It doesn't really take much for people to make jokes about happy endings.
It's the default position most of your friends will take when the subject comes up. Not decent people's friends, people that would associate with you argumentative freaks and perverts.
Some therapists get very upset thinking about the parlors, some don't give a damn, and none-too-few engage of shaming of their own. I don't have any hard feelings toward those people. As far as I can see it's one of the safest forms of prostitution. These women are in from cold, they have a building where men are much less likely to get rough, and the whole ordeal very nearly a victimless ordeal.
Until you come along stuff like this:
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/thp/3145663310.html
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/thp/3145441959.html
Or, even better:
http://www.rubmaps.com/
The last one always leaves me a bit sick. These assholes are reviewing these women like motherfucking books on amazon.
Places like these most definitely engage in sex trafficking, mostly from Asia as far as I can tell.
In contrast you have stuff like this:
http://happyendingz.blogspot.com/
Now she definitely does not like the word prostitution. And when you put your hands all over another persons body it really can seem like it's not. It seems like the most natural thing to do, really. In fact, a lot of what goes into sex DOES happen in a massage. But I think that's based on the perspective of a sexually repressed culture. Touch is a funny thing, and it does things to your brain you can't actually have a conversation with yourself about.
What is your view on low-level prostitution like this? Is there such a thing as less-harmless prostitution?
Indoor prostitution was legal in RI up until last year I think, but, obviously, after checking out the Rubmaps site and seeing about 10 Providence "spas" pop right up, as well as the listings in the Phoenix, it's no surprise that, once again, a loophole was found.
Some get busted, some don't. Stuff like that here is lucrative business for the guidos running the state, so I do what the rest of the citizens do, and that's ignore their existence. Rhode Island is a state of KYFMS on such things.
I knew a woman with a private massage practice that got busted for that sort of thing and walked away with a slap on the wrist.
To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel about that sort of thing. On one level, it's a matter of personal choice, if the people giving these massages want to cater to those sorts of folks, then well, they can deal with it, as was the case with my acquaintance. On the other hand, if there's trafficking involved, I have to wonder if those girls have that choice at all? I'm okay with selling sex, but not okay with selling other people, if that makes sense.
I think that if the power dynamic was altogether different, and no human trafficking was involved, I would have a very different perspective on it. Being in that line of work could be seen as a compassionate act, but the way things are right now, it really just isn't, usually.
I dunno...even without the trafficking angle, it would take an unreal amount of compassion to give an erotic massage to whatever creep happened to wander in off the street and swipe a credit card. :x
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
Pragmatically, the main priority should be protecting the practitioners and I honestly suspect, and have said as much before, that a regulated industry is the best way to do that.
Human trafficking is the main concern.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
Well, yeah, and I can see the non-sexual stuff. Everybody should have access to food, housing, medical care, legal aid, etc.
I just don't see how doing sexual stuff with guys who make your skin crawl in that situation
isn't exploitation.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 06:46:03 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
Well, yeah, and I can see the non-sexual stuff. Everybody should have access to food, housing, medical care, legal aid, etc.
I just don't see how doing sexual stuff with guys who make your skin crawl in that situation isn't exploitation.
If the person being paid is the one who is making the decision as to whether or not they perform a sex act, then it's not. A person is making a choice as to what they, personally, are willing to do. Given that this situation is probably all but non-existent in the sex industry, it's kind of moot, but hypothetically, it could be non-exploitative.
As someone who goes into a catatonic state of bliss when having a massage I feel a happy ending would ruin the experience for me.
I've never gotten a massage from a stranger though so I don't have any frame of reference.
As a prostitution act, in principle it seems safer than others but it is bound to attract the same problems as regular prostitution such as the issue of safety of the girls, is a pimp involved and as soon as you get to that level you get the drugs and human trafficking problems.
I guess I have no problem with this as it is independent and the girl is in charge with no one above her making her feel obliged to do it.
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 06:46:03 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
Well, yeah, and I can see the non-sexual stuff. Everybody should have access to food, housing, medical care, legal aid, etc.
I just don't see how doing sexual stuff with guys who make your skin crawl in that situation isn't exploitation.
If the person being paid is the one who is making the decision as to whether or not they perform a sex act, then it's not. A person is making a choice as to what they, personally, are willing to do. Given that this situation is probably all but non-existent in the sex industry, it's kind of moot, but hypothetically, it could be non-exploitative.
Well yeah, but it comes back to that whole issue of performing sex acts because the alternative is being homeless or dope sick or whatever.
Some quotes from a PDF I stumbled accross (honest, I swear!); It's from an 'adult massage parlor', and made for would be patrons. Remember, this is Aus, therefor legal.
Quote"10 Tips to Guarantee a Great Massage"
Herp Derp is famous for the explorer's lounge and fresh new ladies!
We attract many guys who have never been anywhere before and lots of new
girls who've never done anything naughty!
We are not looking for "experienced people" in either category!
The point of view of a brand new Massage Girl?
She wants to please and has been trained to please.
She expects the client to have a good shower and be all clean, fresh and pink for
his rub down.
She has been told to expect the client to touch her breasts, but only gently.
She expects that some clients will attempt to push her personal boundaries and
she knows how to give a series of warnings to the adventurous client who may
continuously ask her out.
She wants to learn about how different men will react to her touch and to try out
the hot oil. She will massage for about half of the period of time on the client's
back and then roll him over to do some of the front and then proceed to do the
last part. She expects he will give her some guidance with how he likes it but she
doesn't like bad language.
She expects the client to have a good opinion of her efforts and be so thrilled that
he will come back another day.
QuoteWhen ladies apply for a start with us they quite often say they would NOT go to
another place. They come to us because the advertising says "NO SEX" or
because someone has told them we do not push the ladies to do more.
Some ladies don't mind if their friends and family know they work at Herp
because they are happy within the bounds of the No Sex reputation. All our ladies
become friends and share this ethic. If a new lady starts with us and she wants to
offer more she is soon moved along to protect the reputation of the others.
Most brothels go to a lot of trouble to make sure that clients do not run into each
other in the hallways. Having the big lounge area at Herp is different. The Herp Derp visitor is usually not uncomfortable. Anyway, it's harmless fun for grownups, so who cares, it's only A NAKED MASSAGE with A HAPPY ENDING!
QuoteAfter a few weeks at Herp Derp our ladies become good little talkers when
sitting in the spas, even though many of them are rather quiet in the club area.
Men on the loose and out of touch with relationships find that talking in the spas
is good therapy and frees up the tongue.
Some guys just want the talk to be "nothing of much consequence" and then give
themselves over to the massage - they say it is a good way to step back from
their busy daily life and relax. It's certainly a great boost to your business.
How to "Make the best impression with a Lady"
If your friend came to you and said "I have a date with a nice lady - tell me, how
I should act?" You would say to him "Be yourself, don't be a goose, don't pretend
to be something you are not!"
Well, take your own advice. - don't pretend.
Often the massage lady says, "that guy was really nice, he was just natural."
She likes to talk about the normal things that happen in life, at the movies, or
what's on TV.
The whole point of this is that you don't have to be a superstar - just act naturally
and give the odd genuine compliment. I mean genuine. Australians have the best
bullshit meters in the World. If it is a bullshit compliment you are being a GOOSE.
So just be yourself, and be nice!
You have to prove you are NORMAL!
From time to time men put on an act and really misbehave or make degrading
remarks. There is always a guy like this at a strip show. Most women have seen
men at their worst at some time.
It is good to be aware that even when the ladies are happy serving you and being
polite they are at the same time on the lookout to see if you are going to turn out
to be okay or not.
It is best to set their minds at rest early and prove you are normal by being
polite. They will be relieved when they realize you really are okay.
Most meetings have a hospitality ritual, which centers around the offering of a
drink or beverage. Take this opportunity to be grateful and friendly. It is the
moment, which leads to regular conversation. It's a getting to know you time.
Believe me, it is the moment ignorant men cannot get past. Often a lady walks
back to the bar saying "You should have heard what he just said!"
So, what I'm saying here is that because of the bad behavior of men in general,
you have a great opportunity to be loved by women! All you have to do is some
small talk while she has time to decide if you have a dark side. You can mention
that you heard we serve a nice chocolate drink or perhaps ask for a juice in a
glass. If she is appealing, why not ask her to join you in a drink.
QuoteTips
If you should wish to tip, don't tip early as there is an implication that she is
expected to do extra. This actually distracts the lady and minimizes any extra
effort, which might happen on her part. Ladies do try hard to make your stay
most memorable, as they would like to have repeats from men they get to know.
Not many men tip or are expected to. It is a big thrill for a massage lady to get a
tip at the end!
"Buyers Remorse" is a real condition. For most men is a dreadful feeling that you
have wasted the rent money yet again and that the lady is at fault. After the end
bit this results in clients being curt and rude to a beautiful woman who has
knocked herself out for them. Some men at this point are asked to not come back
so - bear in mind you have just been chucked out of the best place and there is
no return as the ladies all talk to each other. Be nice and if you intend to tip make
sure you follow through - especially if you even hinted at it.
