Since people don't like me posting my sigils in the pic thread usually (or just are kind of wtf about it), I decided to take someone's advice and make a separate thread. Anybody else who has sigils (or pictures that look like sigils, or mspaint scribbles, or whatever) can post them here so as not to junk up the pics thread.
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11hpsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/girrusig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11dingirsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11hbsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11kpsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11dblsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11lgsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11qzsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/portsig.jpg)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11tmtsig.png)
Sigils? :lulz:
I no longer do that. I am trying to make a logo thing, if you want to help.
I DON'T GET THIS AT ALL.
Nasturtiums,
Isn't hip enough or something.
Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 10, 2009, 08:11:44 PM
I DON'T GET THIS AT ALL.
Nasturtiums,
Isn't hip enough or something.
It's some kind of mahgjickqual stuff. Use it, and you'll be just as successful, sexy, and popular as Enki!
Just imagine being trapped in an elevator with Enki, Yatto, Lady Purple Eris, AND hirley0. Imagine what those conversations would be like.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on November 10, 2009, 08:14:46 PM
Just imagine being trapped in an elevator with Enki, Yatto, Lady Purple Eris, AND hirley0. Imagine what those conversations would be like.
I wouldn't know, because I'd tear off the control panel and lick the circuit.
Hirley excepted. I like him.
I've done some sigils. They worked fairly well. I'm just an amateur currently, but it seems that there's not much difference between magic and advertising.
How did you read me?
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
How did you read me?
As being a rationalist.
See? Even Rain Gods™ are wrong once in a while.
QuoteAs being a rationalist.
I can see myself coming across that way.
Quote from: R W H N on November 10, 2009, 08:14:46 PM
Just imagine being trapped in an elevator with Enki, Yatto, Lady Purple Eris, AND hirley0. Imagine what those conversations would be like.
When I am in an elevator, I tend to stare at the control panel until I reach my floor. I wouldn't be much trouble in one.
An IRC channel with me, Yatto, Purple Eris, and Hirley might be pretty crazy, though.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
QuoteAs being a rationalist.
I can see myself coming across that way.
Yeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 10, 2009, 08:40:44 PM
When I am in an elevator, I tend to stare at the control panel until I reach my floor. I wouldn't be much trouble in one.
I tend to fart as often and as loudly as possible.
Because, you know, I hate people.
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
That sounds about right.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
All Sigils do is waste paper/memory/meatspace. It's garbage, no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle" shit the fucking Pagans do.
PROTIP: Subliminals don't work. Neither do Sigils.
QuotePROTIP: Subliminals don't work. Neither do Sigils.
Mine worked.
Quote from: LMNO on November 10, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
I JUST MADE A SIGIL, AND IT'S TELLING ME SOMETHING...
...
...
AH, YES: "NO MATTER HOW THIN YOU SLICE IT, IT'S STILL BALONEY."
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:47:25 PM
QuotePROTIP: Subliminals don't work. Neither do Sigils.
Mine worked.
Then allow me to suggest that you not watch too much late night TV programming. Those commercials will fuck your shit up. You'll be up to your arse in Pocket Fishermen™.
I'm not trying to convince you they work, man. You believe whatever you want. I know mine worked, and that's just about it.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:49:56 PM
I'm not trying to convince you they work, man. You believe whatever you want. I know mine worked, and that's just about it.
You convinced yourself they worked for you.
Personally, I'm GLAD they don't work. My subconscious already has too much shit in it, and most of it is shit that is better off left alone. Shove more crap in, you never know what the fuck will pop out.
Fair enough. I'm young yet, so I've got a while before I need to worry about what the fuck coming out of my head.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:53:59 PM
Fair enough. I'm young yet, so I've got a while before I need to worry about what the fuck coming out of my head.
Yeah, well, us old-timers are all traumatized by post-35 sex. It's fucking disgusting, and it makes us all crazy as fuck. But we keep doing it, because it gives us something to do until we die.
Wow. :horrormirth: That made me shudder.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:57:14 PM
Wow. :horrormirth: That made me shudder.
It's worse than it sounds. Imagine two asthmatic and particularly hairy bears having a wrestling contest, with both of them making weird noises out of orifices that shouldn't make noise at all, while everything gets all sloppy and gross, and bits that shouldn't move flop all over the place. Fact is, it should be illegal for anyone over the age of 40 to have sex unless they do it in a sound-proof room and have proof of purchase of at least 3 canvass tarps and 200 feet of saran wrap. Plus, by this point, we all have some horrible disease or parasitic infestation, so you have these huge fucking syphilis worms the size of fucking PYTHONS crawling out of your ass, eating through the condom, and smashing your partner's chromosomes flat.
Your parents do this, mind you. Oh, yes.
How's your head now? This sigil thing working?
Slightly disturbing, but I've had worse. Bring it.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 09:05:29 PM
Slightly disturbing, but I've had worse. Bring it.
I don't have to. Age will do that all by itself. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
... no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle" ...*
HOLY CRAP TGRR! YOU JUST MADE THE MOST CORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT MAGIC I HAVE SEEN IN AGES! Crowley would weep with joy.
Invocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
* Not TGRR's Actual Comment http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21189.msg776961#msg776961 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21189.msg776961#msg776961)
QuoteInvocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
Exactly.
QuoteI don't have to. Age will do that all by itself. smile
Fair enough. Not much I can do about that one.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 09:10:42 PM
QuoteI don't have to. Age will do that all by itself. smile
Fair enough. Not much I can do about that one.
Let's see how calm you are about it in 20 years. :lol:
I'll probably do okay. I've never seen the problem with getting older. (oh shit)
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 10, 2009, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle"
HOLY CRAP TGRR! YOU JUST MADE THE MOST CORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT MAGIC I HAVE SEEN IN AGES! Crowley would weep with joy.
Invocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
Nice of you to crop my text like that.
Intellectual honesty: Try it sometime.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 09:17:18 PM
I'll probably do okay. I've never seen the problem with getting older. (oh shit)
Neither did I. :lulz:
Fair enough. We'll see how it goes.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 09:19:09 PM
Fair enough. We'll see how it goes.
Oki doki. But let me advise you to buy a wetsuit around age 35 or so.
And some earplugs.
Will do.
Dr. James Semaj the Paradoxical
Not easily disturbed
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 09:22:43 PM
Will do.
Dr. James Semaj the Paradoxical
Not easily disturbed
I didn't really expect the description to scar you (though I was kinda hoping). The reality will do the trick nicely, though.
PS: Also, make sure to stock up on Sham Wows, for afterward.
QuoteI didn't really expect the description to scar you
And yet you keep trying. Oh well, persistence is always a good thing.
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/030904monolithun6.jpg)
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 10, 2009, 09:28:49 PM
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/030904monolithun6.jpg)
You know what's funny, I can't see the pic you just posted, and I can still sense that it's full of fail.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:57:14 PM
Wow. :horrormirth: That made me shudder.
It's worse than it sounds. Imagine two asthmatic and particularly hairy bears having a wrestling contest, with both of them making weird noises out of orifices that shouldn't make noise at all, while everything gets all sloppy and gross, and bits that shouldn't move flop all over the place. Fact is, it should be illegal for anyone over the age of 40 to have sex unless they do it in a sound-proof room and have proof of purchase of at least 3 canvass tarps and 200 feet of saran wrap. Plus, by this point, we all have some horrible disease or parasitic infestation, so you have these huge fucking syphilis worms the size of fucking PYTHONS crawling out of your ass, eating through the condom, and smashing your partner's chromosomes flat.
Your parents do this, mind you. Oh, yes.
How's your head now? This sigil thing working?
:potd:
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 10, 2009, 10:14:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:57:14 PM
Wow. :horrormirth: That made me shudder.
It's worse than it sounds. Imagine two asthmatic and particularly hairy bears having a wrestling contest, with both of them making weird noises out of orifices that shouldn't make noise at all, while everything gets all sloppy and gross, and bits that shouldn't move flop all over the place. Fact is, it should be illegal for anyone over the age of 40 to have sex unless they do it in a sound-proof room and have proof of purchase of at least 3 canvass tarps and 200 feet of saran wrap. Plus, by this point, we all have some horrible disease or parasitic infestation, so you have these huge fucking syphilis worms the size of fucking PYTHONS crawling out of your ass, eating through the condom, and smashing your partner's chromosomes flat.
Your parents do this, mind you. Oh, yes.
How's your head now? This sigil thing working?
:potd:
8)
Quote from: LMNO on November 10, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
That's kind of how I use ritual and tarot. It's a useful tool to help quiet my mind and let things filter up to the surface.
Quote from: Nigel on November 10, 2009, 10:19:00 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 10, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
That's kind of how I use ritual and tarot. It's a useful tool to help quiet my mind and let things filter up to the surface.
Me too. For some reason, a lot of the time I DON'T know what the hell I think of something until I've talked about it with people... then I get prickly about certain aspects of the talk, and know how I feel...
If I'm by myself, though, a tarot reading works wonders. I can't see how my tarot reading would work on someone else though. Or sigils for that matter.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
PROTIP: Subliminals don't work. Neither do Sigils.
they do but only in so far as reassuring yourself that you want something. Tarot cards, sigils, swinging a pendulum is basically just an act to make you feel assertive about the outcome you think you want.
People can do whatever they want to try and manipulate their subconscious mind.
Quote from: Z³ on November 11, 2009, 12:08:01 AM
People can do whatever they want to try and manipulate their subconscious mind.
you are now thinking of her.
Quote from: Hoopla on November 10, 2009, 10:46:56 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 10, 2009, 10:19:00 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 10, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
That's kind of how I use ritual and tarot. It's a useful tool to help quiet my mind and let things filter up to the surface.
