I thought I had more, but after some thought, it really boiled down one (possibly redundant why-are-you-asking-of-course-I-am!) question: I realize this isn't a Movement or a Cause, but as an idea, are you intending, on top of it being your individual behavior, to critique society?
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:12:52 AM
I thought I had more, but after some thought, it really boiled down one (possibly redundant why-are-you-asking-of-course-I-am!) question: I realize this isn't a Movement or a Cause, but as an idea, are you intending, on top of it being your individual behavior, to critique society?
Not any more. It doesn't do any good. I mean, I'll still laugh at shit, but I am for the forseeable future operating at an individual level. If I SEE shit, I'll react to it...But I'm not going looking for it.
Mostly, I think, because I don't seem to agree with many people on what "eglatarianism" IS.
To me, it's the following: All humans are people until proven otherwise
1. All humans have the same rights.
That's it.
1 You have to be in the Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot club to prove yourself not human.
For me it comes back to a fragment of my Catholic upbringing.
"Do onto others as you would have them do to you"
Prediction: this will lead to at least another three spinoff threads, where the same song and dance that happened in the previous threads will inevitably occur.
I am Cain and the colour of my money is....uh, well, this note is orangey and the other is purple. So, £30? To Doctor's Without Borders. If I'm wrong, which I won't be.
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:12:52 AM
I thought I had more, but after some thought, it really boiled down one (possibly redundant why-are-you-asking-of-course-I-am!) question: I realize this isn't a Movement or a Cause, but as an idea, are you intending, on top of it being your individual behavior, to critique society?
Not any more. It doesn't do any good. I mean, I'll still laugh at shit, but I am for the forseeable future operating at an individual level. If I SEE shit, I'll react to it...But I'm not going looking for it.
Mostly, I think, because I don't seem to agree with many people on what "eglatarianism" IS.
To me, it's the following: All humans are people until proven otherwise1. All humans have the same rights.
That's it.
1 You have to be in the Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot club to prove yourself not human.
Is there a reason you use that spelling? At first I assumed it was a typo but you use it consistently.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:57:47 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:12:52 AM
I thought I had more, but after some thought, it really boiled down one (possibly redundant why-are-you-asking-of-course-I-am!) question: I realize this isn't a Movement or a Cause, but as an idea, are you intending, on top of it being your individual behavior, to critique society?
Not any more. It doesn't do any good. I mean, I'll still laugh at shit, but I am for the forseeable future operating at an individual level. If I SEE shit, I'll react to it...But I'm not going looking for it.
Mostly, I think, because I don't seem to agree with many people on what "eglatarianism" IS.
To me, it's the following: All humans are people until proven otherwise1. All humans have the same rights.
That's it.
1 You have to be in the Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot club to prove yourself not human.
Is there a reason you use that spelling? At first I assumed it was a typo but you use it consistently.
Not really. Spelled it wrong.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
One or the other. I don't care.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I wasn't offended (because yeah, if you get offended, you lose). I simply wanted to point out what the word ultimately does and maybe encourage some people to think about it.
But anyway, to combat shitty behavior on your own level, you have to realize what that shitty behavior *is*, yes? And like I said, some of that shit is subtle and insidious and not immediately evident. Would you be looking out for those subtle behaviors? (not suggesting that you call them out, necessarily, but just asking a question).
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
This isn't so much about the content, but the user audience. Before the handover from Lauren the site was completely not work safe, offensive, with a lot of stuff that would upset the current audience.
It's a tradeoff between complete posting liberty and having a wider audience, we're no longer using that model. I haven't explicitly seen any rape jokes here but they don't really mesh.
The initial mission plan after the handover was complete posting liberty as long as what is read is worksafe and legal. As time has gone by it's become more complex with some other rules added.
We would rather the site remain self policing, if someone makes a rape joke for example they should be called on it by others, preferrably not mods, its not something we should have a rule against. For more blatently shocking stuff that could get people into trouble we will intervene but we would rather not have to.
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:13:48 PM
This isn't so much about the content, but the user audience. Before the handover from Lauren the site was completely not work safe, offensive, with a lot of stuff that would upset the current audience.
It's a tradeoff between complete posting liberty and having a wider audience, we're no longer using that model. I haven't explicitly seen any rape jokes here but they don't really mesh.
The initial mission plan after the handover was complete posting liberty as long as what is read is worksafe and legal. As time has gone by it's become more complex with some other rules added.
We would rather the site remain self policing, if someone makes a rape joke for example they should be called on it by others, preferrably not mods, its not something we should have a rule against. For more blatently shocking stuff that could get people into trouble we will intervene but we would rather not have to.
I was using rape jokes as an example, I wasn't complaining about people making rape jokes at the expense of the victim on peedee.
it's the
reactions that I'm making the point on, because by and large it has been the same kind of response I get from a lot of people when in IRL I make the point about rape jokes when we were talking about gendered insults. I was trying to draw a parallel.
Am I really being so vague that what I am trying to say is unclear? it didn't seem so in the Reddit Rapist thread.
Oh, and I've just rephrased my point for the 100th time.
Fuck this shit, it seems pretty futile.
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
Whether you deal with it or not, the world is still full of assholes.
Regardless of how much you talk about it or how aware of it you are, the world is still full of assholes
Speaking personally, I'm hyper aware of the assholes thing already, I'm bored talking about it but, if and when you're done with the talking and the awareness thing, come and have a chat about how to deal with the asshole problem. Oh wait, that's right, you're not interested in dealing, just talking and being aware, right?
Personally I'm more interested in pissing off assholes using the power of my middle finger than arguing over taxonomy but it's a free country. Have your burger however you want it.
Faust, i dont think anyone is making a case for censorship of ideas and expressions.
Thats all im going to say.
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:13:48 PM
This isn't so much about the content, but the user audience. Before the handover from Lauren the site was completely not work safe, offensive, with a lot of stuff that would upset the current audience.
It's a tradeoff between complete posting liberty and having a wider audience, we're no longer using that model. I haven't explicitly seen any rape jokes here but they don't really mesh.
The initial mission plan after the handover was complete posting liberty as long as what is read is worksafe and legal. As time has gone by it's become more complex with some other rules added.
We would rather the site remain self policing, if someone makes a rape joke for example they should be called on it by others, preferrably not mods, its not something we should have a rule against. For more blatently shocking stuff that could get people into trouble we will intervene but we would rather not have to.
I was using rape jokes as an example, I wasn't complaining about people making rape jokes at the expense of the victim on peedee.
it's the reactions that I'm making the point on, because by and large it has been the same kind of response I get from a lot of people when in IRL I make the point about rape jokes when we were talking about gendered insults. I was trying to draw a parallel.
Am I really being so vague that what I am trying to say is unclear? it didn't seem so in the Reddit Rapist thread.
Oh, and I've just rephrased my point for the 100th time.
Fuck this shit, it seems pretty futile.
Sorry if I misunderstood,
I think I get it, the focus on the reactions people give when confronted on as you called them gendered insults, most people automatically get on the defensive. The argument they make is often as you said self sensorship and the distain for it.
I'm I getting closer now?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
Whether you deal with it or not, the world is still full of assholes.
Regardless of how much you talk about it or how aware of it you are, the world is still full of assholes
Speaking personally, I'm hyper aware of the assholes thing already, I'm bored talking about it but, if and when you're done with the talking and the awareness thing, come and have a chat about how to deal with the asshole problem. Oh wait, that's right, you're not interested in dealing, just talking and being aware, right?
Personally I'm more interested in pissing off assholes using the power of my middle finger than arguing over taxonomy but it's a free country. Have your burger however you want it.
who says I'm not interested in fixing shit? where have I demonstrated or said that? You cannot understand what needs fixing and why without a discussion though,
especially if it is not something that is in yours or someone close to you's direct experience. Telling Garbo to hack her own head is fine, but if you stop there and don't call your friends out on creepy behaviour so we don't always HAVE to second guess our instincts and we can all get laid with respectful impunity later down the line. Not understanding how something works leads to trying to fix a puncture with a stiletto knife.
When someone "fixes" an issue without actually taking into account the experience of the people on the receiving end of it you get all the shit with ATOS and disability and sickness benefits, where you get an arbitrary score that decides how much money or help you get, with no nuance or understanding of conditions that fluctuate, and people being deemed fit to work whilst they are in fucking comas, or having their money being taken away because they were in hospital having spinal surgery, and some asshat didn't send the documented proof to the right person. You can't fix something unless you understand how it is broken, and the needs of the people that experience that broken piece of the social ecosystem.
Gah, I wish I could make all dudes women for a year on their 25th birthday, and have them report back on how it feels to walk a mile in crippling heels. Because the playing with the boobs thing would probably get old after the first couple weeks, and maybe it would help some.
actually fuck this noise. I'm going around in circles and I could probably be enjoying something else instead of getting frustrated.