How to "Not act stupid with a Herp lady"
The first thing a new lady learns is "The customer is not a friend of the boss!"
Let me put that another way: If "Stupid" was an extreme sport "I'm a friend of
the boss" would be way out there, on a long bungee, not tied on.
The most frequently said stupid thing is "I'M A FRIEND OF THE BOSS."
Almost as stupid:
My friend got sex here.
I got sex with your friend here.
I go out with girls from here all the time.
I can't come if you don't have sex with me.
It doesn't count if I put it in just a little bit.
It's your fault I'm sad for not having sex with me.
I don't want a massage, just play with my dick all the time.
I will be unhappy if I can't go down on you.
Everyone else does it.
Now, even though there is a little humour in this, you and I have gone to all kinds
of places in our lives and said stupid things or asked the stupid questions. Hire
car drivers say the most frequently asked stupid question is "Have you got a TV
in there." This doesn't seem stupid to anyone else except a hire car driver.
What if you run into a lady away from Herp?
She will be hoping you are discreet and that you don't even make eye contact.
She is terrified that her two Worlds will collide. Ladies do, from time to time go
out with clients but there are enough disaster stories around to put them off.
Just do her a big favour and give her space.
It follows that clients who pursue working ladies will often end up with regrets and of
course the last thing you want is to have Big John and the Police drop over to discuss
your stalking.
QuoteWhen things go wrong - it's your fault!
If she is upset in any way - it's your fault.
This is the whole point of it. The massage lady is sweet and delicate and happy to
enjoy your company and willingly do the happy ending!
You have to do your part. Be nice!
There is no other ending other than the happy one.
It's a NAKED MASSAGE WITH A HAPPY ENDING!
Obviously it's not actually called Herp Derp. I just wasn't out to advertise the place.
I just wanted to post this to show there are some places which seem sincere in making an effort to look after the workers, etc. I just found the PDF interesting; not going to try to put a spin on it either way.
I've never seen any kind of advertisment that says if their emplyee is upset, it is the customer's fault. That seems pretty cool.
I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. :x
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.
No.
I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?
Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.
So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 10:45:56 PM
No.
I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?
Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.
So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 10:32:21 PM
I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. :x
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.
"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.
I don't see myself as unique in this.
I don't know... maybe I'm narrow-sighted (in fact, probably) but it seems like more a factory job than anything to me. Grab that thing, wank it, wipe down, done. I think 90% of what people hate about the job is the stigma, more of that slut shaming from the other thread.
EDIT: I guess I mean that I think it *should* be something like a factory job, not that it necessarily is. I doubt it is for many people.
Well I wouldn't want to work on diesel engines, or as a nurse because of the blood and other fluids, or retail because I can't stand people's faces when I do. I certainly don't want to give out handjobs for a living, but it's not as though I haven't considered it. Easy money, repeat business, higher rates. Just not what I want.
A lot of people would not want to do any kind of massage for a living. Others could not stomach the idea of reading tarot cards. In fact, there are plenty of people who broadly view tarot readers and charlatans who take people's money telling them what they want to hear. Well, they thinks there's something wrong with that. Not me, they may be pink and all.
There is an element to touching people's whole bodies that makes hand-jobs seem very natural. But there is a lot more power, I think, in non-sexual massage. Non-sexual touch is very important.
But you make it seem like this kind of thing is beneath you, and thus people who do it are. I mean, you've got a lot of hostility to the idea as an idea, quite aside from your lack of desire to do such work.
I think you're projecting, Stelz.
For example, my acquaintance who did that had none of the negative feelings you're describing, and she only stopped doing it because she got caught.
Again, however, I will state that people in that situation are vastly in the minority, but I would hazard to guess that a licensed massage therapist who engages in sex acts is far less likely to be in that boat than someone who is in the sex industry in some other capacity.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not because I'd feel demeaned or ashamed. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to put up with the people.
I think we were talking about this in another thread. Your body as a commodity.
Hand jobs, blow jobs, buttsex, the works - MY BOON TO BESTOW. According to if I LIKE somebody that way. Not economics.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 18, 2012, 11:05:20 PM
I don't know... maybe I'm narrow-sighted (in fact, probably) but it seems like more a factory job than anything to me. Grab that thing, wank it, wipe down, done. I think 90% of what people hate about the job is the stigma, more of that slut shaming from the other thread.
EDIT: I guess I mean that I think it *should* be something like a factory job, not that it necessarily is. I doubt it is for many people.
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
Well I wouldn't want to work on diesel engines, or as a nurse because of the blood and other fluids, or retail because I can't stand people's faces when I do. I certainly don't want to give out handjobs for a living, but it's not as though I haven't considered it. Easy money, repeat business, higher rates. Just not what I want.
A lot of people would not want to do any kind of massage for a living. Others could not stomach the idea of reading tarot cards. In fact, there are plenty of people who broadly view tarot readers and charlatans who take people's money telling them what they want to hear. Well, they thinks there's something wrong with that. Not me, they may be pink and all.
There is an element to touching people's whole bodies that makes hand-jobs seem very natural. But there is a lot more power, I think, in non-sexual massage. Non-sexual touch is very important.
But you make it seem like this kind of thing is beneath you, and thus people who do it are. I mean, you've got a lot of hostility to the idea as an idea, quite aside from your lack of desire to do such work.
I'm not
better than sex workers, but yeah, it's beneath me.
It's beneath EVERYBODY.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
I think we were talking about this in another thread. Your body as a commodity.
Hand jobs, blow jobs, buttsex, the works - MY BOON TO BESTOW. According to if I LIKE somebody that way. Not economics.
Sure, but trading that for monetary gain is the choice of a person, and so long as they are making that choice with no duress, then that's still their choice. Stupidity is still allowed, even if it is distasteful.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
Well I wouldn't want to work on diesel engines, or as a nurse because of the blood and other fluids, or retail because I can't stand people's faces when I do. I certainly don't want to give out handjobs for a living, but it's not as though I haven't considered it. Easy money, repeat business, higher rates. Just not what I want.
A lot of people would not want to do any kind of massage for a living. Others could not stomach the idea of reading tarot cards. In fact, there are plenty of people who broadly view tarot readers and charlatans who take people's money telling them what they want to hear. Well, they thinks there's something wrong with that. Not me, they may be pink and all.
There is an element to touching people's whole bodies that makes hand-jobs seem very natural. But there is a lot more power, I think, in non-sexual massage. Non-sexual touch is very important.
But you make it seem like this kind of thing is beneath you, and thus people who do it are. I mean, you've got a lot of hostility to the idea as an idea, quite aside from your lack of desire to do such work.
I'm not better than sex workers, but yeah, it's beneath me.
It's beneath EVERYBODY.
See previous statement.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
Well I wouldn't want to work on diesel engines, or as a nurse because of the blood and other fluids, or retail because I can't stand people's faces when I do. I certainly don't want to give out handjobs for a living, but it's not as though I haven't considered it. Easy money, repeat business, higher rates. Just not what I want.
A lot of people would not want to do any kind of massage for a living. Others could not stomach the idea of reading tarot cards. In fact, there are plenty of people who broadly view tarot readers and charlatans who take people's money telling them what they want to hear. Well, they thinks there's something wrong with that. Not me, they may be pink and all.
There is an element to touching people's whole bodies that makes hand-jobs seem very natural. But there is a lot more power, I think, in non-sexual massage. Non-sexual touch is very important.
But you make it seem like this kind of thing is beneath you, and thus people who do it are. I mean, you've got a lot of hostility to the idea as an idea, quite aside from your lack of desire to do such work.
I'm not better than sex workers, but yeah, it's beneath me.
It's beneath EVERYBODY.
If it's a boon bestowed for money and they desire it, how is it beneath that person?
This is the judgement that doesn't sit well with me.
Who are you to say its beneath everyone? By what standard, other than YOUR PERSONAL views and desires, is this determined?
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I think you're projecting, Stelz.
For example, my acquaintance who did that had none of the negative feelings you're describing, and she only stopped doing it because she got caught.
Again, however, I will state that people in that situation are vastly in the minority, but I would hazard to guess that a licensed massage therapist who engages in sex acts is far less likely to be in that boat than someone who is in the sex industry in some other capacity.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not because I'd feel demeaned or ashamed. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to put up with the people.
That too.
And Alty has a point about retail, etc. The people are what make it suck. Same with a lot of other jobs. I suspect MOST people are better than their jobs, expecially in this shitty service economy. And fortunetelling is pretty fringe-element and has a shady rep.
Maybe we all have to sell out, to a point. Just not to the point of pulling a bunch of dicks.
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:20:01 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
Well I wouldn't want to work on diesel engines, or as a nurse because of the blood and other fluids, or retail because I can't stand people's faces when I do. I certainly don't want to give out handjobs for a living, but it's not as though I haven't considered it. Easy money, repeat business, higher rates. Just not what I want.