Me too. For some reason, a lot of the time I DON'T know what the hell I think of something until I've talked about it with people... then I get prickly about certain aspects of the talk, and know how I feel...
If I'm by myself, though, a tarot reading works wonders. I can't see how my tarot reading would work on someone else though. Or sigils for that matter.
I prefer bibliomancy, myself. Write a program to spit out a random series of words that seem like they might make sense, and then assume a meaning. Less baggage than tarot -- but I never really learned the tarot baggage.
I have done tarot-style readings with collectible card game cards (netrunner mostly).
Quote from: LMNO on November 10, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
That's called "Self-Hypnosis", isn't it?
Also, if I understand the Pagospags, a "charged" sigil should work even if you don't know what it is. From what I'm getting from you, you're using it as a way of tricking your Thinker/Prover mechanism.
A "charged" sigil works better if you don't remember what it is.
On the other hand that doesn't mean you don't know what it is, you have to know on a subconcious level so it can connect properly, but if your conscious is out of the way it's going to interface more successfully.
QuoteA "charged" sigil works better if you don't remember what it is.
That's the problem I've had so far with my sigils. They seemed to work eventually, but it took longer than I thought it would.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 01:16:01 AM
QuoteA "charged" sigil works better if you don't remember what it is.
That's the problem I've had so far with my sigils. They seemed to work eventually, but it took longer than I thought it would.
I don't do much sigilmancy.
The advice I found in Liber Null though was to make a LOT of sigils, that way there are too many for you to remember which one is tied to which desire.
god what pretentious terminology.
Quotegod what pretentious terminology.
We didn't do it.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 01:43:27 AM
Quotegod what pretentious terminology.
We didn't do it.
you are perpetuating that dogmatic meaningless but ohhhh so DEEP AND MYSTERIOUS occultism that renders the psychology of this stuff inaccessible and useless to everyone who isn't into that obnoxious vanity wankfest.
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 11, 2009, 02:12:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 01:43:27 AM
Quotegod what pretentious terminology.
We didn't do it.
you are perpetuating that dogmatic meaningless but ohhhh so DEEP AND MYSTERIOUS occultism that renders the psychology of this stuff inaccessible and useless to everyone who isn't into that obnoxious vanity wankfest.
Yes. Thank you.
I've been trying to figure out the practical methods of psychosomatics and somatopsychics for years now, and the occult, IOW the /hiding/ of the real thing going on with "mystic" systems rather than working on overall theory using simple terms makes it far more difficult to figure out what is useful and what is bullshit.
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 11, 2009, 01:21:42 AM
god what pretentious terminology.
Pretentious terminology gets you in the right mindset. If you don't like the vocabulary provided feel free to make up your own. That's even better actually, because then it is so esoteric and secret only you know it.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Quoteyou are perpetuating that dogmatic meaningless but ohhhh so DEEP AND MYSTERIOUS occultism that renders the psychology of this stuff inaccessible and useless to everyone who isn't into that obnoxious vanity wankfest.
Okay. Find some easier terminology.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
"Sigilmancy"?
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
Wait til they start bitching about gout.
Allow me to reiterate: "Sigilmancy".
:lulz:
FTR, the suffix 'mancy' means to divine..a sigil isn't divination or prophecy. One doesn't interpret sigils in a way to divine the future--at least in the way BH put it.
Sorry to be pedantic but, I mean this is OCCULT stuff and the terminology is already a pronged stick up the arse.
Quote from: Burns on November 11, 2009, 04:42:29 AM
FTR, the suffix 'mancy' means to divine..a sigil isn't divination or prophecy. One doesn't interpret sigils in a way to divine the future--at least in the way BH put it.
Sorry to be pedantic but, I mean this is OCCULT stuff and the terminology is already a pronged stick up the arse.
This thread is better than MW and TCC rolled into one.
:lulz:
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 04:50:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:15:41 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on November 11, 2009, 04:10:25 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:09:34 AM
Allow me to reiterate: "Sigilmancy".
:lulz:
Eeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww!
You can't make shit like this up. :lulz:
You can if you're me.
Um, yeah, dude. You go. :lulz:
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 02:48:16 AM
Quoteyou are perpetuating that dogmatic meaningless but ohhhh so DEEP AND MYSTERIOUS occultism that renders the psychology of this stuff inaccessible and useless to everyone who isn't into that obnoxious vanity wankfest.
Okay. Find some easier terminology.
Ok, first off sigilmancy:
The Placebo effect and other stories.
I love how occult detractors always mention the placebo effect as if it dismisses the whole thing. Thing is any serious occultist will agree with you. We know it's the placebo effect - that's why it works! It's like looking at a car and saying "Ah but that's just the internal combustion engine doing that - the car isn't actually moving"
Now STFU or I'll turn the lot of you into fucking newts! :rpger:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 10:04:01 AM
I love how occult detractors always mention the placebo effect as if it dismisses the whole thing. Thing is any serious occultist will agree with you. We know it's the placebo effect - that's why it works! It's like looking at a car and saying "Ah but that's just the internal combustion engine doing that - the car isn't actually moving"
Now STFU or I'll turn the lot of you into fucking newts! :rpger:
BRING IT ON
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 10:04:01 AM
I love how occult detractors always mention the placebo effect as if it dismisses the whole thing. Thing is any serious occultist will agree with you. We know it's the placebo effect - that's why it works! It's like looking at a car and saying "Ah but that's just the internal combustion engine doing that - the car isn't actually moving"
Now STFU or I'll turn the lot of you into fucking newts! :rpger:
If you read back you would see thats NOT what I am doing. I'm trying to extract a very real and power mental tool from shitty circlejerk dogma. I'm pretty certain that the placebo effect is the name given to the manifestation of possibly the most overlooked and useful healing tool there is.
Now STFU or read the entire context instead of picking out a word
I was pretty clear on where you were coming from actually. Just backing up your point. The STFU wasn't directed at you but the rest of the thread in general. Just a setup to the "turning everyone into newts" gag, really. I totally agree with you - both the terms "placebo" and "all in your imagination" are hints at the most powerful psychological mechanisms we have at our disposal. And people will use them to dismiss. It really is funny as fuck and it's all the asspipes who think they can turn people into newts or control teh weather that made it all possible. :lulz:
Quote from: BAI on November 11, 2009, 12:48:09 PM
QuoteIt really is funny as fuck and it's all the asspipes who think they can turn people into newts or control teh weather that made it all possible.
back in the height of summer, when everyone was freaking out about the grape harvest drying out, they got a big bunch of the local tribes together and did a rain dance.
strangely enough it fucking pissed down the next day. then went directly back to scorching. :foil:
Psych.
Playing the devils advocate in support of occulty terminology:
Much of the occulty terminology predates the psychology terminology referring to the same thing, and some of that which does not is still geared towards people who don't know the psychology terminology. Having a set of jargon that refers to the same thing as another group's entirely different set of jargon is not a phenomenon limited to the occult -- unless you want to be super-literal about etymology and define anything with a weird set of terminology as occult because the terminology hides the meaning (in which case, chemistry is pretty damned occult).
If you know the psychological terminology and you know the occult terminologies, you can generally translate -- a lot of the stuff is one-to-one or almost one-to-one. PD has its own occult terminology -- the Law of Fives doesn't refer precisely to confirmation bias, but to a combination of confirmation bias, placebo effect, and several other things (by the separation used in psychology terminology), though it's only ONE thing by RAW's version of the thinker-prover model; in magic, it is split up even more than in psychology, but it's split up differently.
Additionally, there is some validity to having an entirely different terminology set for 'magic' than for psychology. Mathematical notation is very different from most programming languages, despite the fact that typically most of the same things are represented, because while math is descriptive programming is active -- programming is applied mathematics, and applied things have different concerns than non-applied things. 'Magic' is not psychology, per-se, but applied psychology (applied in a fundamentally different way than a therapist would apply it -- though Jungian therapy might be closer).
I'm not going to get back into the old and boring discussion about whether or not magic is real or whether or not magic is stupid.
If I had to choose a flavor of occult beverage, I much prefer the newer stuff. Sigilization, automatic writing, egregores, servitors, that kind of crap is NEW. It's not part of an aleister crowley personality cult, and it's not old world reconstructionism.
Wiccans are so fucking concerned with the "historical roots" of their practice that they forget they're in a religion from the 1960s. I just got into an argument with someone who thought that angelology had no place in wicca, because angels have hebrew /abrahamic roots and not celtic roots. I found this totally laughable - your religion was assembled by someone trying to do Crowley's act, but didn't have the balls to take it to the finish line. (I think Gerald Gardner is basically one part crowley, one part ivan stang - he's a mystic / huckster) Wicca is a random pastiche of stuff which
sounds like prechristian witchcraft. Who the fuck cares if some of your beliefs came from a different part of the world than your other beliefs? Are Older beliefs more valid? why does that matter in any way?
Austin Osman Spare, Phil Hine, & Peter Carroll decided that the occult should be something other than trying to replicate the superstitions of prescientific people. So they focused on coming up with new techniques - stuff which would later be better understood in the context of psychology and marketing.
If there's any real magic in this world, I think it's the wizardry done by marketers and politicians. They shape our reality in a really tangible way. At their root, sigilization and corporate brand management are very similar practices.
There's nothing supernatural about the idea of a collective intelligence. Corporate executives and H.R. managers have a keener understanding of egregores than most chaotes. These are just different models for understanding the same idea in different ways.