I'll just go back to posting emoticons, one liners and mittens, and having someone moan that we have no content.
In my experience none of these things ever make it past the planning stage. Something about being too busy arguing about what the problem is, who's to blame and how best to go about solving it. These arguments go round in circles, on earth just as it is in internets and nothing changes and, lo and behold, the world is still full of assholes.
So I'm sorry but no, I'm not interested in dialogue and establishing just exactly what flavour of indignant butthurt everyone is operating with and how diddums can't hold up their middle finger cos they hurted it.
If hacking your own head is difficult, hacking a planet full of heads that don't want to be hacked is the last word in futility.
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:13:48 PM
This isn't so much about the content, but the user audience. Before the handover from Lauren the site was completely not work safe, offensive, with a lot of stuff that would upset the current audience.
It's a tradeoff between complete posting liberty and having a wider audience, we're no longer using that model. I haven't explicitly seen any rape jokes here but they don't really mesh.
The initial mission plan after the handover was complete posting liberty as long as what is read is worksafe and legal. As time has gone by it's become more complex with some other rules added.
We would rather the site remain self policing, if someone makes a rape joke for example they should be called on it by others, preferrably not mods, its not something we should have a rule against. For more blatently shocking stuff that could get people into trouble we will intervene but we would rather not have to.
I was using rape jokes as an example, I wasn't complaining about people making rape jokes at the expense of the victim on peedee.
it's the reactions that I'm making the point on, because by and large it has been the same kind of response I get from a lot of people when in IRL I make the point about rape jokes when we were talking about gendered insults. I was trying to draw a parallel.
Am I really being so vague that what I am trying to say is unclear? it didn't seem so in the Reddit Rapist thread.
Oh, and I've just rephrased my point for the 100th time.
Fuck this shit, it seems pretty futile.
Sorry if I misunderstood,
I think I get it, the focus on the reactions people give when confronted on as you called them gendered insults, most people automatically get on the defensive. The argument they make is often as you said self sensorship and the distain for it.
I'm I getting closer now?
Pretty much, but where it falls down is that self-censorship isn't really censorship, it's just thinking before you open your fat gob on whether what you are going to say will make you seem like an asshole.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
In my experience none of these things ever make it past the planning stage. Something about being too busy arguing about what the problem is, who's to blame and how best to go about solving it. These arguments go round in circles, on earth just as it is in internets and nothing changes and, lo and behold, the world is still full of assholes.
So I'm sorry but no, I'm not interested in dialogue and establishing just exactly what flavour of indignant butthurt everyone is operating with and how diddums can't hold up their middle finger cos they hurted it.
If hacking your own head is difficult, hacking a planet full of heads that don't want to be hacked is the last word in futility.
And coming across as a patronising and condescending jerkass doesn't help the situation either.
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
Pretty much, but where it falls down is that self-censorship isn't really censorship, it's just thinking before you open your fat gob on whether what you are going to say will make you seem like an asshole.
Yes. This plus whether you want to seem like an asshole to whomever. I won't use the C-word in front of someone I judge as being nice and likely to be offended by it. I don't want to offend some people. Other people? Assholes, f'rinstance - hell yeah, I want to make their ears bleed. That shit is just plain funny. Horses for courses.
Usually it's pretty straightforward - I'll use a word, because it's one that I use regularly and someone will ask me not to cos it bugs them. Will I use it again? Depends how they ask. If they're polite about it, and put it to me as a request then, yeah I can respect that. I'll try to stop saying it while I'm around them. If they get all condescendy and lectury and go off on some hobby horse about how I'm what's wrong with the world then it's middle finger time.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
So I'm sorry but no, I'm not interested in dialogue and establishing just exactly what flavour of indignant butthurt everyone is operating with and how diddums can't hold up their middle finger cos they hurted it.
Congratulations on achieving greyface, pent. Or possibly French citizenship.
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on August 20, 2012, 04:21:41 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
So I'm sorry but no, I'm not interested in dialogue and establishing just exactly what flavour of indignant butthurt everyone is operating with and how diddums can't hold up their middle finger cos they hurted it.
Congratulations on achieving greyface, pent. Or possibly French citizenship.
Thanks. Better to be compared to the French than the fucking Cambodians.
:mullet:
For me, its all about fixing myself. Just like any other aspect of my life. Self-analysis and modification of my BiP. If I happen to be able to encourage a change in someone elses BiP, great... if not, well its their prison, I can't force it to change. Critiquing society is something that I see as core to Discordianism. I see two critiques of society in this discussion. The first is using words that may unintentionally offend others. The second is getting offended by words, rather than actions.
I've never bought into the idea that we could 'fix' people through Discordianism. I think people have to fix themselves. Discordianism provides a nice set of props and memes and ideas that can be used to discuss, jar or encourage changes in others, but I think that's about as far as it goes. I feel similarly about Egalitarianism. I know how I want to see the world and I will spend my life trying my best to see the world that way. I hope that my world view is contagious and other people choose to do the same, but I don't think its something I can enforce. I would love to see some Discordian writings on some of the topics we've discussed. I think they'd make excellent content for Discordian literature. They might even help some poor spag that reads them.
On the topic of butthurt and being disappointed in Discordianism... welcome to the world of Discordianism. Some people think that ideas like magic (the psychology), drugs, libertarian philosophy, anarchism etc etc are all important topics in their Discordianism. Sometimes they find other Discordians that agree, sometimes they find Discordians that poomp on such ideas. That's Discordianism. Hell, that we got 50 pages without devolving into a shouting match and dozens of pictures or bad porn trying to get people to STFU seems like a huge win in my book.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
Yes but in critiquing society, can we not do so without eating the menu? Is it possible to see broad inequality, remedy those to the extent that each us as individuals can, without getting bogged down in the "appropriate" verbiage to use when interacting with Lesbian Midget Eskimo Albinos?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
THIS!
Forgive me for taking what I consider to be great life advice from an 80's thrash band but:
QuoteJust cause you don't understand what's going on
...don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it,
...don't mean it ain't no good
And let me tell you something
Before you go taking a walk in my world,
...you better take a look at the real world
Cause this ain't no Mr. Rogers Neighborhood
Can you say "feel like shit?"
Yea maybe sometimes I do feel like shit
I ain't happy about it, but I'd rather feel like shit
...than be full of shit!
And if I offended you, Oh I'm sorry
But, maybe you needed to be offended
But here's my apology and one more thing...Fuck you!
Cause you can't bring me down
What appears to me to be the proper friction in all these threads is the lack of an acknowledgement that the signal is independent from the receiver. If the signal offends you, that's YOUR OFFENSE. The signal is not offensive, the sender is not offending you, you have offense...that's it. Discordianism, to my mind, places a clear distinction between what's out there and how each us takes what's out there.
Egalitarianism to me means, quite simply, I'm responsible for what I put out, I'm responsible for how I receive what's put out, I'm responsible for my mind for my self, and fuck the rest. I respect others to be quite the same and if they tell me they think I'm being an asshole I weigh it and say, "Good point, I'll stop," or "Fuck off."
Does that mean inequality's all in our head? Fuck no. It simply means that inequality's not going to be remedied by toeing any lines. It's only going to be remedied when each all every one of us does what the fuck we want...and when that is the whole of the law.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 20, 2012, 05:30:28 PM
What appears to me to be the proper friction in all these threads is the lack of an acknowledgement that the signal is independent from the receiver. If the signal offends you, that's YOUR OFFENSE. The signal is not offensive, the sender is not offending you, you have offense...that's it. Discordianism, to my mind, places a clear distinction between what's out there and how each us takes what's out there.
Egalitarianism to me means, quite simply, I'm responsible for what I put out, I'm responsible for how I receive what's put out, I'm responsible for my mind for my self, and fuck the rest. I respect others to be quite the same and if they tell me they think I'm being an asshole I weigh it and say, "Good point, I'll stop," or "Fuck off."
Does that mean inequality's all in our head? Fuck no. It simply means that inequality's not going to be remedied by toeing any lines. It's only going to be remedied when each all every one of us does what the fuck we want...and when that is the whole of the law.
:mittens:
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 20, 2012, 02:13:48 PM
This isn't so much about the content, but the user audience. Before the handover from Lauren the site was completely not work safe, offensive, with a lot of stuff that would upset the current audience.
It's a tradeoff between complete posting liberty and having a wider audience, we're no longer using that model. I haven't explicitly seen any rape jokes here but they don't really mesh.
The initial mission plan after the handover was complete posting liberty as long as what is read is worksafe and legal. As time has gone by it's become more complex with some other rules added.