A lot of people would not want to do any kind of massage for a living. Others could not stomach the idea of reading tarot cards. In fact, there are plenty of people who broadly view tarot readers and charlatans who take people's money telling them what they want to hear. Well, they thinks there's something wrong with that. Not me, they may be pink and all.
There is an element to touching people's whole bodies that makes hand-jobs seem very natural. But there is a lot more power, I think, in non-sexual massage. Non-sexual touch is very important.
But you make it seem like this kind of thing is beneath you, and thus people who do it are. I mean, you've got a lot of hostility to the idea as an idea, quite aside from your lack of desire to do such work.
I'm not better than sex workers, but yeah, it's beneath me.
It's beneath EVERYBODY.
If it's a boon bestowed for money and they desire it, how is it beneath that person?
This is the judgement that doesn't sit well with me.
Who are you to say its beneath everyone? By what standard, other than YOUR PERSONAL views and desires, is this determined?
Because I've known various kinds of sex workers, and they were all FUCKED UP.
You can't do this shit and remain unscathed.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I think you're projecting, Stelz.
For example, my acquaintance who did that had none of the negative feelings you're describing, and she only stopped doing it because she got caught.
Again, however, I will state that people in that situation are vastly in the minority, but I would hazard to guess that a licensed massage therapist who engages in sex acts is far less likely to be in that boat than someone who is in the sex industry in some other capacity.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not because I'd feel demeaned or ashamed. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to put up with the people.
That too.
And Alty has a point about retail, etc. The people are what make it suck. Same with a lot of other jobs. I suspect MOST people are better than their jobs, expecially in this shitty service economy. And fortunetelling is pretty fringe-element and has a shady rep.
Maybe we all have to sell out, to a point. Just not to the point of pulling a bunch of dicks.
Maybe, but on the other hand, we can only draw the line for ourselves. It's up to other people to draw their own lines, and to be perfectly honest, looking down on them because their lines are farther on is exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid, innit?
Whelp, I didn't think we were talking about sex work in the world that's outside right now, with the obviously horrible conditions they endure. I was under the impression we were talking about extremely passive sex work in a highly regulated setting, and the subtle differences environment places.
Since we are not talking about that, and are instead talking about OMG SEX WORK IS BAD AND FUCKS YOU UP, MKAY I am going to go away and read.
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:32:02 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I think you're projecting, Stelz.
For example, my acquaintance who did that had none of the negative feelings you're describing, and she only stopped doing it because she got caught.
Again, however, I will state that people in that situation are vastly in the minority, but I would hazard to guess that a licensed massage therapist who engages in sex acts is far less likely to be in that boat than someone who is in the sex industry in some other capacity.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not because I'd feel demeaned or ashamed. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to put up with the people.
That too.
And Alty has a point about retail, etc. The people are what make it suck. Same with a lot of other jobs. I suspect MOST people are better than their jobs, expecially in this shitty service economy. And fortunetelling is pretty fringe-element and has a shady rep.
Maybe we all have to sell out, to a point. Just not to the point of pulling a bunch of dicks.
Maybe, but on the other hand, we can only draw the line for ourselves. It's up to other people to draw their own lines, and to be perfectly honest, looking down on them because their lines are farther on is exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid, innit?
No, Phox, you don't understand. I'm not looking down on them, any more than I would look down on somebody with combat-related PTSD. We're human. We get into these situations. I can see how somebody might decide to do a porn flick, for instance, because they'd get as much pay for a few hours as they would for over a month at McDonalds. I can see sex workers doing this shit to feed their kids, or just because it's been drilled into them all their lives that THEY DESERVE NICE THINGS, and there's no other way.
Maybe they "made a decision" but it's not their fault. And it still FUCKS THEM UP.
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 11:36:25 PM
Whelp, I didn't think we were talking about sex work in the world that's outside right now, with the obviously horrible conditions they endure. I was under the impression we were talking about extremely passive sex work in a highly regulated setting, and the subtle differences environment places.
Since we are not talking about that, and are instead talking about OMG SEX WORK IS BAD AND FUCKS YOU UP, MKAY I am going to go away and read.
Sex work in a regulated setting is better, yes. But what fucks your head up isn't so much the horrible conditions of unregulated sex work as the WORK ITSELF, not having automony over YOURSELF.
But we did have this discussion already not so long ago http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,30875.0.html
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:32:02 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: Phox, Mistress of Many Names on July 18, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I think you're projecting, Stelz.
For example, my acquaintance who did that had none of the negative feelings you're describing, and she only stopped doing it because she got caught.
Again, however, I will state that people in that situation are vastly in the minority, but I would hazard to guess that a licensed massage therapist who engages in sex acts is far less likely to be in that boat than someone who is in the sex industry in some other capacity.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not because I'd feel demeaned or ashamed. I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to put up with the people.
That too.
And Alty has a point about retail, etc. The people are what make it suck. Same with a lot of other jobs. I suspect MOST people are better than their jobs, expecially in this shitty service economy. And fortunetelling is pretty fringe-element and has a shady rep.
Maybe we all have to sell out, to a point. Just not to the point of pulling a bunch of dicks.
Maybe, but on the other hand, we can only draw the line for ourselves. It's up to other people to draw their own lines, and to be perfectly honest, looking down on them because their lines are farther on is exactly the sort of thing we want to avoid, innit?
No, Phox, you don't understand. I'm not looking down on them, any more than I would look down on somebody with combat-related PTSD. We're human. We get into these situations. I can see how somebody might decide to do a porn flick, for instance, because they'd get as much pay for a few hours as they would for over a month at McDonalds. I can see sex workers doing this shit to feed their kids, or just because it's been drilled into them all their lives that THEY DESERVE NICE THINGS, and there's no other way.
Maybe they "made a decision" but it's not their fault. And it still FUCKS THEM UP.
:shrug:
I'm not going to keep spitting against the wall on this one, either. My point is that this situation does not necessarily equal doing it or starving, or feeding your kids, or working at McDonald's for the rest of your life otherwise. It seems that you are saying that there is no point at which a person is capable of making a decision for themselves about selling sex, which is starting to sound a lot like people aren't actually responsible their choices (in this post I'm quoting). If that's what you're saying, then we simply aren't going to agree, and there's no discussion to be had here.
OK, why would anybody making decent money doing massage, who hasn't gotten themselves into financial hot water, suddenly decide they want to include hand jobs for everybody if not for the extra money? How can there NOT be some kind of duress?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 12:14:21 AM
OK, why would anybody making decent money doing massage, who hasn't gotten themselves into financial hot water, suddenly decide they want to include hand jobs for everybody if not for the extra money? How can there NOT be some kind of duress?
There was none with my acquaintance. As I keep saying, I am not taking that anecdote as representative of the entire massage/sex industry overlap, and freely admit that it is without question, a rarity, to say the least. HOWEVER, people decide to do things. Not all massage therapists engage in sex acts. Not all massage therapists that engage in sex acts are acting of their own volition. But that does not mean that a massage therapist engaging in sex acts are not making their own decision, either.
Maybe they are curious. Maybe they want extra spending money. Maybe they just want some sex, so why the hell not? I can't tell you what makes a person decide to do this, but it's neither accurate nor fair to assume that everyone who does so is in a situation in which they are forced to do it, for whatever reason.
I can easily see how a happy ending in that setting would be just another part of a message thing.
Even more so, I could see how, in a safe, regulated, and purely by-their-own-choice setting, a certin kind of person might view it as helping people. A kindness to the public, maybe even.
Massage therapists touch people for a living. This touching makes people feel good. A handjob is basically just touching someone in a way that feels good. In this context, I see no big deal with that, and in a way it is appealing.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Thank you.
I mean, THINK about it.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 03:37:50 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Thank you.
I mean, THINK about it.
It seems to me that everyone is a commodity in one sense or another in the workplace, but sex workers are basically paid to be a sex toy for damage cases.
I've met a lot of hookers in my mis-spent life, but never a "happy hooker". I also felt no urge to buy their time, because I found the whole thing kinda dismal.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:39:54 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 03:37:50 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Thank you.
I mean, THINK about it.
It seems to me that everyone is a commodity in one sense or another in the workplace, but sex workers are basically paid to be a sex toy for damage cases.
I've met a lot of hookers in my mis-spent life, but never a "happy hooker". I also felt no urge to buy their time, because I found the whole thing kinda dismal.
Yeah. If I ever hit the lottery I'd be handing them humdred dollar bills and telling them to take the afternoon off. :sad:
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I am uninterested in happy endings and other types of prostitution for the same reason porn doesn't work for me. To invest any kind of sexual energy in any situation, I have to believe the situation is consensual -- not just consensual, but honestly desired by all parties involved. Knowing somebody's getting paid for it, that it's just a job or a chore (or worse), completely neutralizes my libido.
That's not to say I'd be opposed to spontaneous sex with a masseuse if things happen to go that way -- just as long as we're both into it and we're breaking the rules.