But the occult still has this old-world pointy hat connotation. When many people think of magic, they either think of Gandalf, or neckbeards and crystals. So let's get rid of that old terminology and focus on the important parts. Like the strange and startling level of influence that
symbolism has on our lives. We don't need the occult to understand these things.
once again, my view is best expressed by the Art of Memetics:
Quote...if magic is to continue to evolve; it has to evolve with the technology of the time, while also using that technology in ways that most people will probably never think of. The magician is a person who fits into any time, any space, and does so by choosing to take on the available tools and cultural mindsets and use them to achieve what s/he desires.
QuoteMagic was once a much larger field of study. Over the years most of the ideas that were once confined to magical theory and practice have been isolated and reformulated in different fields of study. Magicians are left guarding only a few nuggets of practical application that remains unique to magic. For the most part, interaction with essences generated from patterns, the manipulation of belief to alter subjective experiences, and non-local action of thought and will are all that remain solely under the banner of 'Magick' and even these few ideations are being carted away into other disciplines. So why not just study those other disciplines?
We feel there is still value in the study of magic; in particular the language system that has been built up dealing with subtle connections, forces, and objects of the psyche. We believe that with grounding in the theory and experience of causing the improbable to become possible, an individual becomes empowered to reverse-engineer the hyperreal world of post-modern discourse.
We believe that magic is much more than sleight of hand or sleight of mind, and know that what has been carted away into the sciences of harmonics, of chemistry, of quantum physics still haunts the spectral core of this abstraction labeled sorcery, magic, thaumaturgy, mojo, hoodoo... and in precisely the same way, magic haunts sciences, both hard and soft. One doesn't need to dig far to find elements of wizardry in neurolinguistic programming or psychology. We do not react directly to the world but rather the world as it is filtered by our nervous system's habits of punctuation. We break down the world according to what we expect to find, how we move indicates what is important to pay attention and what our word systems point out or hide. This is what Kenneth Burke refers to as the terministic screen, and is very similar to what Robert Anton Wilson meant when he discussed Reality Tunnels in his work Quantum Psychology
so like, tl;dr version;
I haven't done a "ritual" in years.
But I do consider postergasm a form of "magic", if that word even means anything.
*Cram puts on his robe and wizard hat*
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
I was pretty clear on where you were coming from actually. Just backing up your point. The STFU wasn't directed at you but the rest of the thread in general. Just a setup to the "turning everyone into newts" gag, really. I totally agree with you - both the terms "placebo" and "all in your imagination" are hints at the most powerful psychological mechanisms we have at our disposal. And people will use them to dismiss. It really is funny as fuck and it's all the asspipes who think they can turn people into newts or control teh weather that made it all possible. :lulz:
Kind of like science fiction vs. science fact. Science fiction will always be gradoise, impractical, but look cool as all FUCK, while science fact will be boring, methodical, but get shit DONE.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
it's all the asspipes who think they can turn people into newts or control teh weather that made it all possible. :lulz:
"not" those asspipes sit around masturbating and telling each other how cool they look madjique robes, while remaining virgins into there 40's
the people responsible for explaining,exploring and understanding the self transformational stuff (placebo effect) that you are really looking for tend to be a lot less lame than that..
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 10, 2009, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle"
HOLY CRAP TGRR! YOU JUST MADE THE MOST CORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT MAGIC I HAVE SEEN IN AGES! Crowley would weep with joy.
Invocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
Nice of you to crop my text like that.
Intellectual honesty: Try it sometime.
Right, because that was totally a deep and intellectual comment... rather than a NO YUO sort of thing. Because obviously discussing concepts like Magic with TGRR is a intellectual exercise, rather than TGRR spouting off.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:07:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 10, 2009, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle"
HOLY CRAP TGRR! YOU JUST MADE THE MOST CORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT MAGIC I HAVE SEEN IN AGES! Crowley would weep with joy.
Invocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
Nice of you to crop my text like that.
Intellectual honesty: Try it sometime.
Right, because that was totally a deep and intellectual comment... rather than a NO YUO sort of thing. Because obviously discussing concepts like Magic with TGRR is a intellectual exercise, rather than TGRR spouting off.
Translation: "I just got busted out altering someone else's text to make them agree with me, and now I'm rationalizing it."
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
I was pretty clear on where you were coming from actually. Just backing up your point. The STFU wasn't directed at you but the rest of the thread in general. Just a setup to the "turning everyone into newts" gag, really. I totally agree with you - both the terms "placebo" and "all in your imagination" are hints at the most powerful psychological mechanisms we have at our disposal. And people will use them to dismiss. It really is funny as fuck and it's all the asspipes who think they can turn people into newts or control teh weather that made it all possible. :lulz:
my mistake, I thought it was directed at me. sorry.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:07:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 10, 2009, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 10, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 10, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
QuoteYeah, but thanks for letting me know you fuck with that sigil bullshit. I'll be sure to take that into account in future conversations.
Meh. It's not that big a deal. All that sigils do is put a message into your subconscious. It's like using a subliminal message on yourself.
no different than tarot cards or that "casting a circle"
HOLY CRAP TGRR! YOU JUST MADE THE MOST CORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT MAGIC I HAVE SEEN IN AGES! Crowley would weep with joy.
Invocation, evocation, divination etc etc etc are all making use of the same basic tool, your own brain.
Nice of you to crop my text like that.
Intellectual honesty: Try it sometime.
Right, because that was totally a deep and intellectual comment... rather than a NO YUO sort of thing. Because obviously discussing concepts like Magic with TGRR is a intellectual exercise, rather than TGRR spouting off.
Translation: "I just got busted out altering someone else's text to make them agree with me, and now I'm rationalizing it."
Durrrr....
Yes, and the ALL CAPS didn't give you a clue that I meant it humorously? Are you really that pathetically paranoid?
I thought you would laugh or come back with a response, no0t assume I was trying to manipulate your words to make everyone think you said something. But, whatever... I apparently hate you and secretly try to make you look dumb. I'm also part of the Rothschild group and secretly have started putting stuff in your water. Don't worry though, its all setting you up so you can be the carrier for the secret alien DNA that we're going to seed the earth with and turn everyone into lizard aliens.
You've discovered my secret TGRR!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
Wait til they start bitching about gout.
Oh, it's already gotten ugly. Some of the non-twit glass bitches used the forbidden word, "hypochondriac", and now the hypochondriacs are screaming about how society invalidates their disease.
:lulz: Middle-aged ladies, dude. I swear to fucking god. They're EXACTLY like people who take sigils and tarot seriously.
I can't WAIT for the irritable bowel syndrome support thread.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 11, 2009, 10:04:01 AM
I love how occult detractors always mention the placebo effect as if it dismisses the whole thing. Thing is any serious occultist will agree with you. We know it's the placebo effect - that's why it works! It's like looking at a car and saying "Ah but that's just the internal combustion engine doing that - the car isn't actually moving"
Now STFU or I'll turn the lot of you into fucking newts! :rpger:
Let me tell you in exquisite detail all about my meditation practice, my drug use, and how I masturbate. Also how often I get laid by how many people, and what a pimp I am. Then I will BAWWWW when people relentlessly make fun of my posts.
Or wait, maybe I'll save it for a place and time where it won't get relentlessly made fun of.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:52:09 PM
I can't WAIT for the irritable bowel syndrome support thread.
Why wait? Make an alt. :lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
Wait til they start bitching about gout.
Oh, it's already gotten ugly. Some of the non-twit glass bitches used the forbidden word, "hypochondriac", and now the hypochondriacs are screaming about how society invalidates their disease.
:lulz: Middle-aged ladies, dude. I swear to fucking god. They're EXACTLY like people who take sigils and tarot seriously.
Tell them that's a good thing...If their disease hasn't been properly validated, it's by definition invalid, and should stop hurting.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 06:57:53 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
Wait til they start bitching about gout.
Oh, it's already gotten ugly. Some of the non-twit glass bitches used the forbidden word, "hypochondriac", and now the hypochondriacs are screaming about how society invalidates their disease.
:lulz: Middle-aged ladies, dude. I swear to fucking god. They're EXACTLY like people who take sigils and tarot seriously.
Tell them that's a good thing...If their disease hasn't been properly validated, it's by definition invalid, and should stop hurting.
:lulz:
I need an alt on the glass board.
All right. I'm going to throw out there one of the many things I love about Discordianism.
I was raised in a bastardized Native American tradition. I converted and was/have been a Wiccan of sorts for about 20 years. I still wear a pentagram, have an altar, etc etc. Nowadays I shy from the label "Wiccan" and prefer "Witch". Yes. Really. It's, if possible, even stupider than "Wiccan".
I read Tarot, do rituals, burn shit, dabble in vodou. I still have a deeply superstitious shamanistic side, sort of how people raised Catholic have a hard time shaking that whole sin concept. I see a fucking owl in daylight and my first thought isn't "Oh cute, an owl!" it's "Oh shit, is someone gonna die?"
I think Wicca, and Wiccans, are fucking stupid. All this shit is fucking stupid, and hilarious. I do it because it produces an altered mental state, much like drugs can, but it doesn't last as long as drugs and I'm a commitment-phobe.
That I think it's bullshit doesn't detract from my practice of magic at all. I don't mind that my belief that it's bullshit clashes with my belief that it's effective. What's a little metal discord?
Funny, that's what.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
All right. I'm going to throw out there one of the many things I love about Discordianism.
I was raised in a bastardized Native American tradition. I converted and was/have been a Wiccan of sorts for about 20 years. I still wear a pentagram, have an altar, etc etc. Nowadays I shy from the label "Wiccan" and prefer "Witch". Yes. Really. It's, if possible, even stupider than "Wiccan".
I read Tarot, do rituals, burn shit, dabble in vodou. I still have a deeply superstitious shamanistic side, sort of how people raised Catholic have a hard time shaking that whole sin concept. I see a fucking owl in daylight and my first thought isn't "Oh cute, an owl!" it's "Oh shit, is someone gonna die?"
