glasses in 2 weeks.

Don't ever get old.

Also, the neuralgia will last far longer.  I feel like I have sand under my left eye lid, and it will come and go more or less for the rest of my life.

Shingles is one of God's nastier jokes.

I am so sorry to hear that the sandy shit ain't gonna go away!

This is really the first time you have ever had glasses??? Whoa. I've had 'em since I was 21 and all of my kids wear them.

Also, I will tell this story to all those assholes who think they shouldn't vaccinate their kids against chicken pox.

Yeah, if I hadn't got pumped full of antivirals right away, I'd have lost the eye.  The primary formations (can't remember their name) had formed, but I was treated before any dendrites formed.  Because I have good insurance.

So anyone who thinks health insurance can't be handled universally can kiss my ass.  If I wasn't lucky, I wouldn't have this job.  If I didn't have this job and the insurance that goes along with it, I'd have never been able to afford the antivirals (damn near $150/day for 7 days if I had to pay for them).  Then I'd have one eye.

I am now going to go fuck with teabaggers, come to think of it.

Seriously. I have been telling my housemates to fucking apply for OHP, and when they've been all "Oh, but I've never been on Welfare!" I'm like, listen, dude. You want to know what will cost taxpayers more than getting you some goddamn basic dental care? DYING OF AN ABCESS.

Also, dude roommate is a fucking production manager at a small company that pays taxes, but can't afford to pay for insurance for its employees. I've been in the same boat. The US penalizes small businesses for existing already... what's going to happen if the production manager can't work? They're fucked. It's not welfare, it's fucking social insurance, use it motherfucker. And be grateful Oregon offers it.

The shit is there for a reason.  To be used

I don't mind my taxes going to food stamps and stuff like OHP.  If my tax dollars weren't going there, they'd just find a way to give it to Goldman Sachs.  I'd rather it was used to fund programs that are in the PUBLIC welfare, just like it says in article I, sec 8, clause 1 of some old hemp document written by hippies a couple of hundred years ago.  Schools, medical care, food, roads, that sort of shit.

A close brush with blindness has done two things:

1.  Made me once again get a glimpse of what privilege is, and
2.  Made me hate libertarianism even more than I did before.

Rage rage,
DOUR

Seriously, it pisses me off SO MUCH that for some reason America is not only unwilling to learn through theory or experiment, but also unwilling to learn through observation and OBVI-FUCKING-OUSNESS that a well-fed, healthy, well-paid populous LEADS TO PROSPERITY, I MEAN SERIOUSLY ARE WE ACTUALLY THAT STUPID? COME ON.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

America: "if we don't let poor people starve and die of preventable disease they ain't ever gonna larn to mak jerbs"

Countries in the 21'st century: "If we provide basic needs for all our residents they will prosper and be productive, bringing wealth to our nation".

OMG OMG OMG
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Seriously, it pisses me off SO MUCH that for some reason America is not only unwilling to learn through theory or experiment, but also unwilling to learn through observation and OBVI-FUCKING-OUSNESS that a well-fed, healthy, well-paid populous LEADS TO PROSPERITY, I MEAN SERIOUSLY ARE WE ACTUALLY THAT STUPID? COME ON.

There are people who have a vested interest in a poverty-stricken majority.  Those people can also afford massive advertising campaigns.  Poor people are a fungible resource, perfectly replaceable cogs.

Like we used to say in the army:  When viewed from above, the headstones at Arlington spell out "There's plenty more where these came from!"

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:50:49 AM
America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:49:13 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Seriously, it pisses me off SO MUCH that for some reason America is not only unwilling to learn through theory or experiment, but also unwilling to learn through observation and OBVI-FUCKING-OUSNESS that a well-fed, healthy, well-paid populous LEADS TO PROSPERITY, I MEAN SERIOUSLY ARE WE ACTUALLY THAT STUPID? COME ON.

There are people who have a vested interest in a poverty-stricken majority.  Those people can also afford massive advertising campaigns.  Poor people are a fungible resource, perfectly replaceable cogs.

Like we used to say in the army:  When viewed from above, the headstones at Arlington spell out "There's plenty more where these came from!"

The part that pisses me off is the part where enough Americans of the corporation-fodder variety BELIEVE THE BULLSHIT to perpetuate it.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:51:35 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:50:49 AM
America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:52:07 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:49:13 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Seriously, it pisses me off SO MUCH that for some reason America is not only unwilling to learn through theory or experiment, but also unwilling to learn through observation and OBVI-FUCKING-OUSNESS that a well-fed, healthy, well-paid populous LEADS TO PROSPERITY, I MEAN SERIOUSLY ARE WE ACTUALLY THAT STUPID? COME ON.

There are people who have a vested interest in a poverty-stricken majority.  Those people can also afford massive advertising campaigns.  Poor people are a fungible resource, perfectly replaceable cogs.

Like we used to say in the army:  When viewed from above, the headstones at Arlington spell out "There's plenty more where these came from!"

The part that pisses me off is the part where enough Americans of the corporation-fodder variety BELIEVE THE BULLSHIT to perpetuate it.

Well, it's drilled into them from birth.  "We're rugged individualists."
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:54:09 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:51:35 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:50:49 AM
America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:54:45 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:52:07 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on February 15, 2014, 04:49:13 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Volvulus Skin Sacs on February 15, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Seriously, it pisses me off SO MUCH that for some reason America is not only unwilling to learn through theory or experiment, but also unwilling to learn through observation and OBVI-FUCKING-OUSNESS that a well-fed, healthy, well-paid populous LEADS TO PROSPERITY, I MEAN SERIOUSLY ARE WE ACTUALLY THAT STUPID? COME ON.

There are people who have a vested interest in a poverty-stricken majority.  Those people can also afford massive advertising campaigns.  Poor people are a fungible resource, perfectly replaceable cogs.

Like we used to say in the army:  When viewed from above, the headstones at Arlington spell out "There's plenty more where these came from!"

The part that pisses me off is the part where enough Americans of the corporation-fodder variety BELIEVE THE BULLSHIT to perpetuate it.

Well, it's drilled into them from birth.  "We're rugged individualists."

Which is a hilarious meme when you consider how the nation was actually founded.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."