Quote from: v3x on July 19, 2012, 04:27:08 AM
I am uninterested in happy endings and other types of prostitution for the same reason porn doesn't work for me. To invest any kind of sexual energy in any situation, I have to believe the situation is consensual -- not just consensual, but honestly desired by all parties involved. Knowing somebody's getting paid for it, that it's just a job or a chore (or worse), completely neutralizes my libido.
That's not to say I'd be opposed to spontaneous sex with a masseuse if things happen to go that way -- just as long as we're both into it and we're breaking the rules.
:fap:
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 10:45:56 PM
No.
I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?
Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.
So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 10:32:21 PM
I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. :x
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.
"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.
I don't see myself as unique in this.
I don't know about that.
I was a 900-girl for quite some time. That job took it out of me... I found it depressing after a while. Not because of feeling subjugated or used, but because my customers were so, so sad. They often made me cry, and almost always out of sympathy. So yes, I can say for experience that if you take the human trafficking and the stigma out of sex work, there is a large space for human compassion. A man who goes to a parlor for human touch and sexual release
might be a dirtbag, but he might equally be a lonely human being starved for touch and sex, two elements that humans need to be happy. The world would be a better place if we made it OK and respectable to compassionately administer touch, including sexual touch, to lonely people.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:33:29 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 10:45:56 PM
No.
I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?
Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.
So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 10:32:21 PM
I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. :x
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.
"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.
I don't see myself as unique in this.
I don't know about that.
I was a 900-girl for quite some time. That job took it out of me... I found it depressing after a while. Not because of feeling subjugated or used, but because my customers were so, so sad. They often made me cry, and almost always out of sympathy. So yes, I can say for experience that if you take the human trafficking and the stigma out of sex work, there is a large space for human compassion. A man who goes to a parlor for human touch and sexual release might be a dirtbag, but he might equally be a lonely human being starved for touch and sex, two elements that humans need to be happy. The world would be a better place if we made it OK and respectable to compassionately administer touch, including sexual touch, to lonely people.
Okay, but I'm not doing it. I've seen johns up close. NOT DOING IT.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
Of course, I'm not the most compassionate guy in the world.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 12:14:21 AM
OK, why would anybody making decent money doing massage, who hasn't gotten themselves into financial hot water, suddenly decide they want to include hand jobs for everybody if not for the extra money? How can there NOT be some kind of duress?
There are people, who are few and far between because this society does not make this an easily attainable place to be, who do sex therapy work. These are not prostitutes, although they are often called that; they are skilled and educated professionals who believe that there are men and women who need their skills and their services. This comes from a place of compassion and service, and not from a place of subjugation or desperation; just as there are tens of thousands of people who work for twelve dollars an hour doing social work, some of the most horrendously depressing work there is, with their $70,000 in student loan debt to earn an MSW.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:33:29 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 18, 2012, 10:45:56 PM
No.
I mean, feel free to view that in any way you wish.
But there is clearly a large difference between random street walkers and what those women are doing.
Did you read that blog I posted?
Because there are some pretty good, real life examples of that difference. For one thing, I think there's a huge difference between a hand-job of a dude who is inert and, you know, any other sex act.
So, you seem to be of the mind that anyone who engages in sex work is at the same level of a random street walker, that there is no difference anywhere along those lines?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 10:32:21 PM
I saw it as a veneer of faux concern for women who are expected to sell hand jobs and let these guys grope their tits.
Maybe they're esteemed slightly more than street hookers who sell blow jobs, but not quite as much as the girls dancing in the tittie flops. :x
In any case, I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.
"Inert" doesn't change the fact that you have to jack people off for a living.
That would depress the fuck out of me. If I had to smile every time some fat fuck groped my tit when all I wanted to do was bash his head in with a chair, it would do something to me. I'd be ashamed to tell people what I did for a living. I'd beat myself up for being too stupid or lazy to get into something else. If I couldn't find a way out, I'd be strung out on heroin before three months had passed.
I don't see myself as unique in this.
I don't know about that.
I was a 900-girl for quite some time. That job took it out of me... I found it depressing after a while. Not because of feeling subjugated or used, but because my customers were so, so sad. They often made me cry, and almost always out of sympathy. So yes, I can say for experience that if you take the human trafficking and the stigma out of sex work, there is a large space for human compassion. A man who goes to a parlor for human touch and sexual release might be a dirtbag, but he might equally be a lonely human being starved for touch and sex, two elements that humans need to be happy. The world would be a better place if we made it OK and respectable to compassionately administer touch, including sexual touch, to lonely people.
That's a beautiful point.
If you has some kind of Kwan Yin level of compassion, maybe you could pull it off. Maybe you're there. I'm not.
Most of us aren't.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
I think that in our current society, it is essentially impossible. I also think that the reason for that has everything to do with power dynamics, and that if, in some alternate reality, power dynamics were such that the sex worker had all the power, it would be completely possible, because then the sex worker would not be dehumanized or commodified, any more than a therapist is dehumanized or commodified.
That is just not the way it works, in the here and now reality we live in. It doesn't mean it's not possible, just that it's not possible in our current reality.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
I am.
If I have to put my hand on a dick, and I am not a doctor, and I don't like/love/feel attracted to the person on the other end of the dick, but I need the money, it's hooking.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth. I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple. It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Not at all.
I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.
I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth. I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple. It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.
Seth? Don't think I've heard this story.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:04:51 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth. I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple. It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.
Seth? Don't think I've heard this story.
That's because I've never gotten around to mailing about a hundred things, including a copy of MSY1 to you.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:02:15 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Not at all.
I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.
I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.
But are you the kind of person who would go into giving a massage at all? Or working with people and their bodies at all? You said you wouldn't, right? Well, that is your prerogative.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 05:05:45 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:04:51 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:19:02 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:14:43 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 04:12:49 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 03:51:30 AM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 03:33:00 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 18, 2012, 06:17:35 AM
A lot of people have a calling to compassionate careers that deal with the creeps off the street... it's just that in the current paradigm, it's almost impossible for sex worker to be that kind of compassionate career, rather than an exploited one.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don't think it's possible to be a sex worker without becoming a bundle of PTSD.
Maybe so, but in reference to the OP, it's different. Massage therapy is a powerful thing all on its own. It's the whole touching and being touched thing. A happy ending, in the best of all situations, is not at all like hooking.
A longass massage with a happy ending loses all meaning when it's some strange fatass old man with a sock tan who considers you a whore.
Sorry, I never held out for a diamond ring or any of that, but a longass massage with a happy ending is "for special".
There are always going to be people like that. It can still be meaningful to the right kind of person.
Not buying it.
Then how is massaging people not like hooking?
If it's just massage, it's more like chiropractic work.
If there's a "happy ending", it's hooking.
I'm not buying in to this dichotomy.
I may well be biased from my days working with that scumbag Seth. I view prostitution as slavery, plain & simple. It's an emotional thing based on admittedly limited experience, I know, but there you have it.
Seth? Don't think I've heard this story.
That's because I've never gotten around to mailing about a hundred things, including a copy of MSY1 to you.
Well I didn't say anything since you've got a fuckton of other stuff going on, but MAIL IT ALREADY!
Thanks.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 05:06:33 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:02:15 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Not at all.
I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.
I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.
But are you the kind of person who would go into giving a massage at all? Or working with people and their bodies at all? You said you wouldn't, right? Well, that is your prerogative.
No, I'd do massage, I'd do medical stuff, the works. I've picked up mangey DOGS and brought the home and made them ok again.
I didn't jack the dogs off, though, no matter how much it would have made their day. And I wouldn't jack off some random perv.
Big difference in a want and a need. Handjobs are a want.
I disagree that a lack of sexual touch is a want and not a need, but I have no learning and facts to back that up, so I'll bow out here.
Wait. So the curiosity got a hold of me and I looked at that site that lists massage parlors in your area. And... um.. is this happy ending thing NORMAL for these places? Wtf?
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
All my favorite people have no problem getting laid. :?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:34:59 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
All my favorite people have no problem getting laid. :?
Uhhh
in-group bias, anyone?
So far we have really only talked about happy endings for men. I am curious about how people here feel about the increasingly common practice of happy endings for women? Same? Different? Why?
http://www.herprivatepleasures.com/
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:47:09 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 12:14:21 AM
OK, why would anybody making decent money doing massage, who hasn't gotten themselves into financial hot water, suddenly decide they want to include hand jobs for everybody if not for the extra money? How can there NOT be some kind of duress?
There are people, who are few and far between because this society does not make this an easily attainable place to be, who do sex therapy work. These are not prostitutes, although they are often called that; they are skilled and educated professionals who believe that there are men and women who need their skills and their services. This comes from a place of compassion and service, and not from a place of subjugation or desperation; just as there are tens of thousands of people who work for twelve dollars an hour doing social work, some of the most horrendously depressing work there is, with their $70,000 in student loan debt to earn an MSW.