I think Wicca, and Wiccans, are fucking stupid. All this shit is fucking stupid, and hilarious. I do it because it produces an altered mental state, much like drugs can, but it doesn't last as long as drugs and I'm a commitment-phobe.
That I think it's bullshit doesn't detract from my practice of magic at all. I don't mind that my belief that it's bullshit clashes with my belief that it's effective. What's a little metal discord?
Funny, that's what.
So Nigel, wanna energize some sigils together?
:lmnuendo:
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Let me tell you in exquisite detail all about my meditation practice, my drug use, and how I masturbate. Also how often I get laid by how many people, and what a pimp I am.
I wouldn't actually mind that.
Enki-2,
is about to be killed by curiousity
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 11, 2009, 07:16:01 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Let me tell you in exquisite detail all about my meditation practice, my drug use, and how I masturbate. Also how often I get laid by how many people, and what a pimp I am.
I wouldn't actually mind that.
Enki-2,
is about to be killed by curiousity
You should, you know, get out more.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
All right. I'm going to throw out there one of the many things I love about Discordianism.
I was raised in a bastardized Native American tradition. I converted and was/have been a Wiccan of sorts for about 20 years. I still wear a pentagram, have an altar, etc etc. Nowadays I shy from the label "Wiccan" and prefer "Witch". Yes. Really. It's, if possible, even stupider than "Wiccan".
I read Tarot, do rituals, burn shit, dabble in vodou. I still have a deeply superstitious shamanistic side, sort of how people raised Catholic have a hard time shaking that whole sin concept. I see a fucking owl in daylight and my first thought isn't "Oh cute, an owl!" it's "Oh shit, is someone gonna die?"
I think Wicca, and Wiccans, are fucking stupid. All this shit is fucking stupid, and hilarious. I do it because it produces an altered mental state, much like drugs can, but it doesn't last as long as drugs and I'm a commitment-phobe.
That I think it's bullshit doesn't detract from my practice of magic at all. I don't mind that my belief that it's bullshit clashes with my belief that it's effective. What's a little metal discord?
Funny, that's what.
So Nigel, wanna energize some sigils together?
:lmnuendo:
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 11, 2009, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Even though I burn candles and read Tarot and do other annoying occulty things, I still find the sigil thing especially irritating. Also, I don't have a thread for my tarot-reading, candle-burning, rootwork wankery.
I'll totally wank with you over tarot cards sometime.
I think the Empress is hawt.
(Actually I read cards semi-professionally, have worked both over the phone and at fairs, I just know better than to expect talking about it to go over very well on this board.)
Yeah.
Actually it kind of reminds me of how irritated I was earlier today to find that someone had started a fibromyalgia support thread over on the glass board. I fucking hate middle-aged ladies. Between that shit and the dieting threads there won't be any glass talk left at all pretty soon.
Wait til they start bitching about gout.
Oh, it's already gotten ugly. Some of the non-twit glass bitches used the forbidden word, "hypochondriac", and now the hypochondriacs are screaming about how society invalidates their disease.
:lulz: Middle-aged ladies, dude. I swear to fucking god. They're EXACTLY like people who take sigils and tarot seriously.
Yep, all my best customers are middle aged ladies.
I charged my death sigil with polonium 210, work real good now.
Hey, so did the Natives use Smoke Sigils back in the day?
There. Got it out of my system. I've been holding that one back for hours now. It was starting to hurt.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 07:39:06 PM
Hey, so did the Natives use Smoke Sigils back in the day?
There. Got it out of my system. I've been holding that one back for hours now. It was starting to hurt.
*groan*
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 07:39:06 PM
Hey, so did the Natives use Smoke Sigils back in the day?
There. Got it out of my system. I've been holding that one back for hours now. It was starting to hurt.
It still hurts. :argh!:
Hrmmm, I guess I've been inspired.
According to Peter Carroll, sigils can be described with his formula of magic.
M= (G*L/A*R)*P
Or the level of success (M) depends on the level of Gnosis (G) the 'estatic or trancelike state of mind" and the Magical Link (L) as modified by Conscious Awareness (C) and Subconscious Resistance (R) and the probability (p) that whatever you're trying to do is likely/possible
Now, the Magical Link in sigil magic is the sigil itself. It's designed to be a psychological link between the goal and the subconscious mind of the practitioner. Its designed to get past ther 'subconscious resistance' or the "psychic censor" that part of your brain that says "Ummm, you do realize that magic is a steaming pile of shit, right?".
Now, more interestingly, the 'Gnosis' is the process by which you distract your conscious awareness... high ritual (distraction), intoning chants, laughing wlidly for extended periods of time, sex (with someone or on your own).... AND (this is the inspired bit) HATE.
I think TGRR has found a useful tool here... can we use pure unadultrated HATESHIT to power a sigil... I think the answer may be yes... I shall have to experiment and report back.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 07:39:06 PM
Hey, so did the Natives use Smoke Sigils back in the day?
There. Got it out of my system. I've been holding that one back for hours now. It was starting to hurt.
:x
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 08:00:26 PM
According to Peter Carroll, sigils can be described with his formula of magic.
M= (G*L/A*R)*P
Or the level of success (M) depends on the level of Gnosis (G) the 'estatic or trancelike state of mind" and the Magical Link (L) as modified by Conscious Awareness (C) and Subconscious Resistance (R) and the probability (p) that whatever you're trying to do is likely/possible
Now, the Magical Link in sigil magic is the sigil itself. It's designed to be a psychological link between the goal and the subconscious mind of the practitioner. Its designed to get past ther 'subconscious resistance' or the "psychic censor" that part of your brain that says "Ummm, you do realize that magic is a steaming pile of shit, right?".
Interesting model for it, though part of me balks at mathematically describing thigns you can NEVER render into numbers. (Unless we want to assign nummerical values OVER 9000!!!)
Reducing the trappings out of it, if we replace Gnosis and Sigil with aptitude and focus, you can really describe performing any action with it.
Doing some things angry makes you sloppy, though. I think that would throw off G, or require a more elaborate consideration of P.
Quote from: Richter on November 11, 2009, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 08:00:26 PM
According to Peter Carroll, sigils can be described with his formula of magic.
M= (G*L/A*R)*P
Or the level of success (M) depends on the level of Gnosis (G) the 'estatic or trancelike state of mind" and the Magical Link (L) as modified by Conscious Awareness (C) and Subconscious Resistance (R) and the probability (p) that whatever you're trying to do is likely/possible
Now, the Magical Link in sigil magic is the sigil itself. It's designed to be a psychological link between the goal and the subconscious mind of the practitioner. Its designed to get past ther 'subconscious resistance' or the "psychic censor" that part of your brain that says "Ummm, you do realize that magic is a steaming pile of shit, right?".
Interesting model for it, though part of me balks at mathematically describing thigns you can NEVER render into numbers. (Unless we want to assign nummerical values OVER 9000!!!)
He says its 'qualitative' rather than 'quantitative'. And he counts the value somewhere between 0 (total failure) and 1 (completely unachievable success). Of course, though... its just a model/thought experiment to explain his view of how it works.
Quote
Reducing the trappings out of it, if we replace Gnosis and Sigil with aptitude and focus, you can really describe performing any action with it.
Which is exactly what Crowley meant when he said "Any act of Will is a magical act."
Quote
Doing some things angry makes you sloppy, though. I think that would throw off G, or require a more elaborate consideration of P.
Maybe, generally G is a tool for distracting your conscious mind... getting a good seaming pile of rant might work really well as a distraction. The idea is that Gnosis or what Carroll calls "No Mind" is the state in which you are so wrapped up in the act that the sigil and the magic and all of that fades into the background.
But, anger might not work the way I think it might... I'll have to try and see.
(And magic always works best when p is somewhere between .99999 and 1 ;-) )
Wonderful! The thread has gotten back on track. Yay.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 08:41:11 PM
Wonderful! The thread has gotten back on track. Yay.
It's still stupid and mockworthy. What the fuck is this shit, anyway?
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 08:41:11 PM
Wonderful! The thread has gotten back on track. Yay.
It's still stupid and mockworthy. What the fuck is this shit, anyway?
I dunno, why did you step in it without know what it was?
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 08:41:11 PM
Wonderful! The thread has gotten back on track. Yay.
It's still stupid and mockworthy. What the fuck is this shit, anyway?
It translates to "different techniques you can use to Change Your Mind."
QuoteIt's still stupid and mockworthy.
Regardless, at least we're actually talking about how it works rather than debating its existence/functionality.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 11, 2009, 08:52:05 PM
QuoteIt's still stupid and mockworthy.
Regardless, at least we're actually talking about how it works rather than debating its existence/functionality.
I'm pretty sure that the original purpose of this thread was for Enki to post a bunch of stupid, lame pics of sigils he drew and for some reason feels compelled to try to show off, as if someone gives a shit. Which makes it as stupid a thread as the one I'm going to start for irritable bowel syndrome and pics of my grocery lists.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on June 17, 2009, 04:20:50 AM
Since people don't like me posting my sigils in the pic thread usually (or just are kind of wtf about it), I decided to take someone's advice and make a separate thread. Anybody else who has sigils (or pictures that look like sigils, or mspaint scribbles, or whatever) can post them here so as not to junk up the pics thread.
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11hpsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/girrusig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11dingirsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11hbsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11kpsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11dblsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11lgsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11qzsig.png)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/portsig.jpg)
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/11tmtsig.png)
Yeah. So, anyway. Anyone have pictures of what they left in the toilet after lunch?
Touche. Well, at least now it's focusing on sigils themselves rather than pictures or whether they work or not.
What are they supposed to do?
and Santa Claus is DEAD.