We would rather the site remain self policing, if someone makes a rape joke for example they should be called on it by others, preferrably not mods, its not something we should have a rule against. For more blatently shocking stuff that could get people into trouble we will intervene but we would rather not have to.
I was using rape jokes as an example, I wasn't complaining about people making rape jokes at the expense of the victim on peedee.
it's the reactions that I'm making the point on, because by and large it has been the same kind of response I get from a lot of people when in IRL I make the point about rape jokes when we were talking about gendered insults. I was trying to draw a parallel.
Am I really being so vague that what I am trying to say is unclear? it didn't seem so in the Reddit Rapist thread.
Oh, and I've just rephrased my point for the 100th time.
Fuck this shit, it seems pretty futile.
Sorry if I misunderstood,
I think I get it, the focus on the reactions people give when confronted on as you called them gendered insults, most people automatically get on the defensive. The argument they make is often as you said self sensorship and the distain for it.
I'm I getting closer now?
Pretty much, but where it falls down is that self-censorship isn't really censorship, it's just thinking before you open your fat gob on whether what you are going to say will make you seem like an asshole.
I buy that. Aside from gender insults the only circumstance where it would be different is when you want to seem like an asshole, with people you want to offend.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
Pretty much, but where it falls down is that self-censorship isn't really censorship, it's just thinking before you open your fat gob on whether what you are going to say will make you seem like an asshole.
Usually it's pretty straightforward - I'll use a word, because it's one that I use regularly and someone will ask me not to cos it bugs them. Will I use it again? Depends how they ask. If they're polite about it, and put it to me as a request then, yeah I can respect that. I'll try to stop saying it while I'm around them. If they get all condescendy and lectury and go off on some hobby horse about how I'm what's wrong with the world then it's middle finger time.
THAT-THAT-THAT-THAT!!!!
Tell me you're offended by something I've said and I'm like "hell, at least you're taking responsibility for the offense." Tell me that I'm being offensive and I'll generally correct you by showing you exactly what me being offensive looks like. It's a little knee-jerk, but then again, FUCK YOU!
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
Yes. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. No matter what I write, it gets glossed over or ignored and it keeps coming back to the same bullshit privilege and entitlement, and the men who DO get what we're saying don't seem very willing to speak up, and the whole situation, being that this is the response from some of the most intelligent. forward-thinking, and enlightened men I know, makes me doubtful that gender equality will ever be possible. It makes me feel sad and tired, and wonder if this is perhaps just not the place for me. It's one thing when I toughen up and take it like a man, but it certainly turns into something else when I start talking about being a woman and the struggle for egalitarianism.
Well, im not about to dig thru 50 pages of drama and carefully citate people to make a point that will likely get ignored or provoke more anger, when im barely keeping up with reading it.
My reaction mostly to all of this is dissapointment and anger that nothing can be discussed without people jumping at each other's throats because someone else said something offensive.
And for the record, i kind of see both sides points and think they are valid, but god, both sides are acting so cutthroat and dismissive that its impossible to uphold civility.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 20, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Well, im not about to dig thru 50 pages of drama and carefully citate people to make a point that will likely get ignored or provoke more anger, when im barely keeping up with reading it.
My reaction mostly to all of this is dissapointment and anger that nothing can be discussed without people jumping at each other's throats because someone else said something offensive.
And for the record, i kind of see both sides points and think they are valid, but god, both sides are acting so cutthroat and dismissive that its impossible to uphold civility.
I have read most of it and I agree with this. There's a lot of butthurt all around. Which is funny because A) SRSLY YOU GUISE? and B) Everyone using the term "butthurt" in context with a lot of what has been said is just fucking lolleriffic.
I was kind of upset, but now it's just sort of amusing. Where do you think we are headed with this? Has no one noticed the irony of how this discussion has broken down? Why do you suppose that is?
Anyhow, I didn't get overly involved because it looked to be one of the Verboten Subjects in the making, just cut along new lines. Now I have little doubt. Which is a shame because this was one of the most interesting stuff Ive read here and I've read a lot.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
For my own part, the whole point of the discussion about words, what they mean, and how they came to be that way wasn't about "don't use those words" but about THINKING about how and why our society chooses pejoratives. Because the more you understand about a system, the better you can hack it. Am I wrong?
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
For my own part, the whole point of the discussion about words, what they mean, and how they came to be that way wasn't about "don't use those words" but about THINKING about how and why our society chooses pejoratives. Because the more you understand about a system, the better you can hack it. Am I wrong?
No, I would absolutely agree with that. And I do understand what people are saying in regards to how language is shaped and in turn shapes our thoughts, but it seemed to degenerate into a whole bunch of "THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO ACT AND TALK AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE AND GO ALONG YOU'RE PROBABLY SCUM AND DEFINITELY PART OF THE PROBLEM" and I just can't get down with that. And I think that, like it or not, there is a huge difference between the word "cunt" (or "pussy") as commonly used in slang and words like "nigger" and "fag" (which, to answer Garbo's question in another thread, I don't throw around as slang or obscenities), primarily in that the former have been part of the lexicon for so long that they've taken on meanings and contexts which, in my experience (and I know anecdotal != evidence) are generally not intended as being anti-woman, though I'm not disputing the original sentiment behind them. There is no context in which "nigger" is anything other than a racial slur.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
For my own part, the whole point of the discussion about words, what they mean, and how they came to be that way wasn't about "don't use those words" but about THINKING about how and why our society chooses pejoratives. Because the more you understand about a system, the better you can hack it. Am I wrong?
No, I would absolutely agree with that. And I do understand what people are saying in regards to how language is shaped and in turn shapes our thoughts, but it seemed to degenerate into a whole bunch of "THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO ACT AND TALK AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE AND GO ALONG YOU'RE PROBABLY SCUM AND DEFINITELY PART OF THE PROBLEM" and I just can't get down with that. And I think that, like it or not, there is a huge difference between the word "cunt" (or "pussy") as commonly used in slang and words like "nigger" and "fag" (which, to answer Garbo's question in another thread, I don't throw around as slang or obscenities), primarily in that the former have been part of the lexicon for so long that they've taken on meanings and contexts which, in my experience (and I know anecdotal != evidence) are generally not intended as being anti-woman, though I'm not disputing the original sentiment behind them. There is no context in which "nigger" is anything other than a racial slur.
I agree, and unfortunately I feel like it came down along gender lines, and that regardless of what I actually say my posts are being lumped in with posts from other people who fall on "my" side of the line. Despite the fact that I agreed with some, disagreed with some, and pretty much had my own thing to say.
And the whole blow up about "DON'T TELL ME I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A WOMAN" was just, frankly, FUCKING RETARDED.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 11:03:59 PM
And the whole blow up about "DON'T TELL ME I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A WOMAN" was just, frankly, FUCKING RETARDED.
Needs moar machine to change people into women, POC, a different sexual orientation, for a year, then I'll buy the argument...
I suppose it's a good thing Doctor's Without Borders doesn't actually need my money, because, at this rate, the week won't even be over and I'll have won my bet.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
For my own part, the whole point of the discussion about words, what they mean, and how they came to be that way wasn't about "don't use those words" but about THINKING about how and why our society chooses pejoratives. Because the more you understand about a system, the better you can hack it. Am I wrong?
No, I would absolutely agree with that. And I do understand what people are saying in regards to how language is shaped and in turn shapes our thoughts, but it seemed to degenerate into a whole bunch of "THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO ACT AND TALK AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE AND GO ALONG YOU'RE PROBABLY SCUM AND DEFINITELY PART OF THE PROBLEM" and I just can't get down with that. And I think that, like it or not, there is a huge difference between the word "cunt" (or "pussy") as commonly used in slang and words like "nigger" and "fag" (which, to answer Garbo's question in another thread, I don't throw around as slang or obscenities), primarily in that the former have been part of the lexicon for so long that they've taken on meanings and contexts which, in my experience (and I know anecdotal != evidence) are generally not intended as being anti-woman, though I'm not disputing the original sentiment behind them. There is no context in which "nigger" is anything other than a racial slur.
I sure as fuck never said any of that, ECH. I specified like a million times that I want people to think about the words they use and that's it. If someone keeps using pussy and cunt as pejoratives (because I think they are), whatever. Your rating on the douche-o-meter is going to be higher and I'm gonna side eye the fuck out of you when you say that shit but I'm not cool with
making people change the words they use. I don't think you can and trying is only going to result in resentment that ASKING someone to think about their words is less likely to generate.
(although, ahaha, as this thread has proven, it's certainly going to generate a lot of resentment in some quarters anyway)
I'm not getting into the language debate again, as I have already extensively stated my opinion.