I'm sort of leaning in this direction. The social/power dynamic around sex is totally fucked up, which makes any attempt of sexual therapy a pretty rough road to travel. But the actions themselves are not morally wrong, nor inevitably damaging.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
So far we have really only talked about happy endings for men. I am curious about how people here feel about the increasingly common practice of happy endings for women? Same? Different? Why?
http://www.herprivatepleasures.com/
First thought is that that sounds FUCKING STRESSFUL. 'Oh shit fuck damn, where'd it go!'
But I have heard a bit about this a few times. My impression is that it doesn't seem to be directly comparable in that the men involved tend to have a bit more say in what they do, and have never got the impression that they are likely to be moving into that area as a last resort.
I don't know if any of the places on Alty's 'rubmap' would be able to limit their services to
Quote from: Her Private Pleasuresthose who are height/weight proportional and express sincerity and true interest in their correspondence.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:34:59 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
All my favorite people have no problem getting laid. :?
Uhhh
in-group bias, anyone?
Maybe. But people who are considered "unattractive" always manage to have sex. People work around all kinds of medical conditions to have sex. Poor people have sex, mentally handicapped people have sex, almost any misfortune AT ALL can befall a person, and they still have sex.
So if it's not physical, or economic, or anything shallow like that, what is it in a person that inspires so much revulsion that they become a
total sexual pariah? I really haven't known very many people like that, but the ones I have known were pretty horrible people.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:02:15 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Not at all.
I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.
I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.
Are quadriplegics who want to orgasm also scum? Or just the really lonely people?
Quote from: Hoopla on July 19, 2012, 03:45:58 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:02:15 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:39:47 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 18, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Send 'em down an assembly belt with a cover over them and just their dicks sticking up so the girls don't have to look at them. :lulz:
That's pretty dehumanizing.
So is this http://www.rubmaps.com/
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Not at all.
I'm saying slime like that is only worthy of female attention when they earn it, and they have a longass way to go before they get there.
I wouldn't rub a mans dick who kicked a cat. I sure wouldn't touch these shitnecks with a ten foot pole.
Are quadriplegics who want to orgasm also scum? Or just the really lonely people?
See my last post.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:34:59 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
All my favorite people have no problem getting laid. :?
Uhhh
in-group bias, anyone?
Maybe. But people who are considered "unattractive" always manage to have sex. People work around all kinds of medical conditions to have sex. Poor people have sex, mentally handicapped people have sex, almost any misfortune AT ALL can befall a person, and they still have sex.
So if it's not physical, or economic, or anything shallow like that, what is it in a person that inspires so much revulsion that they become a total sexual pariah? I really haven't known very many people like that, but the ones I have known were pretty horrible people.
There are people here on this board who have gone extended periods of time without being able to get laid. Years, even.
There are people who are extremely shy or socially awkward who have a hard time connecting with other people.
There are people with mental or physical disabilities, people who are old or isolated or have had trauma, people who are recently divorced or in the process of divorce and don't want to inflict their mess on another person, married people whose spouses are traveling or hospitalized, who have no desire to have an affair or pick up a one-night stand but who still need sexual contact, and a massage with sexual release provides that contact in a totally safe, controlled environment.
You are probably aware of my position on prostitution. I am not justifying prostitution as we know it. I am saying that in a better, more egalitarian, more compassionate society, I can see a place where sex services could hold a respected place in much the same way other human services do.
Also, men who patronize prostitutes tend not to be quadraplegics or sexual "charity cases". As a rule they tend to be married and into secretly degrading women. Look at the guys Aileen Wuornos killed. :x
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:05:07 PM
Also, men who patronize prostitutes tend not to be quadraplegics or sexual "charity cases". As a rule they tend to be married and into secretly degrading women. Look at the guys Aileen Wuornos killed. :x
Men who patronize prostitutes tend to be either sexually compulsive or very lonely. But that's not what we're talking about. Are you capable of turning off your filter enough to have a conversation about the topic at hand?
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:34:59 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
All my favorite people have no problem getting laid. :?
Uhhh
in-group bias, anyone?
Maybe. But people who are considered "unattractive" always manage to have sex. People work around all kinds of medical conditions to have sex. Poor people have sex, mentally handicapped people have sex, almost any misfortune AT ALL can befall a person, and they still have sex.
So if it's not physical, or economic, or anything shallow like that, what is it in a person that inspires so much revulsion that they become a total sexual pariah? I really haven't known very many people like that, but the ones I have known were pretty horrible people.
There are people here on this board who have gone extended periods of time without being able to get laid. Years, even.
There are people who are extremely shy or socially awkward who have a hard time connecting with other people.
There are people with mental or physical disabilities, people who are old or isolated or have had trauma, people who are recently divorced or in the process of divorce and don't want to inflict their mess on another person, married people whose spouses are traveling or hospitalized, who have no desire to have an affair or pick up a one-night stand but who still need sexual contact, and a massage with sexual release provides that contact in a totally safe, controlled environment.
You are probably aware of my position on prostitution. I am not justifying prostitution as we know it. I am saying that in a better, more egalitarian, more compassionate society, I can see a place where sex services could hold a respected place in much the same way other human services do.
I don't see an egalitarian, compassionate society for a long time yet. If ever. And I'm not talking about dry spells, I'm talking about creeps.
If a person is starved for contact, there's plenty of social opportunities for non-sexual hugging, etc. If a person wants a nut so bad they can't stand it, there's masturbation.
I don't view sex as a "need". A drive, yes, it can inform a lot more of our decision making process. (Maulaul, anyone? :lol: ) but not a need. If it was a "need", wouldn't rape be justified, the same way stealing food is? (OK, you can go to jail for stealing food, but that's fucked up. I would totally defend somebody who had no option but to steal food.) Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
Quote from: guryaf on July 19, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
They're not.
My point was that food is a need. Sex isn't.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: guryaf on July 19, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
They're not.
My point was that food is a need. Sex isn't.
I disagree. Not all needs are fatal if not indulged. Sex is a need. The weird shit going on in China is evidence of that, if we didn't already know this decades ago.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 AM
Sex is a human drive, for most humans. And along with touch and companionship, lack of sex can make adult humans depressed and irrational. Inability to get laid is not a character flaw in itself.
I agree: see also the work of Wilhelm Reich (they BURNED it it was so threatening).
Also, how do you all feel about the situation where the recipient of the happy ending is female (include both sexes of masseuse)?
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
So far we have really only talked about happy endings for men. I am curious about how people here feel about the increasingly common practice of happy endings for women? Same? Different? Why?
http://www.herprivatepleasures.com/
Well damn, Nigel beat me to it. OK. Still catching up.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:05:07 PM
Also, men who patronize prostitutes tend not to be quadraplegics or sexual "charity cases". As a rule they tend to be married and into secretly degrading women. Look at the guys Aileen Wuornos killed. :x
Men who patronize prostitutes tend to be either sexually compulsive or very lonely. But that's not what we're talking about. Are you capable of turning off your filter enough to have a conversation about the topic at hand?
Sexually compulsive guys who aren't into degrading women just fuck around a lot. They have a lot of regular girlfriends, they care about the girlfriends, they're just not into a monogamous commitment thing. They're generally well-liked. Prostitution is another story. "Get me off and STFU and go away."
And low-rent depressing sex is no remedy for loneliness. If anything, it compounds it.
Quote from: Telarus on July 19, 2012, 04:40:07 PM
Also, how do you all feel about the situation where the recipient of the happy ending is female (include both sexes of masseuse)?
Same thing.
That guy seems to have more autonomy than the female hookers have ("Height weight proportional" = "I'll jack you off for $$$ - NO FAT CHICKS!"...what a prize he is. :horrormirth: ) but it's still creepy.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: guryaf on July 19, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
They're not.
My point was that food is a need. Sex isn't.
I disagree. Not all needs are fatal if not indulged. Sex is a need. The weird shit going on in China is evidence of that, if we didn't already know this decades ago.
Which weird shit? China has TONS of weird shit, hard to sort it all out. :?
Quote from: Telarus on July 19, 2012, 04:40:07 PM
Also, how do you all feel about the situation where the recipient of the happy ending is female (include both sexes of masseuse)?
Irrelevant.
And I'm going to reitterate that my position on this is opinion based on anecdotal observations in a limited area.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:50:48 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: guryaf on July 19, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
They're not.
My point was that food is a need. Sex isn't.
I disagree. Not all needs are fatal if not indulged. Sex is a need. The weird shit going on in China is evidence of that, if we didn't already know this decades ago.
Which weird shit? China has TONS of weird shit, hard to sort it all out. :?
The random stabbing sprees, which are linked to men who have given up on all hope of marrying, due to the incredible disparity in the ratio of men/women.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:50:48 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: guryaf on July 19, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Rape violates another person's free will, but so does stealing someone's food.
I'm not sure those are comparable....
They're not.
My point was that food is a need. Sex isn't.
I disagree. Not all needs are fatal if not indulged. Sex is a need. The weird shit going on in China is evidence of that, if we didn't already know this decades ago.
Which weird shit? China has TONS of weird shit, hard to sort it all out. :?