I KILLED HIM
I KILLED HIM WITH THIS! :fap:
I DREW A 'SIGIL' ON THE BACK OF HIS HEAD WITH A BAT TO MAKE SURE HE WOULDN'T COME BACK AND THREW HIS BODY DOWN A DRAIN WHERE HUGE FUCKIGN RATS RAEP IT EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY.
R, Crankey and going abck to bed.
Edit to remove needless ad hominem, and because i ahve no pateince for fuckign righteousness other than my own divine fury right now
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Hell if I know. I started this thread five months ago, and it lied dead until a few days ago.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
Pretty much.
So, for example, Enki may have posted these sigils here, knowing what he intended them for. Then months later after forgetting, they pop up and we engage in a big discussion about sigils/hateshit/Nigel's Grocery list and in the orgy of the fray, the images show up in quotes... Enki's brain sees the image but is focused on the debate... (Conscious Awareness is now distracted by the Gnosis of Internet Debating) and his subconscious processes the sigil, recalls its function and BAM the goal is embedded.
Or Enki just posted some pictures on a thread then fapped to them for fun... I dunno.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
So, for example, Enki may have posted these sigils here, knowing what he intended them for. Then months later after forgetting, they pop up and we engage in a big discussion about sigils/hateshit/Nigel's Grocery list and in the orgy of the fray, the images show up in quotes... Enki's brain sees the image but is focused on the debate... (Conscious Awareness is now distracted by the Gnosis of Internet Debating) and his subconscious processes the sigil, recalls its function and BAM the goal is embedded.
Or Enki just posted some pictures on a thread then fapped to them for fun... I dunno.
It's probably one or the other. These days, I usually just use blogger's post-dating feature. I really have no idea what I planned to do with these, five months back.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
So, for example, Enki may have posted these sigils here, knowing what he intended them for. Then months later after forgetting, they pop up and we engage in a big discussion about sigils/hateshit/Nigel's Grocery list and in the orgy of the fray, the images show up in quotes... Enki's brain sees the image but is focused on the debate... (Conscious Awareness is now distracted by the Gnosis of Internet Debating) and his subconscious processes the sigil, recalls its function and BAM the goal is embedded.
Or Enki just posted some pictures on a thread then fapped to them for fun... I dunno.
Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.
I feel so used.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 09:43:07 PM
Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.
Doesn't it make you feel kinky? :evil:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?
I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.
I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 09:49:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 09:43:07 PM
Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.
Doesn't it make you feel kinky? :evil:
Well
no.
Oh...
Darn...
:lulz:
If that's your idea of kinky, well...
TGRR,
Crotchless wetsuit, air compressor, and 50# hose full of tartar sauce, ready to go.
Quote from: FP on November 11, 2009, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?
I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.
I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.
Beat me to it.
Quote from: FP on November 11, 2009, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?
I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.
I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.
:lulz: Perfect.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 09:58:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 09:49:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 09:43:07 PM
Oh good, we're all just vehicles for Enki's self-hypnosis.
Doesn't it make you feel kinky? :evil:
Well
no.
Oh...
Darn...
:lulz:
If that's your idea of kinky, well...
TGRR,
Crotchless wetsuit, air compressor, and 50# hose full of tartar sauce, ready to go.
srsly.
If it doesn't require a tarp, it's not kinky. IMO.
Quote from: FP on November 11, 2009, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?
I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.
I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.
The sigil/magic stuff is only a small part of your process. You still gotta work toward your goal.... the concept is that if you're consciously working toward that goal, subconsciously working toward the same goal is useful.
The most successful sigil magic I ever did was right after really getting into books by several different authors, Antero Alli, Bob Wilson, Peter Carroll, Phil Farber, Phil Hine...
After reading through their stuff I decided I would create a sigil that basically said "I will meet and talk with all of these authors".
About a month later, I was surfing the net and came across a site called maybelogic.net. Maybe Logic was selling online classes which were gonna be taught by Bob Wilson. So I paid up and took the class, I got to have online chats with RAW and thought WOW, that's pretty cool. Not long after that, MLA got hit by an attack and I volunteered to help the admin clean the mess up. The next thing I know, I'm the Technical guy for the site and I'm getting regular phone calls from EVERY SINGLE person in my list. In fact, I even get a mention in the back of Peter Carrolls new book "The Apophenion". Heck, at the point when I started helping out there, half those people weren't instructors and I didn't help decide on courses or anything.
Now, the sigil alone wouldn't have helped me... not without my choice to act when I had the chance. It may be that the sigil had absolutely NOTHING to do with my later experiences... or it may have been the extra nudge that helped me decided to offer my services to the site.
Sigils alone don't effect physical reality, though it may be that they can help with some programming (I am going to be less judgmental / I am going to be more assertive).
A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.
Never mind, SEVERAL people beat me to it.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 10:10:29 PM
A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.
I don't even plan that much. I just do shit. Most of the time it falls over, blows up, and sinks into the swamp.
Good times.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2009, 10:10:29 PM
A sigil is kind of just a roundabout way of writing a list of goals. I personally prefer writing a list of goals and then leaving it on my altar with candles and incense, rereading it a few days later and then burning it. I find the process aesthetically pleasing. No difference really, though. I just find the foisting of the fucking sigils onto others completely irritating. They are, after all, meaningless to anyone but the maker. It's attention-whoring fappery.
Your list or a sigil both fit the formula as the "magical link" the sigil obfuscates the intent to trick your subconscious with some sleight of mind, the list is a bit more direct... but yeah, its pretty much the same thing.
Sometimes sigils can be interesting, but usually with a context... Sigils are often very symbolic and sometimes its cool to see how people create visual symbols to tie to a concept, however it can also be nothing more than fappery.
QuoteSo...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.
Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.
After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.
Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
QuoteSo...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.
Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.
After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.
Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...
I didn't suggest that psychosomatic work is bunk. I suggested that often times "doing ritual" is procrastination.
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 10:27:30 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
QuoteSo...wouldn't it be easier to actually just /do something/, GTS style even? It's kinda like planning, or meetings, or any of that shit. Usually what needs to happen is taking the first step, ie, actually getting off one's ass and doing something.
Doing Something is absolutely necessary. IF someone performs a kind of ritual, be it meditation, sigils, invocation (modifying one's own personality) or praying to whatever deity you wish for help/protection AS you go DO something... then I don't see an issue with that. Sometimes, maybe the first step is a little easier if its couched in symbols and rituals... sometimes, even if you KNOW what you want, or KNOW what you need to do, it may be hard to do it.
After all, we could say that all religions are bunk and we should simply accept the universe and not talk of Emergence as a force. But, sometimes there is value in something that may not be utilitarian. We could eschew all books like Angel Tech, because we can survive without them. But, for some people, maybe that map is helpful.
Getting off our ass and doing something might have 'Magic' as one of the steps, but its not the only one or the most important one. You might say it is like taking some time to hang a motivational poster up in our Prison Cell, before/while we set to work remodeling it...
I didn't suggest that psychosomatic work is bunk. I suggested that often times "doing ritual" is procrastination.
Very much so.
I think magic is much like fifth circuit bliss that we're discussing in the Angel Tech thread.... for people that aren't connected it becomes an escape, either they do rituals and magic ALL THE FUCKING TIME and never actually do real life stuff to accomplish their goals... or they are simply procrastinators that use ritual as their 'See I did something' token.
Peter Carroll addressed that with a Maxim: Never give a sword to a man that can't dance, never give a wand to a man that cannot deal with reality"
Crowley talks alot about Will being tied to Action. He claimed that magic was any "ACT" of Will... but action is entirely necessary.
I am totally alright with using it for procrastination. Usually when I procrastinate, I tend to reorganize my bookshelf by some arbitrary criterion. It takes a whole weekend.
Grant Morrison talks a lot about sigils in The Invisibles. After reading through it, you've got a pretty good idea of how they work. I included a sigil in the distribution, a file called "heres one.jpg"
I distributed the Invisibles to a lot of people. I always passed on the instructions that if they liked it, they should burn the cd, upload it to the internet, send it to as many others as possible. So I'm pretty sure people have "charged" thing.
And if it works, they'll have terrible gas.
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
What is that, a mountain and an elbow?
I usually use ritual not as a procrastination, but as a focus; a preparatory step.
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:52:52 PM
And if it works, they'll have terrible gas.
God damn it, now I know who is to blame :argh!:
IMMA CHARGIN MAH SIGIL
IMMA FIRIN MAH SIGIL
SHOOP DA WOOP
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 11:54:37 PM
IMMA CHARGIN MAH SIGIL
IMMA FIRIN MAH SIGIL
SHOOP DA WOOP
I heard that Faust has 99% accuracy firing his sigil from
across the street.
Thats nothing. I can kill you DED in your sleep from the other side of the planet....
blindfolded.
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 11:54:37 PM
IMMA CHARGIN MAH SIGIL
IMMA FIRIN MAH SIGIL
SHOOP DA WOOP
(http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/CHARGAN.gif)
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
What the fuck...
Thats miles "tails" prowers ear, no fucking way am i fapping to that. you furries always trying to "turn" us norms
(http://www.sonicspeedzone.ca/Image%20Database/Site%20Other/t_d3.png)
Quote from: FP on November 11, 2009, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
So let me know if I'm missing the point. But aren't there some very direct things you can do to achieve your goals, like, work towards them?
I don't want to come over all greyface, but if I were a bank manager and had two people seeing me who wanted financing towards starting their own business/becoming self employed.. I'm probably going to pick the person who has done a shitload of market research and has a solid business plan with realistic revenue projections, over the guy who shows up clenching a soggy doodle he has fapped over.