Quote from: Alty on August 20, 2012, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 20, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Well, im not about to dig thru 50 pages of drama and carefully citate people to make a point that will likely get ignored or provoke more anger, when im barely keeping up with reading it.
My reaction mostly to all of this is dissapointment and anger that nothing can be discussed without people jumping at each other's throats because someone else said something offensive.
And for the record, i kind of see both sides points and think they are valid, but god, both sides are acting so cutthroat and dismissive that its impossible to uphold civility.
I have read most of it and I agree with this. There's a lot of butthurt all around. Which is funny because A) SRSLY YOU GUISE? and B) Everyone using the term "butthurt" in context with a lot of what has been said is just fucking lolleriffic.
I was kind of upset, but now it's just sort of amusing. Where do you think we are headed with this? Has no one noticed the irony of how this discussion has broken down? Why do you suppose that is?
Anyhow, I didn't get overly involved because it looked to be one of the Verboten Subjects in the making, just cut along new lines. Now I have little doubt. Which is a shame because this was one of the most interesting stuff Ive read here and I've read a lot.
Mhm. If this turns into a drugs-style topic, I'm gonna be sad. There are some very fine minds here, whose opinions I'm interested in. But if they can't put the monkey in the backseat instead of letting the fucker drive the car, then there's no point, because there's only going to be screeching and/or talking to people who are already on the same page I am.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
Yes. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. No matter what I write, it gets glossed over or ignored and it keeps coming back to the same bullshit privilege and entitlement, and the men who DO get what we're saying don't seem very willing to speak up, and the whole situation, being that this is the response from some of the most intelligent. forward-thinking, and enlightened men I know, makes me doubtful that gender equality will ever be possible. It makes me feel sad and tired, and wonder if this is perhaps just not the place for me. It's one thing when I toughen up and take it like a man, but it certainly turns into something else when I start talking about being a woman and the struggle for egalitarianism.
I think I'm gonna stick around anyway, if PD turns out not to be able or willing to talk about this sort of thing, but the board'll be poorer for it.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 11:44:32 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
I want to point out how retarded this thread is, but somebody will probably point out that it's offensive to the mentally disabled to do so.
Seriously, though, this whole round of butthurt via getting hung up on words and terms is pretty stupid and useless. If anybody thinks that getting rid of the word "cunt" as a pejorative is an important step in advancing feminism, I suggest they study the corollary.
Hardly anybody uses the word "nigger" (note that I am making a distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" to avoid the whole idiotic 'BUT BLACK PEOPLE USE IT ALL THE TIME' line that will inevitably get trotted out and has no bearing on the context of this discussion), and yet, racism....it's still alive and well and incredibly insidious and pervasive in our society, no?
See, the thing is, changing the language won't un-create assholes but it will alienate people (like me) who would otherwise be allies to your cause but find that whole idea both repugnant and ridiculous. So to me, it makes more sense to focus on changing or removing the assholes.
For my own part, the whole point of the discussion about words, what they mean, and how they came to be that way wasn't about "don't use those words" but about THINKING about how and why our society chooses pejoratives. Because the more you understand about a system, the better you can hack it. Am I wrong?
No, I would absolutely agree with that. And I do understand what people are saying in regards to how language is shaped and in turn shapes our thoughts, but it seemed to degenerate into a whole bunch of "THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO ACT AND TALK AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE AND GO ALONG YOU'RE PROBABLY SCUM AND DEFINITELY PART OF THE PROBLEM" and I just can't get down with that. And I think that, like it or not, there is a huge difference between the word "cunt" (or "pussy") as commonly used in slang and words like "nigger" and "fag" (which, to answer Garbo's question in another thread, I don't throw around as slang or obscenities), primarily in that the former have been part of the lexicon for so long that they've taken on meanings and contexts which, in my experience (and I know anecdotal != evidence) are generally not intended as being anti-woman, though I'm not disputing the original sentiment behind them. There is no context in which "nigger" is anything other than a racial slur.
I sure as fuck never said any of that, ECH. I specified like a million times that I want people to think about the words they use and that's it. If someone keeps using pussy and cunt as pejoratives (because I think they are), whatever. Your rating on the douche-o-meter is going to be higher and I'm gonna side eye the fuck out of you when you say that shit but I'm not cool with making people change the words they use. I don't think you can and trying is only going to result in resentment that ASKING someone to think about their words is less likely to generate.
(although, ahaha, as this thread has proven, it's certainly going to generate a lot of resentment in some quarters anyway)
I'm not getting into the language debate again, as I have already extensively stated my opinion.
Quote from: Alty on August 20, 2012, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 20, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Well, im not about to dig thru 50 pages of drama and carefully citate people to make a point that will likely get ignored or provoke more anger, when im barely keeping up with reading it.
My reaction mostly to all of this is dissapointment and anger that nothing can be discussed without people jumping at each other's throats because someone else said something offensive.
And for the record, i kind of see both sides points and think they are valid, but god, both sides are acting so cutthroat and dismissive that its impossible to uphold civility.
I have read most of it and I agree with this. There's a lot of butthurt all around. Which is funny because A) SRSLY YOU GUISE? and B) Everyone using the term "butthurt" in context with a lot of what has been said is just fucking lolleriffic.
I was kind of upset, but now it's just sort of amusing. Where do you think we are headed with this? Has no one noticed the irony of how this discussion has broken down? Why do you suppose that is?
Anyhow, I didn't get overly involved because it looked to be one of the Verboten Subjects in the making, just cut along new lines. Now I have little doubt. Which is a shame because this was one of the most interesting stuff Ive read here and I've read a lot.
Mhm. If this turns into a drugs-style topic, I'm gonna be sad. There are some very fine minds here, whose opinions I'm interested in. But if they can't put the monkey in the backseat instead of letting the fucker drive the car, then there's no point, because there's only going to be screeching and/or talking to people who are already on the same page I am.
I gotta say, if all it takes is a couple of common and widely-used expletives for someone to rate me higher on their douche-o-meter, odds are I'm going to return the favor in spades.
If it's already a discussion that has been had, then yes, I will rate you slightly higher on the douche-o-meter (not enough for me to stop talking you but enough to like you slightly less if you keep doing it in my presence when I have expressed my opinion on the matter). And I give precisely zero fucks as to whether or not you think I'm a douche bag, ECH. You're a cool enough guy, but I don't really care about your opinion of me.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
Whether you deal with it or not, the world is still full of assholes.
Regardless of how much you talk about it or how aware of it you are, the world is still full of assholes
Speaking personally, I'm hyper aware of the assholes thing already, I'm bored talking about it but, if and when you're done with the talking and the awareness thing, come and have a chat about how to deal with the asshole problem. Oh wait, that's right, you're not interested in dealing, just talking and being aware, right?
Personally I'm more interested in pissing off assholes using the power of my middle finger than arguing over taxonomy but it's a free country. Have your burger however you want it.
If these discussions bore you, stay the fuck of the thread. Problem solved.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
In my experience none of these things ever make it past the planning stage. Something about being too busy arguing about what the problem is, who's to blame and how best to go about solving it. These arguments go round in circles, on earth just as it is in internets and nothing changes and, lo and behold, the world is still full of assholes.
So I'm sorry but no, I'm not interested in dialogue and establishing just exactly what flavour of indignant butthurt everyone is operating with and how diddums can't hold up their middle finger cos they hurted it.
If hacking your own head is difficult, hacking a planet full of heads that don't want to be hacked is the last word in futility.
A lot of organizations don't make it beyond the planning stages. Others do. This is no reason not to try.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 21, 2012, 12:17:32 AM
If it's already a discussion that has been had, then yes, I will rate you slightly higher on the douche-o-meter (not enough for me to stop talking you but enough to like you slightly less if you keep doing it in my presence when I have expressed my opinion on the matter). And I give precisely zero fucks as to whether or not you think I'm a douche bag, ECH. You're a cool enough guy, but I don't really care about your opinion of me.
Sounds like we're on the same page. I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree on this subject, though your opinion of the words being discussed does nothing to lessen my opinion of you. If I liked someone a little less every time I found one of their opinions to be silly or mildly objectionable I wouldn't have anyone to talk to after about a week.