The random stabbing sprees, which are linked to men who have given up on all hope of marrying, due to the incredible disparity in the ratio of men/women.
Hadn't heard about those, going to google.
Want to say first that you bring up a good point about not all unmet needs causing death. The need for freedom is one. People have a kind of psychological break, Stockholm Syndrome, or institutionalized behaviors.
Just not sure that "no sex" fits this. The stabbing sprees could have other contributing factors, China's fucked up in LOTS of ways. Going to look into it, though.
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Because a lot of people manage to go without it for extended periods without having a psychotic break or going on a stabbing spree.
I'm curious about that. Google turns up individual cases but I can't find anything on it being a trend. I'm wondering if it's simply a matter of not getting laid or if there's other factors involved. The idea that family is vital is pretty ingrained in Chinese culture, isn't the reason they kept all those boys to begin with because they way it's set up over there, you need sons to take care of you when you're old?
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Because a lot of people manage to go without it for extended periods without having a psychotic break or going on a stabbing spree.
I'm curious about that. Google turns up individual cases but I can't find anything on it being a trend. I'm wondering if it's simply a matter of not getting laid or if there's other factors involved. The idea that family is vital is pretty ingrained in Chinese culture, isn't the reason they kept all those boys to begin with because they way it's set up over there, you need sons to take care of you when you're old?
It's so the family name gets to live on.
And depression/irrational behavior =/= stabbing spree.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Because a lot of people manage to go without it for extended periods without having a psychotic break or going on a stabbing spree.
I'm curious about that. Google turns up individual cases but I can't find anything on it being a trend. I'm wondering if it's simply a matter of not getting laid or if there's other factors involved. The idea that family is vital is pretty ingrained in Chinese culture, isn't the reason they kept all those boys to begin with because they way it's set up over there, you need sons to take care of you when you're old?
It's so the family name gets to live on.
And depression/irrational behavior =/= stabbing spree.
No, it doesn't.
And this world is a fucking KALEIDESCOPE of shitty things and tough breaks that can make people depressed and irrational at times. Crappy jobs. The news. Bills. Nickelback.
Sad, but most of us manage to function in spite of it. It just doesn't strike me as critical enough to consider sex a "need".
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 06:57:51 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Because a lot of people manage to go without it for extended periods without having a psychotic break or going on a stabbing spree.
I'm curious about that. Google turns up individual cases but I can't find anything on it being a trend. I'm wondering if it's simply a matter of not getting laid or if there's other factors involved. The idea that family is vital is pretty ingrained in Chinese culture, isn't the reason they kept all those boys to begin with because they way it's set up over there, you need sons to take care of you when you're old?
It's so the family name gets to live on.
And depression/irrational behavior =/= stabbing spree.
No, it doesn't.
And this world is a fucking KALEIDESCOPE of shitty things and tough breaks that can make people depressed and irrational at times. Crappy jobs. The news. Bills. Nickelback.
Sad, but most of us manage to function in spite of it. It just doesn't strike me as critical enough to consider sex a "need".
QuoteSo, in many communities today there are growing numbers of young men in the lower echelons of society who are marginalized because of lack of family prospects and who have little outlet for sexual energy. A number of commentators predict that this situation will lead to increased levels of antisocial behavior and violence and will ultimately present a threat to the stability and security of society (31, 45–49).
There is some empirical evidence to fear such a scenario. Gender is a well-established individual-level correlate of crime, and especially violent crime (50). It is a consistent finding across cultures that an overwhelming percentage of violent crime is perpetrated by young, unmarried, low-status males (50–52). In India, a study carried out between 1980 and 1982 showed a strong correlation between homicide rates in individual states across the country and the sex ratio in those states, after controlling for potential confounders such as urbanization and poverty (53). The authors concluded that there was a clear link between sex ratio and violence as a whole, not just violence against women as might be assumed when there is a shortage of females. These analyses were repeated by Hudson and Den Boer (46), who showed that the relationship between sex ratio and murder rates at the level of the Indian state persisted through the late 1990s. In China, young male migrant workers are thought to be responsible for a disproportionate amount of urban crime, especially violent crime. It is reported that migrants account for 50% of all criminal cases in the major receiving cities for migrants, with some cities reporting up to 80% (54).
From
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569153/
:cluephone:
Phone's ringing Anna. It's your motherfucking limbic system.
Your brain, the one that is actively refusing reality in this "conversation" is only here, right now, in that body of yours because some tiny little mammal a long fucking time ago was able to successfully fuck. You are the product of successful fucking. Your brain, at it's core, wants two thing:
1. Avoid getting killed.
2. Fuck so your DNA carries on.
That's it. Everything else is just a fancy fever dream. True, we build societies, among other things, with those fever dreams. Hell, your fancy frontal lobes are even capable of ignoring the very real demand for sex. But then it releases actual REAL unhappy chemicals that prompt you to look for more.
Needs? We don't need very much. We only NEED to protect out bodies from death. Shelter, food, water. If that's all we need then why the fuck are people so unhappy?
In fact...humm..maybe the reality that America has some of the highest rates of anxiety, depression, and other bad chemical reactions correlates with the intense sexual repression that is just a part of the American Way. Maybe all those people who get sex shoved in their face daily with ads should just STFU and stop whining they're not getting any and be happy they survive at all.
Oh yeah, they CANNOT because their brains are HARDWIRED to fuck, to spread DNA. YOU are the product of this hardwiring.
As for the rest of this conversation...the whole point of my OP was that in this scenario the worker IS in control. As Placid Dingo's link clearly showed these women ARE in control and do get to reject men they don't want to work with. So long as "We reserve the right to refuse anyone" is in place WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
FWIW, I think that, in American culture, if you legalized prostitution you'd probably end up with something like "Jack in a Box" get your goo gone on the go. We would mass produce it and outsource where possible.
Because we can't help it.
ALSO, I care less about justifying sex work (getting or giving) than I care about how to structure sex work so as not to be harmful to either party. PD's example is excellent.
Is the work compassion? Are the guys indulging a need? I don't really care. That shouldn't justify it one way or another. What people willingly do with their bodies in detail does not matter when compared with their right to do so. Kind of like, oh um, dare I say...DRUGS.
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
ALSO, I care less about justifying sex work (getting or giving) than I care about how to structure sex work so as not to be harmful to either party. PD's example is excellent.
Is the work compassion? Are the guys indulging a need? I don't really care. That shouldn't justify it one way or another. What people willingly do with their bodies in detail does not matter when compared with their right to do so. Kind of like, oh um, dare I say...DRUGS.
I agree that a person has the right to do as they please with his/her own body.
Can't argue that part.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 19, 2012, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 06:57:51 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
Because a lot of people manage to go without it for extended periods without having a psychotic break or going on a stabbing spree.
I'm curious about that. Google turns up individual cases but I can't find anything on it being a trend. I'm wondering if it's simply a matter of not getting laid or if there's other factors involved. The idea that family is vital is pretty ingrained in Chinese culture, isn't the reason they kept all those boys to begin with because they way it's set up over there, you need sons to take care of you when you're old?
It's so the family name gets to live on.
And depression/irrational behavior =/= stabbing spree.
No, it doesn't.
And this world is a fucking KALEIDESCOPE of shitty things and tough breaks that can make people depressed and irrational at times. Crappy jobs. The news. Bills. Nickelback.
Sad, but most of us manage to function in spite of it. It just doesn't strike me as critical enough to consider sex a "need".
QuoteSo, in many communities today there are growing numbers of young men in the lower echelons of society who are marginalized because of lack of family prospects and who have little outlet for sexual energy. A number of commentators predict that this situation will lead to increased levels of antisocial behavior and violence and will ultimately present a threat to the stability and security of society (31, 45–49).
There is some empirical evidence to fear such a scenario. Gender is a well-established individual-level correlate of crime, and especially violent crime (50). It is a consistent finding across cultures that an overwhelming percentage of violent crime is perpetrated by young, unmarried, low-status males (50–52). In India, a study carried out between 1980 and 1982 showed a strong correlation between homicide rates in individual states across the country and the sex ratio in those states, after controlling for potential confounders such as urbanization and poverty (53). The authors concluded that there was a clear link between sex ratio and violence as a whole, not just violence against women as might be assumed when there is a shortage of females. These analyses were repeated by Hudson and Den Boer (46), who showed that the relationship between sex ratio and murder rates at the level of the Indian state persisted through the late 1990s. In China, young male migrant workers are thought to be responsible for a disproportionate amount of urban crime, especially violent crime. It is reported that migrants account for 50% of all criminal cases in the major receiving cities for migrants, with some cities reporting up to 80% (54).
From
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569153/
OK, I'll cede that one. Young guys can get crazy, especially in groups. And it says they controlled for "potential confounders such as urbanization and poverty".
It also says the sex industry has expanded in both India and China, but the highest numbers of sex workers are in areas where the sex ratio is least distorted. It's still possible a lot of these guys can go to prostitutes, I don't think
the whole problem is not getting laid in a place where these guys have no hope of
anything but getting old and dying alone, but ok, it definitely contributes.