I mean, even if you make the commitment to dedicate say 15 minutes a day to working towards your goal.. won't that also embed itself into your consciousness? I guess as someone fighting against a lifetime habit of procrastination and slack, I don't have much sympathy for excuses and not just getting things done - and this description of sigils hits those warning bells for me.
Yep, Magic sin;t something you do instead of mundane effort, it is something you do in addition to mundane effort.
Also, dedicated 15 minutes a day toward your task, especcially if it is at a set time each day and you are very strict about it, is an employment of magical techniques already.
You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/broodwitch/fapped.png)
FAPPED!
...
oh ?
MY PALMS!!! MY PAAAAAAAAAAAALMS!
OH THE FURRRRR OH FUK!11ON!E
That's just fucked up.
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".
um, I'm the one who brought the word sigilmancy into the thread. I totally said mundane.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on November 12, 2009, 04:03:01 AM
That's just fucked up.
You know what, you're right...it's missing a twinge of yellow.
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 03:22:00 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/broodwitch/fapped.png)
FAPPED!
...
oh ?
MY PALMS!!! MY PAAAAAAAAAAAALMS!
OH THE FURRRRR OH FUK!11ON!E
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
I hope that people are actually getting off to this sigil.
What have you got to lose?
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 11:58:08 PM
Thats nothing. I can kill you DED in your sleep from the other side of the planet....
blindfolded.
In my imagination just now, your avatar's eyes glowed yellow and shot laz0rs.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 12, 2009, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".
um, I'm the one who brought the word sigilmancy into the thread. I totally said mundane.
You might as well start calling people muggles now, get it over with.
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 05:29:30 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 12, 2009, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".
um, I'm the one who brought the word sigilmancy into the thread. I totally said mundane.
You might as well start calling people muggles now, get it over with.
Hush you Squib.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
What are they supposed to do?
Generally a sigil is a graphic representation of a goal. So your goal might be "I am going to be self-employed within the year", you create a sigil (using whatever technique works for you) to represent or encode that goal. Then you put it away for awhile with all your other sigils. Since you made it, the theory claims... the image and the goal are tied together in your head... they are linked.
So later, when you 'charge' the sigil you are trying to embed the 'goal' deep into your subconscious where you hope it affects your BIP/Paths/Choices/Programming.
Charging the sigil basically involves focusing on the image (the goal) and then doing something that distracts your conscious thinking away from the goal.
Or at least that's the theory as held by most Chaos Magicians.
We do something like this in our trainings with the teenagers. Except we just use words, and not sigils. They write something to themselves, put it in a self-addressed envelope, and I mail it back to them 5 or 6 months from now. So maybe instead of "Letters to Myself", I should start calling it "Sigils to Myself". Should be good for a hoot or two.
This is quite possibly the saddest thread on the post-coup PD.com, and I say that as someone who advocated the creation of a Mahadgickal Ghetto.
why did i just read this :x
also the mahaehdfidjdgdusigjiakl sub forumm was awesome because most of the threads were jokes
I was gonna write a response to this, but I think it would be better off in a new thread in TFY,S.
However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once. As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."
From what I've read above, what some of y'all are describing is about as effective as lighting a green candle so you can get some money to pay the rent.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 12:58:06 PM
However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once. As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."
Arguably, twice -- I'd count when you made it as once.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 12:58:06 PM
However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once. As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."
Arguably, twice -- I'd count when you made it as once.
Does not change the argument.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 12:58:06 PM
I was gonna write a response to this, but I think it would be better off in a new thread in TFY,S.
However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once. As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."
From what I've read above, what some of y'all are describing is about as effective as lighting a green candle so you can get some money to pay the rent.
Hear that grinding noise, LMNO?
Yeah... what the hell is that, anyway?
I make sigils because I enjoy making little arcane looking things, theb leaving them around to spook people.
Do I need other reasons?
I photocopy little pictures of the Key of Solomon for the same purpose.
Quote from: Hoopla on November 12, 2009, 03:31:37 PM
I make sigils because I enjoy making little arcane looking things, theb leaving them around to spook people.
Do I need other reasons?
That's probably the best possible reason.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 02:24:11 PM
Yeah... what the hell is that, anyway?
Western civilization sliding back into the mud.
Welcome back to 800 AD. Be sure you leave a saucer of milk out for the faeries. You know how cranky they get.
BRB, GOTTA ADJUST THE HORSESHOE OVER MY DOOR. TWEET ME BACK.
Hey, so you think those little hearts that were left around the office the other day were sigils? What does it mean? Should I be readjusting my charkras?
@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
"Hey peasants, gather around and watch as the Prophet Cain makes a coin travel through his arm. Now, I will retire to the beautiful home you have graciously provided me, to, uh, meditate with my female acolytes."
Quote from: Hoopla on November 12, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?
You didn't invoke enough.
Quote from: Hoopla on November 12, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?
Teh Anchint Majikz do not recognize indoor plumbing. Please check your local outhouse.
Quote from: Cain on November 12, 2009, 03:32:20 PM
I photocopy little pictures of the Key of Solomon for the same purpose.
Too much work. Not enough masturbation.
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 05:29:30 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 12, 2009, 04:30:44 AM
Quote from: Nigel on November 12, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".
um, I'm the one who brought the word sigilmancy into the thread. I totally said mundane.
You might as well start calling people muggles now, get it over with.
I say "mundane" but its generally in an SCA context like "Where did you store my mundane clothes? I have to drive into town." or "I stopped to get gas and I think I freaked the mundanes out with our car full of 12th century weirdos."
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 12:58:06 PM
I was gonna write a response to this, but I think it would be better off in a new thread in TFY,S.
However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once. As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."
From what I've read above, what some of y'all are describing is about as effective as lighting a green candle so you can get some money to pay the rent.
(assume all of the below is subjective based on my experiences and what I've read etc)
First, there are different categories of "magic" tricks... much like different categories of attacks you can perform against a computer system.
So, a general set of categories might be Invocation, Evocation and Divination. There are more or less depending on how you split things up and who you listen to etc.
Invocation is a process by which you modify your personality to reflect the traits of a specific archetype. If you consider the different aspects of your personality to be like an equalizer, Invocation is about tweaking the different frequencies to get to the goal you have. "Invoke Often" is a maxim because, first, its not always easy to modify your own EQ, especially not the first couple times you try it. The second bit is (just like an EQ) you may have to tweak it several times to get exactly the settings you want. If you Invoke often, focused on the archetype you want to emulate, eventually you can get the personality you perceive as your goal set as a sort of preset in the equalizer.
Augoeides is a different sort of magic where you interact with a 'entity' that is "outside of you" (not for real, just in perception). So Conversations with the Holy Guardian Angel, etc fall into this set. These experiences often are unique and not repeatable. Guys like RAW claimed that may be because the experience is directly tied to the subconscious of the individual and what they're looking for at the time.
Evocation is the process of summoning 'demons' or 'angels' or egrigores etc. Multiple Evocation exercises may be necessary to get the hang of it, but once you are comfortable with the process, it isn't a process you have to repeat regularly (you don't need to do the same ritual and evoke the same entity). Evocation, like the more specific Augoeides are all about the experience and what you get out of that experience.
Sigil magic is generally considered to be part of the Evocation set, not the Invocation set. Rather than temporarily modifying yourself to take on the characteristics of "an entity", you are directly modifying an entity (maybe yourself).
The general argument that Austin Spare Osman uses with sigils is that we're basically programming our subconscious. So we tie the goal in our subconscious to the sigil we create. According to ASO, when we later charge the sigil we are pushing the goal more deeply into the subconscious and telling it that this is 'important'. Once done, though, it either works or doesn't. To go back to the hacker metaphor, if I use a SQL Injection attack on a site and it doesn't do anything, then I don't keep trying that same attack. I have to go try something different.
Invocation is a long process which involves very specific goals. Evocation is a long process where the sole goal is to experience what has been evoked. Invoking Often, can be important because there's a lot of tweaking and practice involved. Evocation is generally a more "in the moment of this experience" sort of thing.
Sigils seem to work if they are acting as nudges, popping up to remind you of your goal/desire... occasionally picking up on a piece of data that our filters might otherwise miss (kinda like 5's and 23's).
Now of course, it may all be bullshit. Sigils may do nothing, it may be impossible to embed concepts into your subconscious. However, from a purely subjective statement, I have followed the proscribed process and gotten results which seem consistent with the results of others who have also followed the process...
Unfortunately, until we figure out how to objectively catalog what is in our subconscious I don't think there's anything more concrete we can say.
Even taking the above as complex metaphors for relatively simpler things, I still see sigils as the silliest, because I think repetition has much more to do with it than sigils allow for, especially if you're dealing with the subconscious.
totally...hence the irritating commercials over and over and over again flashing their corporate identities over and over and over again.
GONNA BUY SOME NIKES AND DRINK A PEPSI, TWEET ME BACK.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 04:14:12 PM
Even taking the above as complex metaphors for relatively simpler things, I still see sigils as the silliest, because I think repetition has much more to do with it than sigils allow for, especially if you're dealing with the subconscious.
I see that argument. RAW's quarter experiment seems to be a good example of exactly what you're talking about. The people that made the modern sigil concept up though, appear to think that repetition in this case is counter to the idea. That is, by the time you get around to 'charging your sigil' you should not consciously remember what that sigil represented. The sigil is already tied subconsciously to the goal (from when you made it). Repetition would become a conscious focus on the goal...
In my experiences, sigils seem useful as reminders or nudges... I've had a sigil (or a goal tied to a sigil) pop up and shift my focus to something I might otherwise ignore. Invocation has been an interesting andf useful experience and evocation has been as well... but they all seem very different in the experience and the results.
In the end, it boils down to try stuff if you want to and see what happens. I've tried some magic practices that seem to do absolutely nothing. I've tried others that seem to produce experiences much like what is described.