Though I feel like I didn't clearly articulate the distinction between swearing in the course of casual conversation and swearing as a Holy Sacrament, usually from rage, pain, or a combination of the two. If we're hanging out at the bar having a conversation and I use the word "cunt" in conversation and you tell me that you find the word offensive and would I please not continue to use it in front of you, I'll agree and do my damndest, and apologize to you if it slips out again. I'm not a discourteous person most of the time. But if I hit my thumb with a hammer and let out a high-volume "CUNTKNOCKING MOTHERFUCKING COCKBURGLER!" immediately afterward, I would probably tell anyone who scolded me for it to get bent, even my own mother.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2012, 12:45:08 AM
Though I feel like I didn't clearly articulate the distinction between swearing in the course of casual conversation and swearing as a Holy Sacrament, usually from rage, pain, or a combination of the two. If we're hanging out at the bar having a conversation and I use the word "cunt" in conversation and you tell me that you find the word offensive and would I please not continue to use it in front of you, I'll agree and do my damndest, and apologize to you if it slips out again. I'm not a discourteous person most of the time. But if I hit my thumb with a hammer and let out a high-volume "CUNTKNOCKING MOTHERFUCKING COCKBURGLER!" immediately afterward, I would probably tell anyone who scolded me for it to get bent, even my own mother.
This post seems entirely reasonable.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
Yes. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. No matter what I write, it gets glossed over or ignored and it keeps coming back to the same bullshit privilege and entitlement, and the men who DO get what we're saying don't seem very willing to speak up, and the whole situation, being that this is the response from some of the most intelligent. forward-thinking, and enlightened men I know, makes me doubtful that gender equality will ever be possible. It makes me feel sad and tired, and wonder if this is perhaps just not the place for me. It's one thing when I toughen up and take it like a man, but it certainly turns into something else when I start talking about being a woman and the struggle for egalitarianism.
I'm sorry you feel like giving up.
When arguments get to an impasse like this, I still see it as an opportunity to reformulate my approach, to give the opposing arguments another examination for something that I missed or misunderstood, and to develop even a slightly more nuanced understanding of the people opposing me.
It's still frustrating as hell and I get the urge to just say "fuck it, I don't give a shit." But I know that's just a maladaptive coping mechanism. To me, it's a sign I need to take a step away from the situation and recoup, but I don't let that fire in my belly stop burning. I can't pretend that the things I deeply care about do not matter to me without descending into dysfunction.
For me, these stalemates are a part of the process. I think they contain important information about myself, my detractors, and the way forward.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2012, 12:45:08 AM
Though I feel like I didn't clearly articulate the distinction between swearing in the course of casual conversation and swearing as a Holy Sacrament, usually from rage, pain, or a combination of the two. If we're hanging out at the bar having a conversation and I use the word "cunt" in conversation and you tell me that you find the word offensive and would I please not continue to use it in front of you, I'll agree and do my damndest, and apologize to you if it slips out again. I'm not a discourteous person most of the time. But if I hit my thumb with a hammer and let out a high-volume "CUNTKNOCKING MOTHERFUCKING COCKBURGLER!" immediately afterward, I would probably tell anyone who scolded me for it to get bent, even my own mother.
I say all kinds of heinously offensive things, especially when I'm in my car by myself. And if I hurt myself somehow, either my reaction is unnaturally calm, or it's all shit, lost.
Quote from: Net on August 21, 2012, 12:54:00 AM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
Yes. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. No matter what I write, it gets glossed over or ignored and it keeps coming back to the same bullshit privilege and entitlement, and the men who DO get what we're saying don't seem very willing to speak up, and the whole situation, being that this is the response from some of the most intelligent. forward-thinking, and enlightened men I know, makes me doubtful that gender equality will ever be possible. It makes me feel sad and tired, and wonder if this is perhaps just not the place for me. It's one thing when I toughen up and take it like a man, but it certainly turns into something else when I start talking about being a woman and the struggle for egalitarianism.
I'm sorry you feel like giving up.
When arguments get to an impasse like this, I still see it as an opportunity to reformulate my approach, to give the opposing arguments another examination for something that I missed or misunderstood, and to develop even a slightly more nuanced understanding of the people opposing me.
It's still frustrating as hell and I get the urge to just say "fuck it, I don't give a shit." But I know that's just a maladaptive coping mechanism. To me, it's a sign I need to take a step away from the situation and recoup, but I don't let that fire in my belly stop burning. I can't pretend that the things I deeply care about do not matter to me without descending into dysfunction.
For me, these stalemates are a part of the process. I think they contain important information about myself, my detractors, and the way forward.
All of your points are valid, and I'm glad you're pushing through. I'm just really tired and it might be a while before I'm not so tired.
Quote from: Pixie on August 21, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2012, 12:45:08 AM
Though I feel like I didn't clearly articulate the distinction between swearing in the course of casual conversation and swearing as a Holy Sacrament, usually from rage, pain, or a combination of the two. If we're hanging out at the bar having a conversation and I use the word "cunt" in conversation and you tell me that you find the word offensive and would I please not continue to use it in front of you, I'll agree and do my damndest, and apologize to you if it slips out again. I'm not a discourteous person most of the time. But if I hit my thumb with a hammer and let out a high-volume "CUNTKNOCKING MOTHERFUCKING COCKBURGLER!" immediately afterward, I would probably tell anyone who scolded me for it to get bent, even my own mother.
This post seems entirely reasonable.
I still don't like it, but I can understand, I suppose.
Quote from: Net on August 21, 2012, 12:54:00 AM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2012, 12:50:03 AM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
That has merely illustrated - once again, because I'm a slow learner - that the moment a Discordian allows ANYTHING to offend him/her, that Discordian has allowed society (even inside of Discordianism) to jam a steering wheel up his/her ass, to be driven hither and yon.
Personally, I've decided to not use a few words. But I also learned about the steering wheel again, and I saw first hand who had one up their colon, and who didn't. I did. I don't now.
So I see precisely no value in this.
I disagree with this, and it sounds like butthurt.
But it is, alternately, possible that I am wrong, and that it is time for Discordianism and I to part ways because it doesn't fit me or my objectives anymore.
THIS. Things have got pretty heated recently here, and the range from passive aggressive snarking to butthurt and repeating and rephrasing myself until I'm blue in the fucking face is tiring and ultimately boring, as I can get exactly the same responses when I point out in IRL that rape jokes that mock survivors of sexual assault can trigger PTSD in those people and that I don't find that funny. The cries of "your censoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" from people who would recoil in horror at a openly hostile racist joke to "I was only joking, god your humourless!" weak assed weaksauce excuses for not actually thinking about the shit that comes out of your mouth and the effect or impressions it will leave on another. This was not the response I expected from PeeDee.
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
If we can't discuss things without kneejerking and not attempt at reaching an understanding of the other person's point then maybe we're all fucking deluding ourselves about being the bipedal superior mutants.
and sadly, that is not My Discordia.
Yes. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. No matter what I write, it gets glossed over or ignored and it keeps coming back to the same bullshit privilege and entitlement, and the men who DO get what we're saying don't seem very willing to speak up, and the whole situation, being that this is the response from some of the most intelligent. forward-thinking, and enlightened men I know, makes me doubtful that gender equality will ever be possible. It makes me feel sad and tired, and wonder if this is perhaps just not the place for me. It's one thing when I toughen up and take it like a man, but it certainly turns into something else when I start talking about being a woman and the struggle for egalitarianism.
I'm sorry you feel like giving up.
When arguments get to an impasse like this, I still see it as an opportunity to reformulate my approach, to give the opposing arguments another examination for something that I missed or misunderstood, and to develop even a slightly more nuanced understanding of the people opposing me.
It's still frustrating as hell and I get the urge to just say "fuck it, I don't give a shit." But I know that's just a maladaptive coping mechanism. To me, it's a sign I need to take a step away from the situation and recoup, but I don't let that fire in my belly stop burning. I can't pretend that the things I deeply care about do not matter to me without descending into dysfunction.
For me, these stalemates are a part of the process. I think they contain important information about myself, my detractors, and the way forward.
I can't speak for Nige, but it's not you who is frustrating.
Reformulating your approach is awesome and people like you are a lot of fun to debate because you're not spagging up the thread with "LOOK AT ALL THE FUCKS I GIVE!" every two pages and :tldr:.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 21, 2012, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 02:32:09 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 20, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Being told that "the world is full of assholes, deal with it" is not part of my Discordia. All me, Nigel and Garbo have been saying is that "this shit sucks, lets talk about it and become more aware of it.". You cannot change a damned thing by not thinking about something and being dismissive or butthurt. My Discordia hates apathy with the power of 1000 suns going supernova.
Whether you deal with it or not, the world is still full of assholes.
Regardless of how much you talk about it or how aware of it you are, the world is still full of assholes
Speaking personally, I'm hyper aware of the assholes thing already, I'm bored talking about it but, if and when you're done with the talking and the awareness thing, come and have a chat about how to deal with the asshole problem. Oh wait, that's right, you're not interested in dealing, just talking and being aware, right?
Personally I'm more interested in pissing off assholes using the power of my middle finger than arguing over taxonomy but it's a free country. Have your burger however you want it.
If these discussions bore you, stay the fuck of the thread. Problem solved.