Whole countries that are mostly poor migrant guys running around are bound to run into trouble for LOTS of reasons, though.
All animals have needs. Animals use instinct to address those needs. Due to our frontal lobes, we have drives to achieve the same thing.
The only difference is that a drive can be denied and an instinct cannot. But they are both mechanisms to address a need.
Mating instinct ----> Sex Drive ----> both address the same need.
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:17:46 PM
FWIW, I think that, in American culture, if you legalized prostitution you'd probably end up with something like "Jack in a Box" get your goo gone on the go. We would mass produce it and outsource where possible.
Because we can't help it.
Once gynodroid robotics and teledildonics advances enough, the girls won't even have to touch the customers!!!!! (Granted, this does kinda remove any chance of infection from point-of-contact...)
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
:cluephone:
Phone's ringing Anna. It's your motherfucking limbic system.
Your brain, the one that is actively refusing reality in this "conversation" is only here, right now, in that body of yours because some tiny little mammal a long fucking time ago was able to successfully fuck. You are the product of successful fucking. Your brain, at it's core, wants two thing:
1. Avoid getting killed.
2. Fuck so your DNA carries on.
That's it. Everything else is just a fancy fever dream. True, we build societies, among other things, with those fever dreams. Hell, your fancy frontal lobes are even capable of ignoring the very real demand for sex. But then it releases actual REAL unhappy chemicals that prompt you to look for more.
Needs? We don't need very much. We only NEED to protect out bodies from death. Shelter, food, water. If that's all we need then why the fuck are people so unhappy?
In fact...humm..maybe the reality that America has some of the highest rates of anxiety, depression, and other bad chemical reactions correlates with the intense sexual repression that is just a part of the American Way. Maybe all those people who get sex shoved in their face daily with ads should just STFU and stop whining they're not getting any and be happy they survive at all.
Oh yeah, they CANNOT because their brains are HARDWIRED to fuck, to spread DNA. YOU are the product of this hardwiring.
As for the rest of this conversation...the whole point of my OP was that in this scenario the worker IS in control. As Placid Dingo's link clearly showed these women ARE in control and do get to reject men they don't want to work with. So long as "We reserve the right to refuse anyone" is in place WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I paid my debt to the species. It's on my kids to pass DNA on at this point. And my limbic system is fine. I feel great.
Have you been to Seguin? I'll be JUST FINE until I can get away for the weekend. Even if it takes months. Hell, if it took YEARS, I still wouldn't fuck any of these people. :lol:
And these women still have to make a living. Turning people down until you get one you ACTUALLY LIKE ENOUGH TO PULL HIS DICK has got to be bad for business.
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
ALSO, I care less about justifying sex work (getting or giving) than I care about how to structure sex work so as not to be harmful to either party. PD's example is excellent.
Is the work compassion? Are the guys indulging a need? I don't really care. That shouldn't justify it one way or another. What people willingly do with their bodies in detail does not matter when compared with their right to do so. Kind of like, oh um, dare I say...DRUGS.
You don't need another person participating to get high, and I never heard of anybody hiring somebody else (who wouldn't have bothered if they weren't getting paid) to get high with them.
Also, don't get me wrong, sex work should be absolutely legal everywhere. The social and economic factors need to be addressd, though. I wonder how many people would be in the sex industry if they could get decent money doing some other work, under good conditions, and/or if there was actually a decent safety net?
Anna, I hate to break it to you, but you're the RWHN in this conversation.
Sorry, chicka.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 08:03:34 PM
Anna, I hate to break it to you, but you're the RWHN in this conversation.
Sorry, chicka.
EWWWWW! *puke* *spit* *puke*
Not attention whoring, though. I really don't see a lot of it.
And not changing my sig to a Michael Jackson song, either.
I'll bow out now before it turns into &HOES&HOES&HOES. :x
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 08:09:06 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 08:03:34 PM
Anna, I hate to break it to you, but you're the RWHN in this conversation.
Sorry, chicka.
EWWWWW! *puke* *spit* *puke*
Not attention whoring, though. I really don't see a lot of it.
And not changing my sig to a Michael Jackson song, either.
You aren't as bad as RWHN and Roger's inflamed ballsacks, but I just thought I'd let you know.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 08:12:50 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 08:09:06 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on July 19, 2012, 08:03:34 PM
Anna, I hate to break it to you, but you're the RWHN in this conversation.
Sorry, chicka.
EWWWWW! *puke* *spit* *puke*
Not attention whoring, though. I really don't see a lot of it.
And not changing my sig to a Michael Jackson song, either.
You aren't as bad as RWHN and Roger's inflamed ballsacks, but I just thought I'd let you know.
Thanks. *hugz*
:)
Quote from: AltyAs for the rest of this conversation...the whole point of my OP was that in this scenario the worker IS in control. As Placid Dingo's link clearly showed these women ARE in control and do get to reject men they don't want to work with.
And I support that, for sure. It seems like it would be a good business model, and due to the AMERICAN DREAM, you could charge extra for it.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 19, 2012, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
:cluephone:
Phone's ringing Anna. It's your motherfucking limbic system.
Your brain, the one that is actively refusing reality in this "conversation" is only here, right now, in that body of yours because some tiny little mammal a long fucking time ago was able to successfully fuck. You are the product of successful fucking. Your brain, at it's core, wants two thing:
1. Avoid getting killed.
2. Fuck so your DNA carries on.
That's it. Everything else is just a fancy fever dream. True, we build societies, among other things, with those fever dreams. Hell, your fancy frontal lobes are even capable of ignoring the very real demand for sex. But then it releases actual REAL unhappy chemicals that prompt you to look for more.
Needs? We don't need very much. We only NEED to protect out bodies from death. Shelter, food, water. If that's all we need then why the fuck are people so unhappy?
In fact...humm..maybe the reality that America has some of the highest rates of anxiety, depression, and other bad chemical reactions correlates with the intense sexual repression that is just a part of the American Way. Maybe all those people who get sex shoved in their face daily with ads should just STFU and stop whining they're not getting any and be happy they survive at all.
Oh yeah, they CANNOT because their brains are HARDWIRED to fuck, to spread DNA. YOU are the product of this hardwiring.
As for the rest of this conversation...the whole point of my OP was that in this scenario the worker IS in control. As Placid Dingo's link clearly showed these women ARE in control and do get to reject men they don't want to work with. So long as "We reserve the right to refuse anyone" is in place WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I paid my debt to the species. It's on my kids to pass DNA on at this point. And my limbic system is fine. I feel great.
Have you been to Seguin? I'll be JUST FINE until I can get away for the weekend. Even if it takes months. Hell, if it took YEARS, I still wouldn't fuck any of these people. :lol:
And these women still have to make a living. Turning people down until you get one you ACTUALLY LIKE ENOUGH TO PULL HIS DICK has got to be bad for business.
Quote from: Alty on July 19, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
ALSO, I care less about justifying sex work (getting or giving) than I care about how to structure sex work so as not to be harmful to either party. PD's example is excellent.
Is the work compassion? Are the guys indulging a need? I don't really care. That shouldn't justify it one way or another. What people willingly do with their bodies in detail does not matter when compared with their right to do so. Kind of like, oh um, dare I say...DRUGS.
You don't need another person participating to get high, and I never heard of anybody hiring somebody else (who wouldn't have bothered if they weren't getting paid) to get high with them.
Also, don't get me wrong, sex work should be absolutely legal everywhere. The social and economic factors need to be addressd, though. I wonder how many people would be in the sex industry if they could get decent money doing some other work, under good conditions, and/or if there was actually a decent safety net?
I'm not saying your limbic system is not fine. I'm saying you have one, just like everyone else and its very real chemical impulses create a very real need for sex.
Your brain doesn't care if your kids are passing off DNA. Your brain cares about their survival, but it cares more about spreading your own genetic code. The point I'm making isn't about you personally. It's about how we don't have a choice in our desire for sex.
As to the second bolded part: THANK YOU. That is precisely what i've been trying to say since the OP.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
Sex is an evolutionary biological urge. Sex, and by association physical contact, triggers an enormous biochemical edocrine cascade of hormones that affect the body and brain, and ultimately, the way we feel, behave, and function.
I am really puzzled why you would think that something which has been wired so deeply in our bodies and minds for billions of years is somehow not a "need".
This.
The ramifications of being deprived of sexual contact, specifically compassionate sexual contact (note that this does not include and has nothing to do with rape; people do not rape because they are desperate, but because they want to control, punish, or subjugate, none of which are related to sexual needs), in most adults, are comparable to the ramifications of being deprived of compassionate touch or companionship. Depression, pessimism, and increased rates of illness.
Which brings me to the next point; how many of these "creeps who can't get laid" have become creepy and weird as a result of inadequate sexual contact?
In my experience, the real creeps... the date rapists, fondlers, molesters, etc... are not men who can't get laid. Most of them are charming, appealing, and can carry on a conversation. These are not typical representatives of the guys who resort to prostitutes.