Then again, I may just be crazy.
I usually just load a reminder message into my cell phone.
TGRR just took the sentiment right out of my brain. I was going to say, why not just tie a string around your finger?
If a sigil is a "reminder" when you see it, then by definition it didn't work, as you just said you're "not supposed to consciously remember" what it represented.
MAGICK FAIL.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 04:41:26 PM
If a sigil is a "reminder" when you see it, then by definition it didn't work, as you just said you're "not supposed to consciously remember" what it represented.
MAGICK FAIL.
Huh?
Oh... I reread what I wrote, maybe it was unclear. During the ritual, when you're doing the "slight of mind" you don't want to consciously be thinking about the goal. After its embedded, it doesn't matter. The "don't remember it" is just part of the process to get it past the psychic censor (the bit of your brain that says "Hey, all of this is bullshit").
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2009, 04:34:25 PM
I usually just load a reminder message into my cell phone.
Well then you should do that, if it works for you.
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 04:19:34 PM
totally...hence the irritating commercials over and over and over again flashing their corporate identities over and over and over again.
This is a good example of why the whole "don't remember what it's about" thing in sigil magic is a suggestion rather than a rule. Corporations don't forget what their logos are supposed to do, and it's far from obscure to the people being bombarded with them.
Sigils have intent. The rationale (typically) is that you might fixate on the subject conciously -- imagine thinking "omg this damned sigil thing isn't working what am I doing wrong omg omg" in a loop for the whole time -- and so avoiding that is going to be helpful. If you can avoid that (Crowley called that "chronzon 333" -- Mr Mack called it "Bobby" I think -- either way it's annoying) then you are more likely to get shit done, rather than worry about whether or not the ritual you are doing to try to get it done is working.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 04:48:36 PM
Sigils have intent.
Sigils have stupid squiggly lines that don't mean anything.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 04:48:36 PM
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 04:19:34 PM
totally...hence the irritating commercials over and over and over again flashing their corporate identities over and over and over again.
This is a good example of why the whole "don't remember what it's about" thing in sigil magic is a suggestion rather than a rule. Corporations don't forget what their logos are supposed to do, and it's far from obscure to the people being bombarded with them.
Sigils have intent. The rationale (typically) is that you might fixate on the subject conciously -- imagine thinking "omg this damned sigil thing isn't working what am I doing wrong omg omg" in a loop for the whole time -- and so avoiding that is going to be helpful. If you can avoid that (Crowley called that "chronzon 333" -- Mr Mack called it "Bobby" I think -- either way it's annoying) then you are more likely to get shit done, rather than worry about whether or not the ritual you are doing to try to get it done is working.
I thought that the logo was to get the consumer familiar with the product so that when they see the image they'll associate it in terms of the emotion the commercial was trying to convey. That's the subconscious message planted in a logo not the logo itself. This way they choose the familiar product over the less familiar product. The logo is the vehicle not the message.
Insurance companies thrive off of fear, right, so that's the intent when you see allstate or progressive. "THIS IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT" etc etc,blah blah blah. The narrative is complete when you sign up.
Pepsi and Coke are interesting because their constant play off each other seems to have almost merged their corporate identities. IOW If you see pepsi you see coke also. If you see coke you think pepsi also.
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 07:17:05 PM
I thought that the logo was to get the consumer familiar with the product so that when they see the image they'll associate it in terms of the emotion the commercial was trying to convey. That's the subconscious message planted in a logo not the logo itself. This way they choose the familiar product over the less familiar product. The logo is the vehicle not the message.
The 'subconscious' message in that case is not very subconcious -- it is the emotion and the content of the commercial, which are associated with the logo. Of course, months later when you see the logo, you won't remember the commercial...
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 08:24:04 PM
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 07:17:05 PM
I thought that the logo was to get the consumer familiar with the product so that when they see the image they'll associate it in terms of the emotion the commercial was trying to convey. That's the subconscious message planted in a logo not the logo itself. This way they choose the familiar product over the less familiar product. The logo is the vehicle not the message.
The 'subconscious' message in that case is not very subconcious -- it is the emotion and the content of the commercial, which are associated with the logo. Of course, months later when you see the logo, you won't remember the commercial...
That's the repetition part. the commercial reinforces the logo which reinforces the commercial and that's how you make a homunculus known as corporate identity.
Egregores are (ostensibly) a different matter. It is, however, a good example of when sigils can be effective without hiding or purging the intent.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 09:04:19 PM
Egregores are (ostensibly) a different matter.
No, it's just one more nugget on the bullshit heap.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 09:04:19 PM
Egregores are (ostensibly) a different matter. It is, however, a good example of when sigils can be effective without hiding or purging the intent.
You're getting me wrong. The intent isn't to buy the product. That's a result of the intent. The intent is to gain consumer loyalty and devotion to fulfill a narrative set forth by the commercial. The logo is the smiling reinforcement of this intent.
The insurance company example...the intent is fear. That's the hidden part. If they can hook you on the intent you'll naturally go buy a product.
I'd say the intent IS to make the product get bought. The 'narrative' of a commercial is a ritual performance designed to manipulate the emotions of the viewers so that the charging is optimal.
This is to fully mix metaphors, of course, and mangle terminology. I think it's an apt translation, but I am biased.
You're not thinking like a business. The ACTUAL and FINAL intent is making money, yes...but selling a product is too finalized. You need to promote customer loyalty so you can keep going. You obviously wouldn't be in business if you weren't interested in making money. So the 'problem' is not how to make money (that's a given..people buy your shit), but how to stay IN business.
That's where all the commercials and logos and shit come in to play.
It's about developing a relationship through familiarity and repetition.
I should note that the distinctions in magic terminology are different from the ones in marketing terminology, and that this will fundamentally change behavior. People often tend to break stuff down the lines of the things that they consider different.
But, we are arguing how best to phrase the goal of a commercial in magic terms, which is something that I, at least, would rather leave to the AoM crew. My point was mainly that a sigil can still work without the "forget what it's about" factor.
That's fine, what i'm saying is that a commercial is not an example of that. The Sigil itself isn't forgotten, but meaning (like Fear in the insurance ads) is what's hidden.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2009, 04:49:47 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on November 12, 2009, 04:48:36 PM
Sigils have intent.
Sigils have stupid squiggly lines that don't mean anything.
Sort of like when I try to write using cursive.
Some sigils are musick. Or film. Or comics (blame Cram, as I just looked into The Invisibles).
Right, "forget" for the purpose of the ritual the meaning of the Symbol but remember the Symbol (already associated). So a commercial can have boobs and butts and beer and actually be about sunscreen... which you only connect to with the flash of the sigil in the end.
Or... there are lots of ways to play with third circuit semantics and they aren't all using the exact same methods ;-)
Quote from: BAI on November 13, 2009, 06:49:18 AM
Advertising is SIGULS!
No wonder I'm always fapping to the superbowl beer adverts then.
Relavent (and mostly BS) link (http://unplugthesignal.com/2009/10/12/how-television-controls-and-programs-minds.aspx)
Whenever I want to really freak out some mundanes I use my arcane powers and cast my seagulls at them.
TELL ME WHY!
I don't like mundanes, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don't_Like_Mondays)
TELL ME WHY!
I don't like mundanes... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun)
\
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411AD0FZ5QL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 13, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Whenever I want to really freak out some mundanes I use my arcane powers and cast my seagulls at them.
:lulz:
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2009, 03:44:53 PM
TELL ME WHY!
I don't like mundanes, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don't_Like_Mondays)
TELL ME WHY!
I don't like mundanes... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun)
\
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411AD0FZ5QL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Is that album exactly one song long?
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 13, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Whenever I want to really freak out some mundanes I use my arcane powers and cast my seagulls at them.
Well, I like seagulls.
They remind me of Utvær.
HEY GUYS I HEARD OF THIS AWESOME CHAOS MAGIC THING CALLED "THE SECRET" WHERE YOU JUST "THINK" REALLY FUCKING HARD ABOUT SHIT AND THEN YOU GET IT, NO SIGILS NEEDED IT'S LIKE THE FAST TRACK VERSION.
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on November 13, 2009, 11:18:07 PM
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 13, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Whenever I want to really freak out some mundanes I use my arcane powers and cast my seagulls at them.
Well, I like seagulls.
I can "cast" them at high velocity at the back of peoples heads, they generally don't like it.
Back in college, I met this guy "used to be" into chaos magic. He was a pretty heavy dude. --in the sense that he was always talking about fate and death and the mysteries of the universe and what have you. Walked around with a staff which he had "sigilized the fuck out of". I asked him if he still did ritual things, and he said no, he was into "Eastern stuff" now.
Like what? I asked
like Taoist chaos magic
What's that mean?
It's effortless, he said sagely. You don't do anything.
somewhere, a bong sounded
ALSO:
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 12, 2009, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
What the fuck...
Thats miles "tails" prowers ear, no fucking way am i fapping to that. you furries always trying to "turn" us norms
(http://www.sonicspeedzone.ca/Image%20Database/Site%20Other/t_d3.png)
If there is a such thing as a WITCH
I hereby point the sword of the inquisition at YOU, FAUST.
HOW DID YOU KNOW
HOW DID YOU KNOW
what that sigil meant?
Yes, it was intended to transform the fapper's sexuality into that of a furvert. aaaand you guessed it in one. DIVINIATION or TELEPATHY I say!
faust is a witch
BURN 'IM! / \ \
(http://www.freewebs.com/witchcrafttrail/monty_python_witch-701441.jpg)
Quote from: Cramulus on November 18, 2009, 12:54:59 AM
Back in college, I met this guy "used to be" into chaos magic. He was a pretty heavy dude. --in the sense that he was always talking about fate and death and the mysteries of the universe and what have you. Walked around with a staff which he had "sigilized the fuck out of". I asked him if he still did ritual things, and he said no, he was into "Eastern stuff" now.