When you can get bored of these discussions because the very real consequences of the issues we're discussing don't affect your day-to-day life, that's a massive sign of your privilege IMO.
Although telling you this, P3nt, is rather like talking to a brick wall, I suspect.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 20, 2012, 05:18:04 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 20, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
:lulz:
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
For me it is more individual behavior than social critique or even political statement. I will not conduct myself in a way that gives consideration to stereotypes or prejudice, and I won't tolerate those around me doing that either. Beyond that, I try to spread that position. It is enough work examining myself and my own actions and eliminating those behaviors.
Yes, but without critiquing society, how are you supposed to change some of the more subtle parts of your behavior or call out people who do those self-same things? I have no idea whether or not the pussy/cunt discussion changed your opinion of the words, but would you have thought of it if someone else hadn't brought it up?
Yes but in critiquing society, can we not do so without eating the menu? Is it possible to see broad inequality, remedy those to the extent that each us as individuals can, without getting bogged down in the "appropriate" verbiage to use when interacting with Lesbian Midget Eskimo Albinos?
Uh, I tend to think calling the groups what they have said they want to be called is basic manners.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on August 21, 2012, 01:14:20 AM
I can't speak for Nige, but it's not you who is frustrating.
Reformulating your approach is awesome and people like you are a lot of fun to debate because you're not spagging up the thread with "LOOK AT ALL THE FUCKS I GIVE!" every two pages and :tldr: .
8) :hi5: 8)
Here is my sum total of something relevant that I have to add in an effort to keep these threads focused on what's really important (and I'm quoting a black woman here for what that's worth):
"If we're not going to win, I at least want to have fun while we're losing."
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
Though I probably somehow fall into this category in your estimation, I wonder if it is ever possible to reach a point with you where you say "I get what you're saying, I disagree with that but it's cool that you feel that way and I won't hate you for it."
For the record, I have not attacked the female (or any other) gender in my remarks in all these threads, in fact I've stated my refusal to recognize any distinction among various genders as legitimate when it comes to treatment of any person, and my aversion to joining any cause that champions one gender or another, regardless of history.
That is my approach to Egalitarianism, and you are free to feel how you want to feel about that, but I don't really count any variation of "fuck you then" as a valid response worth my respect, since it isn't meeting my intention in kind.
Quote from: v3x on August 21, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
Though I probably somehow fall into this category in your estimation, I wonder if it is ever possible to reach a point with you where you say "I get what you're saying, I disagree with that but it's cool that you feel that way and I won't hate you for it."
For the record, I have not attacked the female (or any other) gender in my remarks in all these threads, in fact I've stated my refusal to recognize any distinction among various genders as legitimate when it comes to treatment of any person, and my aversion to joining any cause that champions one gender or another, regardless of history.
That is my approach to Egalitarianism, and you are free to feel how you want to feel about that, but I don't really count any variation of "fuck you then" as a valid response worth my respect, since it isn't meeting my intention in kind.
What's this? I didn't realize that pieces of shit could type!
One thing you seem incapable of recognizing, in all your bullshit entitlement, is that you don't have the right to "disagree" with women's feelings about women's experiences. By doing so, you are making yourself the equivalent of the 1950's white Mississippian who said "We treat our niggers pretty good, I don't know why they want to make trouble".
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:19:55 PM
One thing you seem incapable of recognizing, in all your bullshit entitlement, is that you don't have the right to "disagree" with women's feelings about women's experiences. By doing so, you are making yourself the equivalent of the 1950's white Mississippian who said "We treat our niggers pretty good, I don't know why they want to make trouble".
I don't disagree with your experience. I disagree with (some of) the ways (some) activists seek to rectify the situation. And I'm sorry if you believe I do not have that "right," because in fact, I do.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
What's this? I didn't realize that pieces of shit could type!
I really don't understand why you resort to such low standards of thought when no one has so brazenly offended
you. You sure do like to toss around the "baboon" thing though, considering how much of your own shit is caked on the walls around here.
I need to make a thread about feelings... but I need to think it through first.
In other news, how come no one has come to the defense of "cocksucker"? In the list of curse words, it was generally accepted as ok to use by the board.
First off, it's primarily homophobic in it's use, when it's directed at men. "Dave, you suck cock, which makes you gay, and that's bad."
Secondly, it slut-shames, especially when it's directed at women. "Jane, you suck cock, which makes you a whore, and that's bad."
Lastly, it declares that performing oral sex on a man is bad and degrading. "Sucking on someone's cock is bad."
Gay men aren't bad.
Sexual women aren't bad.
Oral sex isn't bad.
So why is this an acceptable curseword?
LMNO
-is perhaps being polemical, here.
Quote from: v3x on August 21, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:19:55 PM
One thing you seem incapable of recognizing, in all your bullshit entitlement, is that you don't have the right to "disagree" with women's feelings about women's experiences. By doing so, you are making yourself the equivalent of the 1950's white Mississippian who said "We treat our niggers pretty good, I don't know why they want to make trouble".
I don't disagree with your experience. I disagree with (some of) the ways (some) activists seek to rectify the situation. And I'm sorry if you believe I do not have that "right," because in fact, I do.
Oh, in the absence an actual argument, it makes up something I didn't say so it feels justified disagreeing. :lol:
Sorry vex, you're not a person to me anymore, so you can just fuck right off.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: v3x on August 21, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:19:55 PM
One thing you seem incapable of recognizing, in all your bullshit entitlement, is that you don't have the right to "disagree" with women's feelings about women's experiences. By doing so, you are making yourself the equivalent of the 1950's white Mississippian who said "We treat our niggers pretty good, I don't know why they want to make trouble".
I don't disagree with your experience. I disagree with (some of) the ways (some) activists seek to rectify the situation. And I'm sorry if you believe I do not have that "right," because in fact, I do.
Oh, in the absence an actual argument, it makes up something I didn't say so it feels justified disagreeing. :lol:
Sorry vex, you're not a person to me anymore, so you can just fuck right off.
\
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1715856/AngryBaboon.jpg)
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 06:27:13 PM
I need to make a thread about feelings... but I need to think it through first.
In other news, how come no one has come to the defense of "cocksucker"? In the list of curse words, it was generally accepted as ok to use by the board.
First off, it's primarily homophobic in it's use, when it's directed at men. "Dave, you suck cock, which makes you gay, and that's bad."
Secondly, it slut-shames, especially when it's directed at women. "Jane, you suck cock, which makes you a whore, and that's bad."
Lastly, it declares that performing oral sex on a man is bad and degrading. "Sucking on someone's cock is bad."
Gay men aren't bad.
Sexual women aren't bad.
Oral sex isn't bad.
So why is this an acceptable curseword?
LMNO
-is perhaps being polemical, here.
You make several great points, and actually I personally don't like that curse word for those reasons, except for entertainment value a'la "Deadwood". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOrxhvAVVRw
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
That's a bold claim, care to back it up and name names or are you just going to insult every member of the board male and female with that.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:35:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 06:27:13 PM
I need to make a thread about feelings... but I need to think it through first.
In other news, how come no one has come to the defense of "cocksucker"? In the list of curse words, it was generally accepted as ok to use by the board.
First off, it's primarily homophobic in it's use, when it's directed at men. "Dave, you suck cock, which makes you gay, and that's bad."
Secondly, it slut-shames, especially when it's directed at women. "Jane, you suck cock, which makes you a whore, and that's bad."
Lastly, it declares that performing oral sex on a man is bad and degrading. "Sucking on someone's cock is bad."
Gay men aren't bad.
Sexual women aren't bad.
Oral sex isn't bad.
So why is this an acceptable curseword?
LMNO
-is perhaps being polemical, here.
You make several great points, and actually I personally don't like that curse word for those reasons, except for entertainment value a'la "Deadwood". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOrxhvAVVRw
Al Swearengen is exempt from all criticism, of course.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
That's a bold claim, care to back it up and name names or are you just going to insult every member of the board male and female with that.
Care to read on? I have been QUITE explicit.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
That's a bold claim, care to back it up and name names or are you just going to insult every member of the board male and female with that.
Care to read on? I have been QUITE explicit.
No. You implied Vex.
Are you accusing me of this? Whom else do you think "want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers"?
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 06:43:10 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 06:04:35 PM
One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves.
That's a bold claim, care to back it up and name names or are you just going to insult every member of the board male and female with that.
Care to read on? I have been QUITE explicit.
No. You implied Vex.
Are you accusing me of this? Whom else do you think "want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers"?
Jesus, do you have a literacy disorder? :lulz: Do you think it applies to you?
In another thread I stated that if you're paranoid that I might mean you, I don't. The people I am talking about are the people I HAVE CALLED OUT TO THEIR FACES EXPLICITLY.