Some men go to prostitutes recreationally. I can't say that I approve or will ever approve of that. But I am saying that typifying the average john as a horrible person is... well, it's wrong. They may be damaged people, but the majority aren't rapists or batterers.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 20, 2012, 02:46:22 AM
Which brings me to the next point; how many of these "creeps who can't get laid" have become creepy and weird as a result of inadequate sexual contact?
Perhaps some.
Oddly enough, the least dangerous ones, I think.
I talked with someone who was a highly paid 'escort'. In their line of work the customers are successful businessmen that simply don't have time for relationships. Geerally involved buying lots of presents, having nice meals at nice hotels and some kind of sexual contact, but not generally 'just sex'. She seemed perfectly happy with the business.
Not typical, or even comparable to some poor girl on the street getting pimped out to anyone with enough cash to cover an hour... but still a form of the sex industry where this person (and according to her everyone she knew at her agency) were very happy and liked what they did.
I think it might be possible to have an ethical form of the sex industry... but not on a street corner.
In a lot ways this issue is similar to abortion in that it's going to happen either way. Men are going to do it, and other people are going to offer it. When you make it illegal you force people to carry it out in unsafe ways.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 20, 2012, 11:09:52 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 20, 2012, 02:46:22 AM
Which brings me to the next point; how many of these "creeps who can't get laid" have become creepy and weird as a result of inadequate sexual contact?
Perhaps some.
Oddly enough, the least dangerous ones, I think.
Statistically speaking, the non-dangerous ones are the majority.
Quote from: Alty on July 21, 2012, 12:07:50 AM
In a lot ways this issue is similar to abortion in that it's going to happen either way. Men are going to do it, and other people are going to offer it. When you make it illegal you force people to carry it out in unsafe ways.
Yes; criminalization is a reflection of the culture of sexual subjugation of women and of sex.
WE MUST CONTROL THEM.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 20, 2012, 11:54:45 PM
I talked with someone who was a highly paid 'escort'. In their line of work the customers are successful businessmen that simply don't have time for relationships. Geerally involved buying lots of presents, having nice meals at nice hotels and some kind of sexual contact, but not generally 'just sex'. She seemed perfectly happy with the business.
Not typical, or even comparable to some poor girl on the street getting pimped out to anyone with enough cash to cover an hour... but still a form of the sex industry where this person (and according to her everyone she knew at her agency) were very happy and liked what they did.
I think it might be possible to have an ethical form of the sex industry... but not on a street corner.
Speaking as a social scientist, this anecdote is largely meaningless. I may agree with your conclusion, but your anecdote disincludes those who have left the job, those who have had negative experiences, and those who are unhappy but don't express discontent because of worry about losing their job. As an instrument of measure it is without value.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
So far we have really only talked about happy endings for men. I am curious about how people here feel about the increasingly common practice of happy endings for women? Same? Different? Why?
http://www.herprivatepleasures.com/
Different in that it is far less likely that the man giving her a happy ending has been trafficked into the country, and if she goes into a place expecting a happy ending and doesn't get one she is far less likely to rape him.
The differences are less than the similarities though.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 21, 2012, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 20, 2012, 11:54:45 PM
I talked with someone who was a highly paid 'escort'. In their line of work the customers are successful businessmen that simply don't have time for relationships. Geerally involved buying lots of presents, having nice meals at nice hotels and some kind of sexual contact, but not generally 'just sex'. She seemed perfectly happy with the business.
Not typical, or even comparable to some poor girl on the street getting pimped out to anyone with enough cash to cover an hour... but still a form of the sex industry where this person (and according to her everyone she knew at her agency) were very happy and liked what they did.
I think it might be possible to have an ethical form of the sex industry... but not on a street corner.
Speaking as a social scientist, this anecdote is largely meaningless. I may agree with your conclusion, but your anecdote disincludes those who have left the job, those who have had negative experiences, and those who are unhappy but don't express discontent because of worry about losing their job. As an instrument of measure it is without value.
Well I guess theres also the consideration of why Rat posted that story. I think he was trying to point out that an ethical and desirable sex industry is possible not that it's typical. Same as why I posted those quotes; to show attempts at doing the right thing.
As far as anecdotes go I think it was pretty useful. Most people think "prostitute" and hold a very firm image in their minds, it's good to break those images apart.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on July 21, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 19, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
So far we have really only talked about happy endings for men. I am curious about how people here feel about the increasingly common practice of happy endings for women? Same? Different? Why?
http://www.herprivatepleasures.com/
Different in that it is far less likely that the man giving her a happy ending has been trafficked into the country, and if she goes into a place expecting a happy ending and doesn't get one she is far less likely to rape him.
The differences are less than the similarities though.
Id certainly suggest otherwise.
Also on what Nigel's saying I dont think shes wrong. Im just saying that the reason Rat told that story was to make a point about what is possible not to prove anything.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 22, 2012, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 21, 2012, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 20, 2012, 11:54:45 PM
I talked with someone who was a highly paid 'escort'. In their line of work the customers are successful businessmen that simply don't have time for relationships. Geerally involved buying lots of presents, having nice meals at nice hotels and some kind of sexual contact, but not generally 'just sex'. She seemed perfectly happy with the business.
Not typical, or even comparable to some poor girl on the street getting pimped out to anyone with enough cash to cover an hour... but still a form of the sex industry where this person (and according to her everyone she knew at her agency) were very happy and liked what they did.
I think it might be possible to have an ethical form of the sex industry... but not on a street corner.
Speaking as a social scientist, this anecdote is largely meaningless. I may agree with your conclusion, but your anecdote disincludes those who have left the job, those who have had negative experiences, and those who are unhappy but don't express discontent because of worry about losing their job. As an instrument of measure it is without value.
Well I guess theres also the consideration of why Rat posted that story. I think he was trying to point out that an ethical and desirable sex industry is possible not that it's typical. Same as why I posted those quotes; to show attempts at doing the right thing.
Hm, I didn't pick that up. I mostly just picked up on the "happy hooker" trope, which is definitely out there. You know, the jolly madam in her house full of happy hookers with a heart of gold. I tend to view with great suspicion stories where "all the girls are happy with their job" and "I knew a perfectly happy well-adjusted girl who prostituted herself because she liked it".
I think it's good to have positive examples, but there's no such thing as a workplace of any kind with 100% worker satisfaction, so that right there makes me go "hmmmm".
Also, when I worked for Lip Service, I only had positive things to say about them and the job. It was in my contract.
(The agency actually was really great. The job was soul-draining and depressing, but the agency and people who worked there tried really hard to make up for it).
If you want to hear an accurate picture of what it's like in those upscale escort services, talk to someone who used to do it. As it happens, my friend JB in Oakland runs a promotional consultation service for high-rent hookers; I go drinking with him and his ladies while visiting, and have heard a lot of stories.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 21, 2012, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: Alty on July 21, 2012, 12:07:50 AM
In a lot ways this issue is similar to abortion in that it's going to happen either way. Men are going to do it, and other people are going to offer it. When you make it illegal you force people to carry it out in unsafe ways.
Yes; criminalization is a reflection of the culture of sexual subjugation of women and of sex.
WE MUST CONTROL THEM.
I am against criminalization of prostitution, I think I've mentioned that.
However, I think pimps should be run through a chipper, feet first.
IN PRINCIPLE, if the sex worker has agency, right of refusal, isn't doing it out of a rock and a hard place situation/ Morton's Fork (the philosophical term for do this or starve type situation) and is psychologically healthy and has the capacity emotionally to deal with it and not become traumatized then I am in no opposition to it.
Personally, because of the ethical side, and it being done ethically is pretty much a unicorn, I am in favour of something called the Nordic Model, when it comes to prostitution, where the women aren't prosecuted, but it is illegal to buy sex, the prosecutions usually involve fines that are earmarked for supporting women to get out of prostitution, and has been shown in Sweden to have reduced trafficking of women. Pimps find it hard to operate in such conditions, it becomes too financially prohibitive to exploit women, whereas legalisation has been shown in places like Amsterdam to have the opposite effect. Licensing prostitutes, because of the stigma attached to selling sex isn't an incentive to be registered. If eventually our culture and its attitudes toward sex change to a more positive dynamic, as Nigel states, then regulation and legalisation would be an option I would support.
A sexual service that comes from a compassionate or therapeutic place is something that if it meets the principles of agency, I would be all for, as long as the worker's right of refusal is the primary concern of such a business in terms of how the staff get treated. If Dingo's Herp Derp parlour is actually run on these principles, then awesome, however I am a suspicious and cynical creature, and maybe my own cognitive bias on this makes me feel that there might be a touch of the propaganda about it.
For now though, until we have achieved a shift in attitudes and conciousness, I am going to stick to the prosecute the purchaser, not the sex worker stance, or until someone can provide evidence that licencing and regulation actually can respect the agency of the sex worker.
I can sympathize with the means of taking up prostitution if the person hiring themselves out are in a major mess and need quick financial security but i do think there must be better more ethical ways of getting money fast.