Like what? I asked
like Taoist chaos magic
What's that mean?
It's effortless, he said sagely. You don't do anything.
somewhere, a bong sounded
I love this! I love it so much! It's like a Discordian and Subgenius koan rolled into one!
Quote from: Cramulus on November 18, 2009, 12:54:59 AM
Back in college, I met this guy "used to be" into chaos magic. He was a pretty heavy dude. --in the sense that he was always talking about fate and death and the mysteries of the universe and what have you. Walked around with a staff which he had "sigilized the fuck out of". I asked him if he still did ritual things, and he said no, he was into "Eastern stuff" now.
Like what? I asked
like Taoist chaos magic
What's that mean?
It's effortless, he said sagely. You don't do anything.
somewhere, a bong sounded
:potd:
Quote from: Cramulus on November 18, 2009, 12:58:51 AM
ALSO:
Quote from: ☂Faust☂ on November 12, 2009, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
unrelated:
everybody fap to this, I FUCKING DARE YOU
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/faptothisidareyou.jpg)
What the fuck...
Thats miles "tails" prowers ear, no fucking way am i fapping to that. you furries always trying to "turn" us norms
(http://www.sonicspeedzone.ca/Image%20Database/Site%20Other/t_d3.png)
If there is a such thing as a WITCH
I hereby point the sword of the inquisition at YOU, FAUST.
HOW DID YOU KNOW
HOW DID YOU KNOW
what that sigil meant?
Yes, it was intended to transform the fapper's sexuality into that of a furvert. aaaand you guessed it in one. DIVINIATION or TELEPATHY I say!
faust is a witch
BURN 'IM!
/ \ \
(http://www.freewebs.com/witchcrafttrail/monty_python_witch-701441.jpg)
Our thoughts are moving in sync... or we have as a forum collectively become predictable :| *apprehensive silence*
bump (in the trunk)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/broodwitch/5fingersbandw.png)
(actually we don't really need to resurrect this thread.)
This thread gave me the screaming shits. It makes me want to beat up a hobo.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 06:07:01 AM
This thread gave me the screaming shits. It makes me want to beat up a hobo.
But hobos aren't the ones making sigils.
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 26, 2009, 07:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 06:07:01 AM
This thread gave me the screaming shits. It makes me want to beat up a hobo.
But hobos aren't the ones making sigils.
I don't care. This thread makes me not care. This thread makes me want to kick habits while the nuns are still wearing them.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 07:16:30 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 26, 2009, 07:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 06:07:01 AM
This thread gave me the screaming shits. It makes me want to beat up a hobo.
But hobos aren't the ones making sigils.
I don't care. This thread makes me not care. This thread makes me want to kick habits while the nuns are still wearing them.
:mittens: The mental image on that is absolutely priceless.
Quote from: Fredamir Putin on November 12, 2009, 11:08:43 AM
also the mahaehdfidjdgdusigjiakl sub forumm was awesome because most of the threads were jokes
That and it made ECH's brain fart
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 07:16:30 AM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 26, 2009, 07:09:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 26, 2009, 06:07:01 AM
This thread gave me the screaming shits. It makes me want to beat up a hobo.
But hobos aren't the ones making sigils.
I don't care. This thread makes me not care. This thread makes me want to kick habits while the nuns are still wearing them.
Which is precisely what the sigils were intended to make you do! :magick:
SOCIOMAJICKALOGICAL EXPERIMENT, ITT
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9419/amazing20power20of20del.jpg)
Here's the real shit. No sigil crap. We're going to sell you a manual for basic free will. :lulz:
Besides, what do you even know about what your unconscious wants? Maybe it's just fucking with you in the first place, and it got you interested in sigils as a way to feign competence. Or maybe it'll get pissed with having to process them because, after all, it knows what you want anyway, and you're so off the mark that it's kind of offensive.
If there's anything in my life that comes close, it's just letting your dreams at night be what they are. Even waking from something terrible, an epic feeling of having traveled well beyond anything in my experience stays with me throughout the morning, and blends into the day. It changes my mood and possibly my destiny, and I don't need to do anything.
EDIT: I just soda-monitored a second time from that book cover. I love how "Ask And It Is Given" was a 'best-seller' and yet here we are with 'do it yourself you lazy fuckwit'.
THE AMAZING POWER OF ACCIDENTAL INTENT
HELP I ACCIDENTALLY THE ENTIRE SIGIL
IS THIS BAD?
THE AMAZING POWER OF INTENTIONAL DELIBERATION
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 01, 2010, 02:46:51 PM
THE AMAZING POWER OF ACCIDENTAL INTENT
HELP I ACCIDENTALLY THE ENTIRE SIGIL
IS THIS BAD?
THE AMAZING POWER OF INTENTIONAL DELIBERATION
THESE GUISE CAME ROUND THEY WERE UP TO NO GOOD
TRYING TO LOVE UNDER WILL IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD
I GOT IN ONE LITTLE CONVOCATION AND MY MOM GOT SCARED
SHE SAID "YOU ACCIDENTALLY THE WHOLE SIGIL NOW
YOU'RE GOING TO STAY WITH YOUR AUNTIE IN BELAIR".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 01, 2010, 04:40:38 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 01, 2010, 02:46:51 PM
THE AMAZING POWER OF ACCIDENTAL INTENT
HELP I ACCIDENTALLY THE ENTIRE SIGIL
IS THIS BAD?
THE AMAZING POWER OF INTENTIONAL DELIBERATION
THESE GUISE CAME ROUND THEY WERE UP TO NO GOOD
TRYING TO LOVE UNDER WILL IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD
I GOT IN ONE LITTLE CONVOCATION AND MY MOM GOT SCARED
SHE SAID "YOU ACCIDENTALLY THE WHOLE SIGIL NOW
YOU'RE GOING TO STAY WITH YOUR AUNTIE IN BELAIR".
You just killed the whole Ratatosk...
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 01, 2010, 02:46:51 PM
THE AMAZING POWER OF ACCIDENTAL INTENT
HELP I ACCIDENTALLY THE ENTIRE SIGIL
IS THIS BAD?
THE AMAZING POWER OF INTENTIONAL DELIBERATION
The Amazing Power of Intentional Accidents: How to Screw With Insurance Companies and People You Hate
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6298/naberiussigil2.gif)
(http://www.donaldtyson.com/qliphoth.jpg)
The first and only time I ever tried any of the sigil stuff, I ended up vomiting. Violently. For the entire night.
Aaaaand for science, I will try it again! :lulz:
Okay, so there were lots of other cases of stomach flu in my school that week, but please let me believe I have discovered a Magickqal Super Secret Occult Make-myself-vomit-my-guts-out Spell. :fap:
IMA SIGILMANCER LOL! PH3AR MAH POWAHHHH!!
\
:vom:
This is why you subliminally superimpose sigils on pictures of eyes and such, not pictures of goatse.
If this thread were combined with the most recent thread on magic, it would quite likely create a black hole of stupidity, which would not only consume the entire site, but probably sites well out of our orbit, like TCC and xkcd.
There is probably a downside, though.
Quote from: Cain on January 20, 2010, 08:10:57 PM
If this thread were combined with the most recent thread on magic, it would quite likely create a black hole of stupidity, which would not only consume the entire site, but probably sites well out of our orbit, like TCC and xkcd.
There is probably a downside, though.
Well i can't think of anything.
:argh!: Sigils? Magic? Stupid? Noooo way, man. You're just not, like, enlightened enough, you know.
Now, here's a sigil I just made. Guess what it stands for?
(http://i45.tinypic.com/357otq1.jpg)
You want Lysergic to vomit Maui when the age of Aquarius starts?
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on January 20, 2010, 08:34:14 PM
You want Lysergic to vomit Maui when the age of Aquarius starts?
That's Cain. He beat up Lys and stole one of his scarves, iirc.
Oh, okay. In that case -- you want Cain to vomit out an essay comparing the political positions of Edo-period Kyoto with the 12th century french hermeticists?
Quote from: Ratatosk on November 11, 2009, 10:07:55 PM
Sigils alone don't effect physical reality, though it may be that they can help with some programming (I am going to be less judgmental / I am going to be more assertive).
aren't those really just
affirmations and
mental scripts?
Quote from: Burns on November 12, 2009, 07:17:05 PM
I thought that the logo was to get the consumer familiar with the product so that when they see the image they'll associate it in terms of the emotion the commercial was trying to convey. That's the subconscious message planted in a logo not the logo itself. This way they choose the familiar product over the less familiar product. The logo is the vehicle not the message.
This. The only use i can think of for sigils is more of a logo-work thing. It, to me, seems more effective appealing to a mental state or an emotion repeatedly and establishing an anchor which links to that state or emotion, rather than appealing to a purposeful goal or process that's more complex, less translatable to the subconscious that doesn't get any repetition. But for this, you need only the capacity for self-hypnosis, or meditation, a particular mental state or emotion, and a mnemonic device (a word, a sound, a symbol, a gesture, a scent, etc) to recall the state. hardly magical. (though the mechanism is so strange to people that you can use it for all sorts of mentalism effects...)
Quote from: Prater Festwo on January 20, 2010, 09:12:55 PMBut for this, you need only the capacity for self-hypnosis, or meditation, a particular mental state or emotion, and a mnemonic device (a word, a sound, a symbol, a gesture, a scent, etc) to recall the state. hardly magical. (though the mechanism is so strange to people that you can use it for all sorts of mentalism effects...)
You just described the whole basis of magic in more scientific terms, and called it "not magic".[/captainobvious]