Sorry, you don't get to be part of the special club unless I TELL YOU you're part of the special club. I'm not big on hinting or making people guess whether I think they're pieces of shit. If I think you're a piece of shit I'm going to say so to you FUCKING FACE, and I did. So knock off the "are you talking about me" bullshit, it doesn't fly.
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Yeah, I'm hostile, but I not only QUOTED THE TWO PEOPLE I AM TALKING ABOUT, which is v3x and P3nt (I'm starting to think that the letter 3 as a substitute for e is on par with having "wolf" in your name), and explicitly called them out, but I also explicitly said that if you aren't CERTAIN it's you, it's not.
Jesus fucking christ. :lulz:
"Implied", my fucking ass. :lulz: I might have also "implied" that I have a problem with the social status quo, the corporate economy, and prisons for profit, elsewhere on the board. I'm fucking SUBTLE that way.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Yeah, I'm hostile, but I not only QUOTED THE TWO PEOPLE I AM TALKING ABOUT, which is v3x and P3nt (I'm starting to think that the letter 3 as a substitute for e is on par with having "wolf" in your name), and explicitly called them out, but I also explicitly said that if you aren't CERTAIN it's you, it's not.
Jesus fucking christ. :lulz:
I'm looking for something explicit in this
"One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves."
I don't see it. You certainly did quote them after that, we can't read your mind or that "a certain contingent" meant those two people. In fact as these threads are all basically the same topic if I was to go off of the quote logic Cain would fall into that too from the time it was posted.
I don't think comments like that are helping, especially the way these discussion are going.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:52:42 PM
"Implied", my fucking ass. :lulz: I might have also "implied" that I have a problem with the social status quo, the corporate economy, and prisons for profit, elsewhere on the board. I'm fucking SUBTLE that way.
No you explicitly stated them. You didn't for this.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:01:54 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Yeah, I'm hostile, but I not only QUOTED THE TWO PEOPLE I AM TALKING ABOUT, which is v3x and P3nt (I'm starting to think that the letter 3 as a substitute for e is on par with having "wolf" in your name), and explicitly called them out, but I also explicitly said that if you aren't CERTAIN it's you, it's not.
Jesus fucking christ. :lulz:
I'm looking for something explicit in this
"One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves."
I don't see it. You certainly did quote them after that, we can't read your mind or that "a certain contingent" meant those two people. In fact as these threads are all basically the same topic if I was to go off of the quote logic Cain would fall into that too from the time it was posted.
I don't think comments like that are helping, especially the way these discussion are going.
It's in a different thread, which I also said. Explicitly. Your lack of reading is not my fault.
Is there something not explicit enough about me naming the two people I'm talking about? Or do you just want to keep quoting that one post and claiming I'm unclear because I didn't re-assert who they are in that one single post?
Or maybe in your heart of hearts you DO think what I said applies to you, and that's why you're being defensive? :lulz:
Go on, claim that I'm accusing you by joking about it, won't you?
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:04:35 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:52:42 PM
"Implied", my fucking ass. :lulz: I might have also "implied" that I have a problem with the social status quo, the corporate economy, and prisons for profit, elsewhere on the board. I'm fucking SUBTLE that way.
No you explicitly stated them. You didn't for this.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 07:52:23 AM
If there's no way in hell I can possibly understand your thing then why in fuck have you dedicated your existence to trying to explain it to me?
Oh wait, that's right you're not trying to explain, you're just impotently bitching and whining? fine. Carry on.
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 08:27:33 AM
(White) men cannot understand, but our help is needed. We have an obligation to help, partly because we recognize there is a problem and partly because we are the ones "in charge," so we are the only ones who can change things. At least, without a revolution. But we cannot be in charge of what needs to be done, and since we do not understand what it is like to be oppressed we cannot offer advice on what might mitigate that oppression if our advice has anything to do with changing the opinions or behaviors of the oppressed. We can only be of assistance in doing it. We are like lions, if a lion could be hired to guide a safari through lion territory.
OK, good, the two of you have succeeded in convincing me that you're both complete fucking idiots with no interest in social change or understanding.
In closing, go fuck yourselves to death with sharp sticks. Congratulations on being part of the problem, DIAF. That is all.
Oh look. No, I guess I wasn't very explicit, there.
This is kind of like that time when some people threw a hissy fit because they didn't remember the discussion about the Discordian devival webpage.
I DIDN'T READ THAT THREAD, SO IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU'RE EXCLUDING ME ON PURPOSE.
Jesus fuck. :lulz:
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:01:54 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Yeah, I'm hostile, but I not only QUOTED THE TWO PEOPLE I AM TALKING ABOUT, which is v3x and P3nt (I'm starting to think that the letter 3 as a substitute for e is on par with having "wolf" in your name), and explicitly called them out, but I also explicitly said that if you aren't CERTAIN it's you, it's not.
Jesus fucking christ. :lulz:
I'm looking for something explicit in this
"One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves."
I don't see it. You certainly did quote them after that, we can't read your mind or that "a certain contingent" meant those two people. In fact as these threads are all basically the same topic if I was to go off of the quote logic Cain would fall into that too from the time it was posted.
I don't think comments like that are helping, especially the way these discussion are going.
It's in a different thread, which I also said. Explicitly. Your lack of reading is not my fault.
Is there something not explicit enough about me naming the two people I'm talking about? Or do you just want to keep quoting that one post and claiming I'm unclear because I didn't re-assert who they are in that one single post?
Or maybe in your heart of hearts you DO think what I said applies to you, and that's why you're being defensive? :lulz:
Go on, claim that I'm accusing you by joking about it, won't you?
I don't think you are accusing me, are you? It is that post I take issue with. I think if you are going to make ugly crude accusations that will end any further discussions in these threads you should explicitly name the people you take issue with. It wasn't explicit nor did you say anything to limit the range beyond "One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads"
A couple of days ago in these threads you quoted roger in a similar fashion, perhaps he was included?
Who else here do you think makes up this certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen?
Is it just two people?
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:11:09 PM
This is kind of like that time when some people threw a hissy fit because they didn't remember the discussion about the Discordian devival webpage.
I DIDN'T READ THAT THREAD, SO IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU'RE EXCLUDING ME ON PURPOSE.
Jesus fuck. :lulz:
I don't think I am having a hissy fit? Do you think I am? Perhaps you perceive some problem in questioning you on what you posted? Why are you being defensive about a question asking for clarity?
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:15:51 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:01:54 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM
No, you never made it explicit, and if you are just going to be hostile when asked a question I don't see any further value in engaging in any of this.
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Yeah, I'm hostile, but I not only QUOTED THE TWO PEOPLE I AM TALKING ABOUT, which is v3x and P3nt (I'm starting to think that the letter 3 as a substitute for e is on par with having "wolf" in your name), and explicitly called them out, but I also explicitly said that if you aren't CERTAIN it's you, it's not.
Jesus fucking christ. :lulz:
I'm looking for something explicit in this
"One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads is there is a certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen.
I have two messages for those people:
1. Ain't gonna happen bro, and the world is a scary place weak, pathetic, insecure little gits like you,
2. Thanks for revealing yourselves."
I don't see it. You certainly did quote them after that, we can't read your mind or that "a certain contingent" meant those two people. In fact as these threads are all basically the same topic if I was to go off of the quote logic Cain would fall into that too from the time it was posted.
I don't think comments like that are helping, especially the way these discussion are going.
It's in a different thread, which I also said. Explicitly. Your lack of reading is not my fault.
Is there something not explicit enough about me naming the two people I'm talking about? Or do you just want to keep quoting that one post and claiming I'm unclear because I didn't re-assert who they are in that one single post?
Or maybe in your heart of hearts you DO think what I said applies to you, and that's why you're being defensive? :lulz:
Go on, claim that I'm accusing you by joking about it, won't you?
I don't think you are accusing me, are you? It is that post I take issue with. I think if you are going to make ugly crude accusations that will end any further discussions in these threads you should explicitly name the people you take issue with. It wasn't explicit nor did you say anything to limit the range beyond "One of the delightful messages that I'm getting from these threads"
A couple of days ago in these threads you quoted roger in a similar fashion, perhaps he was included?
Who else here do you think makes up this certain contingent here who really want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen?
Is it just two people?
REALLY? I quoted ROGER and said something similar to what I said there? I called him an idiot and part of the problem, and told him to fuck himself to death on a pointy stick?
???
Somehow, I think you MAY be mistaken. :lulz:
I think that the two people I EXPLICITLY NAMED want women to be the equivalent of boot-licking niggers who don't talk about what they want, and are willing to get quite vocal and abusive to try to make that happen, and I will also include anyone who agrees with them in that assessment, whether they are active posters or not. Clearly, I have no way of knowing who those hypothetical other people are or whether they even exist, but I'll just throw them in there for good measure.
DO YOU NEED ME TO BE MORE EXPLICIT, FAUST? AM I BEING TOO SUBTLE? HINTING AROUND A LITTLE TOO MUCH MAYBE?
:roll:
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:11:09 PM
This is kind of like that time when some people threw a hissy fit because they didn't remember the discussion about the Discordian devival webpage.
I DIDN'T READ THAT THREAD, SO IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU'RE EXCLUDING ME ON PURPOSE.
Jesus fuck. :lulz:
I don't think I am having a hissy fit? Do you think I am? Perhaps you perceive some problem in questioning you on what you posted? Why are you being defensive about a question asking for clarity?
Because I am angry, and you are behaving like an idiot.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:08:45 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:04:35 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:52:42 PM
"Implied", my fucking ass. :lulz: I might have also "implied" that I have a problem with the social status quo, the corporate economy, and prisons for profit, elsewhere on the board. I'm fucking SUBTLE that way.
No you explicitly stated them. You didn't for this.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 07:52:23 AM
If there's no way in hell I can possibly understand your thing then why in fuck have you dedicated your existence to trying to explain it to me?
Oh wait, that's right you're not trying to explain, you're just impotently bitching and whining? fine. Carry on.
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 08:27:33 AM
(White) men cannot understand, but our help is needed. We have an obligation to help, partly because we recognize there is a problem and partly because we are the ones "in charge," so we are the only ones who can change things. At least, without a revolution. But we cannot be in charge of what needs to be done, and since we do not understand what it is like to be oppressed we cannot offer advice on what might mitigate that oppression if our advice has anything to do with changing the opinions or behaviors of the oppressed. We can only be of assistance in doing it. We are like lions, if a lion could be hired to guide a safari through lion territory.
OK, good, the two of you have succeeded in convincing me that you're both complete fucking idiots with no interest in social change or understanding.
In closing, go fuck yourselves to death with sharp sticks. Congratulations on being part of the problem, DIAF. That is all.
Oh look. No, I guess I wasn't very explicit, there.
Not gonna acknowledge this?
Figures. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:22:37 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:08:45 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:04:35 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 07:52:42 PM
"Implied", my fucking ass. :lulz: I might have also "implied" that I have a problem with the social status quo, the corporate economy, and prisons for profit, elsewhere on the board. I'm fucking SUBTLE that way.
No you explicitly stated them. You didn't for this.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 07:52:23 AM
If there's no way in hell I can possibly understand your thing then why in fuck have you dedicated your existence to trying to explain it to me?
Oh wait, that's right you're not trying to explain, you're just impotently bitching and whining? fine. Carry on.
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 08:27:33 AM
(White) men cannot understand, but our help is needed. We have an obligation to help, partly because we recognize there is a problem and partly because we are the ones "in charge," so we are the only ones who can change things. At least, without a revolution. But we cannot be in charge of what needs to be done, and since we do not understand what it is like to be oppressed we cannot offer advice on what might mitigate that oppression if our advice has anything to do with changing the opinions or behaviors of the oppressed. We can only be of assistance in doing it. We are like lions, if a lion could be hired to guide a safari through lion territory.
OK, good, the two of you have succeeded in convincing me that you're both complete fucking idiots with no interest in social change or understanding.
In closing, go fuck yourselves to death with sharp sticks. Congratulations on being part of the problem, DIAF. That is all.
Oh look. No, I guess I wasn't very explicit, there.
Not gonna acknowledge this?
Figures. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
You weren't explicit with those. Perhaps it was implied by my two disconnected posts?
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:11:09 PM
This is kind of like that time when some people threw a hissy fit because they didn't remember the discussion about the Discordian devival webpage.
I DIDN'T READ THAT THREAD, SO IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU'RE EXCLUDING ME ON PURPOSE.
Jesus fuck. :lulz:
I don't think I am having a hissy fit? Do you think I am? Perhaps you perceive some problem in questioning you on what you posted? Why are you being defensive about a question asking for clarity?
Because I am angry, and you are behaving like an idiot.
I don't think I am, does asking questions make someone an idiot? I'm not angry, I feel sorry for you that you are.
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yeah, and some people are unwilling to accept my explanation that I explicitly called out the people I'm referring to in another thread, yesterday. For whatever reason.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yes, I've already stated that I don't think she was talking about me. I have stated that I do not think the way that post was phrased is going to help these discussions, especially when others in different timezones come online and the threads diverge by number of posts.
And then went on to try to stir up shit by claiming I said the same kind of thing while quoting Roger.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yeah, and some people are unwilling to accept my explanation that I explicitly called out the people I'm referring to in another thread, yesterday. For whatever reason.
Not so much unwilling, I don't believe it was explicit. Though I agree that you believe you made it explicit.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yes, I've already stated that I don't think she was talking about me. I have stated that I do not think the way that post was phrased is going to help these discussions, especially when others in different timezones come online and the threads diverge by number of posts.
Yeah wow, sorry for getting frustrated and angry about having my basic humanity denied in the form of people telling me that my direct experiences are invalid.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yeah, and some people are unwilling to accept my explanation that I explicitly called out the people I'm referring to in another thread, yesterday. For whatever reason.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yes, I've already stated that I don't think she was talking about me. I have stated that I do not think the way that post was phrased is going to help these discussions, especially when others in different timezones come online and the threads diverge by number of posts.
See? Everyone agrees!
:awesome:
PS - why don't we have a "rainbows shooting out of a flying unicorn's ass" emote?
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:30:53 PM
And then went on to try to stir up shit by claiming I said the same kind of thing while quoting Roger.
An example of how it could be misconstrued, not an attempt to stirr up shit.
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yes, I've already stated that I don't think she was talking about me. I have stated that I do not think the way that post was phrased is going to help these discussions, especially when others in different timezones come online and the threads diverge by number of posts.
Yeah wow, sorry for getting frustrated and angry about having my basic humanity denied in the form of people telling me that my direct experiences are invalid.
Apology accepted.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 21, 2012, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Dear Faust: She wasn't talking about you.
Dear Nigel: Please be aware that some people might not make the same linear connections between posts and threads as you do.
Love,
LMNO
Yeah, and some people are unwilling to accept my explanation that I explicitly called out the people I'm referring to in another thread, yesterday. For whatever reason.
Not so much unwilling, I don't believe it was explicit. Though I agree that you believe you made it explicit.
How is this not explicit?
Quote from: Dear Departed Uncle Nigel on August 20, 2012, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 20, 2012, 07:52:23 AM
If there's no way in hell I can possibly understand your thing then why in fuck have you dedicated your existence to trying to explain it to me?
Oh wait, that's right you're not trying to explain, you're just impotently bitching and whining? fine. Carry on.
Quote from: v3x on August 20, 2012, 08:27:33 AM
(White) men cannot understand, but our help is needed. We have an obligation to help, partly because we recognize there is a problem and partly because we are the ones "in charge," so we are the only ones who can change things. At least, without a revolution. But we cannot be in charge of what needs to be done, and since we do not understand what it is like to be oppressed we cannot offer advice on what might mitigate that oppression if our advice has anything to do with changing the opinions or behaviors of the oppressed. We can only be of assistance in doing it. We are like lions, if a lion could be hired to guide a safari through lion territory.
OK, good, the two of you have succeeded in convincing me that you're both complete fucking idiots with no interest in social change or understanding.
In closing, go fuck yourselves to death with sharp sticks. Congratulations on being part of the problem, DIAF. That is all.
:?
"K, good, the two of you have succeeded " states the two are a subset of "a certain contingent"
That doesn't state you limited it to the two of them. You have since said it is composed of anyone who agrees with them which is all that was necessary to make it explicit.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2012, 08:43:37 PM
"K, good, the two of you have succeeded " states the two are a subset of "a certain contingent"
That doesn't state you limited it to the two of them. You have since said it is composed of anyone who agrees with them which is all that was necessary to make it explicit.
It seems like that would be implied in this and any similar situation; if I think they are pieces of shit because of their behavior and opinions, then wouldn't it follow that I would also think that anyone who agrees with that behavior and opinions would also be a piece of shit? However, I don't have any evidence to indicate anyone else specifically agrees with them, so I can't explicitly call anyone else out.
"The two of you" would seem, to me, to be specifying them and excluding anyone who is not the two of them. Otherwise, the statement would not be explicit and could be read to include other people I didn't intend for it to include.
But okay.
Also, I wrote that WAY before I said "a certain contingent", so it seems, to me, to be clear that the "contingent" refers back to the earlier post, and not the other way around.
I can understand how you became confused, but I think that accepting the timeline would help clear that up.
Fair enough.